Return to the House Plants Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
yellow edges in leaves

Posted by mina84 26505 (My Page) on
Sat, Jul 19, 14 at 20:41

Hello
I have a plant that I don't know the name, one year ago the leaves started to be yellow some of them died and others just stopped doing that and the plant was fine, but it doesn't grows slowly, few days ago I noticed the same thin, yellow in the edges of some leaves but this time it is faster, in two days lot of leafs became yellow in the edges , I water it when the top inch is dry, and I water until the water go down from the drainage holes,when it stops draining I turn it buck to its place
Could you tell me plz what's going on with my plant, and if you know the name of it
Thank you


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

We will need more photos, but it looks to me like an anthurium hybrid. They are very tricky to grow, they like humidity, and lots of light....they prefer to be moist but not wet. They are an ariod plant. My advice would be to put it in a sunny window, on a tray of pebbles, with water in the peddles to create humidity. You can also try to wick the plant.


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

Thank you very much for your reply, do suggest to cut the yellow leaves?


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

Thank you very much for your reply, do suggest to cut the yellow leaves?


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

Other one


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

Other one


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 12:13

There are 3 common issues that go hand in hand. They are, soil choice, over-watering, and either a high level of soluble salts in the soil solution and/or a fertilizer ratio badly out of balance.

Your problem lies within that short list. The easiest way to fix it is by adopting a soil you can water correctly (so you flush the soil when you water) without it remaining soggy so long you worry about the effects of a lack of air in the root zone or root rot, and then adopting an appropriate fertilizer supplementation program.

The second way, which is less effective, would be to learn how to deal with water-retentive soils. Follow the embedded link to learn more.

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

thank you, should i cut the bad yellow leaves


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 16:54

You can if you like. If the plant was circling the drain, I'd say you shouldn't because they (the leaves) are still making food (for the plant - plants make their own food during photosynthesis), and for that reason the plant needs them; but at this time of the year and given the baseline health of the plant, there's not much reason not to prune them.

Your plant says it wants a lot more light, too.

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

this looks like tulip anthurium hybrid to me.
in short :
the most important thing to do is flush it with lots of water, keep it above 75F in very bright filtered light. and do not let be wet or dry out. it needs even moisture.
peat based soils is good for it - it likes rich/humusy substrate. you can repot it with african violet soil mixed with 30-50% perlite.
here's the long story:
they need bright indirect light, very bright to bloom. early morning sun is very good, but late afternoon sun is ok too, provided it's dappled (moving) so it does not burn the leaves. filtered sun thru sheers is great.
without very good light it will not bloom.
it can take more sun in winter, when the sun is low and weak. don't know where you are, it might not be low...

it needs to be warm, by that i mean it'll grow best at 75F-80F daytime. and don't drop below 65F at nite - it'll rot.
to grow well the nites need to be in low 70s.
you can overwinter it , if you keep it dryer, but it still needs at least 60% humidity. best is at 85% ;).

one way to do it is to put the plant-pot in a very large cache-pot with 3-4 inches of rocks - best if there is 2" free on the sides for evaporation. fill the rocks with water, but not to the top. and put the plant on top.
the big spots on leaves happen due to it being very wet.
you need to pull it out of the pot and dry it up wrapped in paper-towels - on the big unglazed saucer, it'll wick the moisture away.
if you an over-waterer, perhaps putting it in an unglazed clay pot will help - the clay will wick excess moisture.
the narrow yellow on the leaf edges indicates salt build-up/over fertilizing. let it dry up a bit and then flush it sev times with warmish water - lots of water, 4 times the pot size by volume.
always water it with warm water.
they need balanced fertilizer: 15-15-15 is good . you can use osmocote time-release granules on top of soil. there is one that is 14-14-14 for flowers/veggies.
for flowers 15-30-.... formulated for orchids is needed. that is what pro-growers recommend . a lot of them are produced in hawaii.
it's sometimes called hawaiian anthurium.
and yes, i have one and it blooms for me.

Here is a link that might be useful: just one of many hawaiian links


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

oh, forgot to say that for the current size of plant the pot is too big.
you need to actually pull the plant out of the pot and look at the roots/soil. if you see few roots you can just shake off/scrape off around an inch all around and then put it back in for now - this will allow it to dry faster, the plant will be happier. it needs a little time to recover before you do anything else.
when you decide to repot it - that's a whole other story.
this plant does great in self-watering pot.
one of the absolutely best is lechuza pots/system - with proprietary substrate that they sell. you can look into that.
it will make watering a breeze.

