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Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Posted by amccour (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 28, 10 at 11:49

I finally got around to repotting that huge Afrocarpus gracillior cluster I bought last year, and in the process I noticed it has scale. I wouldn't say it's a huge infestation since you sort of have to hunt around for them, but it's definitely present.

The problem is, Afrocarpus gracillior looks sort of like this:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/conif/msg1218194427871.html

Not my plant, but you get the general idea. Big, fluffy, and about a million little strap-like leaves. Getting good coverage with some sort of topical spray seems like it would be somewhere between Sisyphean and just outright hopeless.

I'd just as soon not get rid of the plants because I rather like them and it's not really a bad scale infestation, as I said, but I'm not too keen on it spreading to my other plants, either.

So I'm wondering if there's some sort of systemic or something that I coukd try. I have some neem spray although I'm not sure if that's concentrated enough to work (and I was also under the impression that it worked better as a system for insects that actually ate the leaves instead of biting/sucking one like scales..?)

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 28, 10 at 15:08

Contact me off forum for info.

Al


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Why off forum, Al?
I'm sure others would be interested in your answer!
I know that I'm interested.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Scale is hard to get rid of, especially on very leafy plants. Scale is slow, but it will infect your other plants eventually. If it's a valuable plant, my best mode of defense has always been to cut it back severely, if the plant will tolerate such treatment. For a few scale, rubbing alcohol and a Q-Tip are the most effective (removing them manually). But for a large-scale infestation, you must be aggressive. If the plant is not valuable, I would trash it to save the other plants you have.

Ficus are bad about getting scale. I have cut valuable Ficus back to almost the soil level, then treated the soil and leafless trunk for a few weeks. The plant will regrow and the scale is gone. With lots of leaves and limbs, there are just too many places for scale to hide. I prefer natural treatments and use a mix with pure Neem Oil. Neem Oil can harm your plants if overused, but it is quite effective for any parasites on plants. You can also use food-grade diatomaceous earth as a maintenance after getting rid of the scale. Diatomaceous earth is harmless to plants, animals and people (just don't breathe too much of it as it can be an irritant).


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 31, 10 at 22:31

I generally don't suggest chemicals on the forum unless they're close to impossible to abuse, but I'd be glad to share off forum.

I do use neem oil often when I have a problem, but it's slow at getting rid of scale. I have found the Q-tip/alcohol thing an exercise in futility. For every beastie bug you nix, there are 100 waiting in the wings that you can't see. It makes the grower feel like he/she's doing something, but in the o/a scheme of things it's pretty much wasted effort. That's been my experience - YMMV.

Al


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Might be a wasted effort on your part, but it never has been for me. When you think you already know it all above anyone else, then what is the point of this forum and sharing? I have shared my life with plants for over 30 years. I have many very valuable plants, and many commonly-available plants. I do whatever I can to be sure they have the best care. Neem Oil is very effective if used properly. Alcohol is very effective to get rid of visible scale in small numbers. The potting mix must also be treated to kill off larvae and any unseen. It is a process and very few things have immediate effect.


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Scale

By the way, there is also a mixture of water, white vinegar, and dish soap which can be effective. I forget the ratio of the mix, but will find it if you are interested. The one time I used chemicals to treat thrips (which is very difficult to erradicate and very damaging to plants in a short time), I lost some irreplaceable plants. Being dilligent, checking plants often, and maintenance parasite control is the best method. But, even that fails at times. If you have plants, at some point you will get bugs on them.

There are no experts in any field. Even the people considered experts always have something new to learn. Forums are for sharing our ideas and experiences. What works for one person may not work for another. I have learned a lot over the years from people sharing what they do. I can do the same thing, modify it, or discard it, but I have gained knowledge. That is the point.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

In this *particular* case manually removing the scale would be an exercise in futility given the size and shape of the plants. If I was dealing with a columnar cactus or something more open that I actually had good access to, it'd be different. But I don't, unfortunately.