This post was edited by petrushka on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 20:56


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 22:01

I wonder how someone can so specifically tell the difference between damage caused by a high level of dissolved solids in the soil and over-watering? I also wonder why 15-15-15 fertilizer or any other 1:1:1 ratio fertilizer is a good choice when plants actually use about 6x more N than P?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

inquiring mind wants to know:
do you grow tulip anturiums?


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 23:16

Not a single one, but I have a keen interest in what other growers base their conclusions on. Most of the plants we grow as houseplants are extremely similar in their wants. Especially when it comes to soils and nutrition. They differ much more in what they will/won't tolerate than in what they actually want.

So how DO we tell the difference between foliage spoiled by a high level of dissolved solids in the soil solution vs that spoiled by over-watering? Both limiting practices elicit the same drought response, so how do we tell the difference? Surely it's not as simple as all marginal necrosis is due to a high level of dissolved solids in the soil solution and all large necrotic spots are due to over-watering, so how do we pin down the actual cause by looking at a picture?

I asked the question about the fertilizer because plants use far more N than P, and the ratio at which they use the nutrients doesn't change because we provide more P than is needed in relation to N. So why SHOULD we provide all that extra P? Wouldn't that be a potential limitation? Excess P DOES unnecessarily contribute to a high level of dissolved solids in the soil solution, increases pH, makes it more difficult for the plant to take up several nutrients (Fe, K, Cu, Ca, Mg, and Z - see "Mulder's chart" for confirmation), all of which point to an excess of P (or any nutrient, for that matter) as not being a good thing.

Also, when you use a fertilizer that has a ratio of nutrients much different than that at which the plant actually uses the nutrients, the ratio of what remains in the soil very quickly becomes grossly skewed from the 1:1:1 ratio you started with, and the longer a grower goes w/o a thorough flushing of the soil, the more badly skewed the ratio becomes, which wreaks havoc with the supplementation program and significantly impacts the entire organism.

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

ok, i know it's not easy to distinguish between over-watering vs salt build up. i watch as i grow and i also read posts of other people that grow. and also a lot of production guides have symptoms/solution lists.
i grow a lot of aroids and so i read specialized forums/society bulletins. and aroideana journals on occasion. these are all very reputable sources.
i also consider amateurs who grow specific plants for many years to be very good sources of practical info.
and i keep careful files as i collect the info.
i can carefully pull all the links to support my recommendations - but i certainly do not see people doing so in support of their advice. i do provide many informative links, but not for every little thing i say.
it's just too time consuming. this is not a horticultural forum or scientific journal, where references are mandatory.
besides, lots of pdfs/papers that come up and are of interest to me would be very boring for most if not all posters here.
and by the way, you do not provide links either or very rarely.


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

now fertilizers....
e.g. the link i provided is for pro-hawaiian growers.
they do use 3-1-2 ratio but only for starts grown in exceptional conditions. then they switch to 1-1-1. for indoors they recommend 20-20-20.
apparently anthuriums being epiphytic are sensitive to hi nitrogen. so monthly flushings are recommended even using low dosages of balanced 1:1:1 ferts.
here's a post from exoticrainforest - clearly a specialist grower that you are familiar with:
Don't over fertilize! Miracle Grow 10-10-10 does fine but if you have an orchid fertilizer with extra additives that works great as well. My preference, based on the advice of expert growers, is 13-13-13 or 14-14-14 but both can be difficult to find.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to erf post


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

this is a quote from U of Fl production guide for anthuriums in general (andreanum hybrids included):
The proper fertilizer level necessary to produce anthurium depends upon production light levels. Fertilizer requirements of Osmocote 19-6-12 was 7-13 gm for good quality 6-inch pots of A. scherzeranum at light levels of 3500 ft-c compared to 1-9 gm at 1000 ft-c.

A level of 5 gm Osmocote 14-14-14 per 6-inch pot was suggested for anthurium grown at 1500-2000 ft-c.
....
as i see it, the 1st recommendation is suitable for outdoor shade light levels,
the last recommendation is suitable for indoors very bright dappled sun for home growers.

Here is a link that might be useful: IFAS - UFL guide


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

and of course i search gw for info too.
there are experienced growers here too, but no recent posts. so this is a blast from the past.
bihai is a very experienced grower with lots of aroids.

Here is a link that might be useful: how bihai fertilizes his anthuriums


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 10:21

So how DO you tell the difference between damage done by high EC/TDS and over-watering? You made the conclusion, but knowing how you arrived at the conclusion would be very helpful.

How can 1:1:1 ratio fertilizers NOT be limiting when we know that both excesses and deficiencies (of nutrients) impose limitations? If they are limiting, that means there are better alternatives. Obviously it can't go both ways.

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

on a practical level:
large oval/round necrotic spots anywhere on the leaf that 1st turn yellow and then dark like on the 1st pic right side - that looks like edema from too much water. had experienced this myself with other aroids and specifically with this type of anthurium.
narrow dark spots on margins/tips outlines with yellow are indicative of salts build up. the yellow rising on the left of the leaf above dark tip in 1st pick; dark tip with yellow margin on 3rd pic. the 2nd pic could be a combo of both conditions.
my educated guess: over-watering WITH salts build-up.
notice i said 'educated guess'. i am not a lab - i just go by description and photo.
i'd be very interested in other grower of similar plants to come in and comment.

i provided the links from respectable sources.
if you were to take time to look thru them and go and talk to people in specialized forums and do some more searching..;) - you'll get your answers.
you're free to query them about their fertilizer recommendations to get your answers. and follow or not their recommendations. that is your personal choice.
i do not take upon myself the responsibility of being an encyclopedia of plant knowledge or be 'know it all'.
if that is your quest - that is nice.
nevertheless i feel free to provide growing tips on this forums for those plants that i grow and grow well, especially when i have additional info from other sources to support my recommendations..
now if you provided a link to research on anthuriums specifically that would be of interest to me. especially if it referenced blooming.
all sources that i so far came across indicate successful blooming with orchid bloom fertilizers like 19-31-17 or similar. some people alternate 2 fertilizers or use TR osmo with liquid combined. that is what i do too.
incidentally my non-stop begonias follow the same pattern.
i also read that A. prefer 50%/50% nitrates/ammonia formulation for N . all nitrate formulation burns their roots.
and they need extra calcium and magnesium (all aroids just love extra mag: epsom salts once a mo).
there was a prior thread that i came across on GW - seems the grower's anthurium was not blooming for a year with just 3:1:2 fertilizer. but after she started alternating 3 diff types including bloom orchid (hi P) with micros it started blooming.

Here is a link that might be useful: what fertilizer to use for A. blooming


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 17:57

According to the sources you offered - Bihai says, "I used to use full strentgh Miracle Grow, which is 15-30-15. [a high P fertilizer] However, in recent times, (ie this season) I have strayed away from MG and am using a special order fertilizer called Peter's Excel 15-5-15 Cal/Mag." [which is a 3:1:3 ratio fertilizer with Ca/Mg - very close to Foliage Pro 9-3-6 with Ca/Mg, a 3:1:2 fertilizer and not even close to an endorsement of 1:1:1 ratio.]

In the 'what fertilizer to use' thread there was 1 vote for a high-P fertilizer, one vote for 'it doesn't matter it's a light issue, one vote specifically for 3:1:2 ratios, and no recommendations for any of the 1:1:1 ratio fertilizers, so I'm not sure how that supports your recommendation.

I wish Steve Lucas (see your ERF link) was here to join the conversation, but unfortunately he isn't. If you search just this forum though, you'll find dozens of posts from Steve that illustrate how he felt about an approach to growing that was based more on science than casual consensus.

"I have spent a great deal of time studying this subject just as Al has, especially with botanists such as Dr. Tom Croat at the Missouri Botanical Garden and many others. I am also well aware that many people on this and other forums prefer that discussions not be based on science since this is a place where the average grower asks questions. I cannot help but believe many of those people want really good answers to their questions so again my thanks to Al."

"Whatever anyone chooses to do is their business. Any grower is entitled to do anything they choose to do but if my email is any indication there are tons of folks out there that want to know how to grow plants as they grow in nature. We receive about 1/2 million hits to our website every year from all over the world and most of them are seeking scientific answers just as Al provides."

"Just a word of thanks for the information [Al]. I have agreed fully with Al's information for many years ....."

~ Steve Lucas
Corresponding Secretary, The International Aroid Society"

Al



 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

You go Al!! I sent you an email also through the forum hopefully it went through. It was a fertilizer question. Sorry if I'm bothering you soo much but I for one trust your advice!! I've read post after post of people you have helped thanking you countless times! Mina84 Al REALLY does know what he's talking about, go look on this forum, container growing forum, cactus and succulent forum (I'm sure he's on more but that's only where I've been) and read ALL the people he has helped. He wouldn't steer you wrong! I hope everything works out for your plant! Good luck to you! :)


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

i specifically posted a quote from steve above from his post. but i guess you chose to ignore it.
i'll repeat it again:
My preference(steve lucas), based on the advice of expert growers, is 13-13-13 or 14-14-14 but both can be difficult to find.

so, he chose to recommend a different ratio. and he was a specialized grower.
you are not. your discourse is theoretical.

i am sticking with hawaiian pro-growers and U of fl advice.