Also the plant was pretty stressed prior to me repotting it (had I known how badly underpotted it actually was I would've done that sooner) so hopefully better conditions will help things out just by means of improved plant vitality.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Sep 1, 10 at 10:21

Ahem - I DID share my experience - just as you did. I didn't chastise you for giving bad information, or say you were wrong. I simply stated my experience, which is that "I have found the Q-tip/alcohol thing an exercise in futility" and went on to mention why I have found that to be true. I didn't say my opinion was more valuable than yours - all I wish is an opportunity to express it. I find it odd that you would allow room for your opinion and not that of another. I suppose I could better understand it had I awarded myself the luxury of an opinion w/o the inconvenience of thought, but I think what I said actually sounds reasonable.

It's difficult to argue with the fact that if you battle scale and mealybugs with a Q-tip, you're only knocking down a small fraction of the population.

Let me assure you I'm not laying title to being expert, but there ARE experts in EVERY field, though experts are usually continually learning.

Al


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

This is actually why I stopped visiting GW about 5 years ago, due to others who want to batttle anyone else who has an opinion. We find other places to share our opinions in peace.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I often observe the combative nature of GardenWeb. Why is it so necessary for anyone to be the dominant poster? I happen to know Philofriend and this person has a great deal of knowledge. They are also in contact on a daily basis with some of the finest aroid growers in the world including some that have collections that make anything in the United States look paltry!

There are many ways to approach a problem and it is absolutely without any merit for anyone to immediately chastise others for their input. It may not be perfect but this is a plant discussion group. The purpose to is "discuss" ideas.

I have studied aroids for the last 15 years and when I say study I am talking about in the very serious sense attempting slowly to earn a PhD. I am an officer of the International Aroid Society and if I offer advice it will be well researched advice, not just my opinion. Yet, when I offer scientifically verified information or post a link to good information I often read posts to the effect "don't read that". It is as if I have no right on GardenWeb to offer my opinion and research for others to consider.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, consider the tone of your communication. If you are absolutely 100% positive you are right and everyone else is wrong post a scientific link to back up what you are saying. People come here to learn, not to be lectured..........and I will immediately admit some of my posts ten to run toward lecture. But when I do that I am normally quoting scientific information in order to make the point.

I find the conversation far more useful on several other forums since people will "discuss" not claim to be the only expert in the world! Even though I have numerous contacts with the top botanists in the world as a result of my studies I have never once claimed to be an "expert". And I never will. I am a student botany and even though I am in my mid 60's and own one of the largest collections of rare aroids in the united States will never tell anyone there is only one way to do anything.

Two years ago my atrium with over 300 rare species of aroids suddenly became infected with scale. On the advice of the Missouri Botanical Garden I began using Canola Oil (2 tablespoons per gallon of water) with about one half teaspoon of Pyrethrin (a plant product) mixed into the mix of one gallon of water. We sprayed every third day for two months and the scale has been gone for a long time. I do sometimes find a few on a single large leafy plant (most of my plants are large and leafy) but there is no major infection. It just comes back into the atrium from Mother Nature from time to time.

Don't think this will work? Then give me a scientific reason why. I didn't make it up, it came from the aroid botanists (the best in the world) at the Missouri Botanical Garden. Want to ask them for yourself.......send me a PM and I'll give you email addresses to both them and the top aroid growers on the planet.

Don't think I own a very large collation of aroids? Just dare to click on the link and look at the photos one single page, you don't have to read anything. Do I expect anyone to do that? Not on your life! But I can prove with publicly collected internet data around 1/2 million visitors every year read my research on the net and send me notes thanking me for helping to solve their tropical plant problems.

Be nice to others, listen closely to what they offer and think about it before shooting back a response that may totally turn them off to growing. Consider the fact they may know something! Just because we may know something that works well for us does not always mean it is the best way to approach the problem.