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 22:04

I saw Steve's post and didn't ignore it. My point was, Steve was a reasonable man and as such wouldn't be at all reluctant to listen to reason and then run what he heard or saw here past some of the sources he used for advice and adapt. There is little reason to think that because he agreed with me in virtually all areas where vetted science was important to a well-reasoned outcome, that he would disagree on the point of appropriate fertilizers; and as I pointed out, the rest of the sources you used actually ran counter to your suggestions.

As far as being able to tell the difference between salt damage and over-watering damage by looking at a picture on the internet, the drought response is the same, either way ...... and the first picture is definitely not illustrating symptoms of oedema. Oedema affects individual cells or small clusters of cells and results in a few to many water filled pustules that morph to lots of small ugly spots that might be described as wart-like - not just one large area manifesting proximal margins entire.

My intent was never to elicit change in the way you approach growing. I'm more concerned with how our advice and what we hold to be true impacts the growing experience of others. The fact is, you can't achieve a well-reasoned nutritional supplementation goal using 1:1:1 ratio fertilizers. I'll explain if you want me to.

It's often important that other growers have the opportunity to listen in on growers that disagree, so they get a better feel for which path it would be in their best interest to follow. Thanks for the time you put into your replies and for helping to keep the thread slanted more in the direction of producing light than heat. In case there is anything I said that you disagree with and would like to illustrate where I'm wrong, I'll be at the ready to explain exactly why I offer the advice I do using what we know of science and sound reasoning where it's called for.

Have a good evening and enjoy what remains of the weekend.

LB - thanks for your confidence and the kind words. I'll look for your message - I'm sort of behind in answering my mail & hope to catch up tomo if it rains. ;-)

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

you interpret Steve's recommendations rather freely without giving any references.
a link from international aroid society with research on anthurium ferlilizers:
quote:
Data presented indicate that the lower N and K fertilizer rates tested produced the highest quality plants. Not only was plant appearance improved at the lower fertilizer levels, but also flowering was much better, with increases of 59 to 85 %, depending on cultivar. Lack of early flowering, which lengthens crop turnover time, has been somewhat of a problem with many of the anthurium pot plant cultivars under development. Results from this experiment suggest the flowering problem may possibly be due in part to use of excessive levels of fertilizer, particularly nitrogen. Additional research is needed on these cultivars but based on data presented here, use of 900-1200 lb N/A/yr from a 1-1-1ratio fertilizer such as a liquid 20-20-20 or slow release 14-14-14 Osmocote (The Scotts Company, 665- Grantway, Allentown, PA 18106) would be suggested.

the link is from the following page of IAS:
http://www.aroid.org/horticulture/hortlink.php

Here is a link that might be useful: ifas.ufl research - fert ratios


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 12:32

I don't think I misinterpreted Steve's comments. I think they speak for themselves.

In view of your link, it sort of makes you wonder why Henny (one of your sources) is using 9-3-6 in this test.

In view of this study, ALSO by UFL, (scroll down to 'Fertilizer Ratios' to see their recommendations), even if 1:1:1 ratios are capable of producing results similar to 3:1:2 ratios for this plant - why wouldn't a grower want to reap the several additional advantages inherent in 3:1:2 ratios that are n/a when using 1:1:1 ratios?

To recognize that 1:1:1 ratios cannot even come close to providing nutrients in the same ratio at which plants use them is to recognize the inherent limitations of that ratio. You must either disagree that an excess or deficiency of nutrients represents a limitation, or suggest that plants use nutrients at a ratio of 1:.43:.83, the only way it WOULDN'T represent a limitation. For reference, the ACTUAL average ratio of NPK used by plants is approximately 1:.16:6.2, and that varies only a little from plant to plant. O/A usage varies considerably, but not the ratio.

Our jobs as growers is to reduce or eliminate limiting effects rather than introduce them.

Al

This post was edited by tapla on Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 13:25


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

that was a good link, but it was for 'foliage plant production'.
a very good list of foliage plants to consult. thanks.
yes, anthurium is on the list - as there are many anthuriums in foliage category.
A.andreanum hybrids (including tulip anthurium in discussion) are grown for flower production however. and all my posts and links are specifically for that.
the above study link from IAS is for flowering anthuriums.
why would i want to use the fertilizer that decreases my flowering by 59-85%?
so, i will still take IAS recommendation of 1:1:1 ratio.
i consider IAS a well informed source and authority on the matter.


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

i looked at henny link : that was an experiment with GA for increased flower production from starts to bloom - at high light levels. which are not indoor conditions at home.
apparently there is a difficulty with delayed/reduced flower production with 3:1:2 (which was that IAS link study).
in my very early link quote - see hawaiian link-
they also use 3-1-2 ratio but only for starts grown in high-light conditions. then switch to 1-1-1 for flower production.
but for indoors lower light consumer conditions they recommend 20-20-20 steady.
this is houseplant discussion after all.


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a mid-MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 27, 14 at 21:59

I repeat: To recognize that 1:1:1 ratios cannot even come close to providing nutrients in the same ratio at which plants use them is to recognize the inherent limitations of that ratio. You must either disagree that an excess or deficiency of nutrients represents a limitation, or suggest that plants use nutrients at a ratio of 1:.43:.83, the only way it WOULDN'T represent a limitation. You can't have it both ways.

Our jobs as growers is to reduce or eliminate limiting effects rather than introduce them.

Al


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

and i repeat : i recognize IAS as an authority as far growing aroids. not you. especially since you do not grow them.


 o
RE: yellow edges in leaves

Hi Mina,

I just wanted to stop in and say that I hope you can gain some helpful Information from some of the post here!!!

Just in case you haven't read this thread, I have linked it and it may help you!!

Sometimes things get so technical and it is hard to understand what everyone is trying to say.. I realize you just wanted answers to your yellowing leaves ..

Try and eliminate what might be wrong as others mentioned up thread. Soil choice , watering, light, fertilizer . That will be a start for you. Then you can figure out what type of mix will suit your needs as well as your fertilizer.

So many have opinions about fertilizers.. It really can make your head spin!! Lol.. I'm really serious. I have a lot of different trees and plants, but I don't grow what you have.. So I'm just trying to give some basic helpful info.

My trees that I focus on are Plumeria.. These are the trees that are made into leis in Hawaii. I grow many exotic trees that are native to Hawaii , Mexico. Thailand etc. I live in Virgina!! far different from Others that grow my favorites in California , Texas and Florida. I have always had to work hard to achieve the best in the growing season to get the overall health of my trees as they come out of dormancy. My trees have a great fast draining mix.. Learned from these forums.. ( see link) My trees have never been so healthy and I have beautiful blooms from these trees that take years to flower. ( Which is normal when they are first rooted.) .Even for those growing in California !! I also use Foliage pro ( 9-3-6). It really is all that my trees need to have beautiful healthy blooms.. It's has the perfect balance for all of my trees as well as others that I grow. The best compliment I can receive is when the experts who grow these ( godfathers of plumeria) who have written books etc compliment me on my growing ability to grow in my limited growing season...

I just want you to hear from someone like me who started out looking for answers.. I did some research, did a few experiments ( fertilizers too) and came up with my way of growing that makes my trees the healthiest and the best that I have seen in years. My trees are mature and are blooming like they would be in the tropics..

Keep reading and asking questions.. You will find such wonderful information. Don't get frustrated .. Growing is such a wonderful experience and I want you to know it can be easy !

Your plants will thank you for taking time to understand their needs.. Once I started with the basics.. Soil and then added the best fertilizer for my trees as well as for my blooming trees.. They haven't stopped. Every year I say this is my best year and I am overwhelmed with the beauty I see ..

It will happen... Please continue to ask and you will have your answers In The way your plants respond. Watching them grow and flourish is the best reward you can receive from your knowledge of what they like and need to be healthy.

Al has really been a great teacher and I'm thankful for all that he shares...

Sorry to break in.. Just wanted to say a few things to help you. Please dont get discouraged.. Growing is a wonderful thing and your plants will love you for the time you take to understand their needs... Mine did and still thank me everyday with new flowers!!

Mahalo!!!

Here is a pic for you, Mina!! This is one that just opened up a few days ago!!

Just wanted you to know that others read these post and we are here to help you too ! ;-)

Have a wonderful night!!!

Laura

Here is a link that might be useful: Good Growing Pratices- An Overview For Beginners


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the House Plants Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here