Please forgive me Al, I do not mean this to be offensive in any way. I know for certain you know what you are talking about on many subjects. I've read you posts in detail, especially the lengthy post of soil mixes. You teach almost precisely what I try to explain......information I gained from botany professors and 8 personal friends that are among the best aroids botanists in the world. But in some of your responses to me you make it pretty obvious I don't know anything! Have you ever bothered to look into my background? Are you aware I have traveled to rain forest around the world to see and learn this stuff? Do you know how many magazine articles I have written for major publications? Believe me, I am just like my friend here. I am totally ready to abandon this site in favor of those where people prefer to discuss and become friends rather than try to prove no one else knows anything!

We are here to talk and learn!

Steve Lucas
www.ExoticRainforest.com

Corresponding Secretary
The International Aroid Society
www.Aroid.org

Now, go right ahead and skewer me. I can see at least three people standing in the wings to do just that right now!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Exotic Rainforest atrium in Arkansas of all places!


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Thanks, Steve! I wrote down the solution you got from MOBot for scale treatment. I haven't seen scale for a couple years at my house, but since some of my plants summer outdoors, the possibility always exisits. In the past, I have had thrips and mealy bugs, but scale is the one that repeatedly shows up from time to time, as you said.

I never mean to come across like I know everything, and I most certainly do not. Steve knows MUCH more than me, and I have gained a lot of valuable information from him and his website.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

- In terms of spray stuff, I've tried various things, all of which have been mentioned. I've generally found neem to be the most effective, although the other things have worked to (especially since I sometimes have a hard time actually finding neem).

- In regards to the q-tip + rubbing alcohol thing, I did that with a scale infestation on my sans. It worked fine. I've also used q-tips + Crisco to eliminate whitefly, so spot treatments like that DO work in some situations.

- Additionally, I don't doubt one bit that your spray worked fine on your aroids. They have large, broad leaves, typically, and it's easy to get good coverage.

- The plant that *I'm* talking about, however, is basically a dense mat of long, incredibly narrow leaves, which hang down, and its branches also exhibit a weeping habit, meaning that:

A) Anything I spray on pretty much runs off.
B) Given how dense the foliage is anyway, I couldn't get good coverage anyway
C) And, again, given the dense foliage, getting at anything productively with a q-tip would be essentially hopeless.

In my particular case, a systemic seems like the best workable solution.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

The spray I use works almost on contact. The mixture of oil and Pyrethrin prevent the insect from breathing and is capable of doing the same for most eggs. If you wet it well, it will work. I also grow many pendent leaf aroids with long thin blades as well as a variety of ferns and other plants that grow precisely as you described.

The mix I use is available on the net for $36 per quart bottle but you can easily mix it yourself. Since I use it every season for the small amount that manages to come into the atrium from outside I make it up one quart at a time but that quart bottle will last me 2 seasons and I've got tons of plants.

Be sure you mix it in advance and then use a small amount to make up a one gallon sprayer. Be sure and mix thoroughly. A small bottle of Pyrethrin can be bought in a farm store for under $6 and will last for 10 years. A bottle of Canola oil (one quart) is less than $2. Mix about one tablespoon of the Pyrethrin into the entire bottle of Canola oil and shake well every time you use it.

Put a couple of Tablespoons of the concentrate in a one gallon sprayer and mix it with warm water. Shake well as you spray. Mark your bottle well so you don't cook with it! When I make up a quart it will last more than two seasons in my atrium. I use the same stuff if I see anything suspicious. The oil and Pyrethrin make it impossible for an insect to breathe and it will die in minutes.

The entire spray mix will vanish into the atmosphere in an hour or two leaving no serious trace.

I know tons of members of the aroid society that use this with great success but if you prefer another method it is only presented as an option. If you choose to try it use it persistently until all chance of any living eggs is gone.

Steve


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

We need people like you to share your knowledge and experience here in the Gardenweb. I, for one, would be greatly disappointed if you (Steve and philofriend) thought that your opinions didn't matter here. They do. No one likes a "it's my way or the highway" attitude. But I honestly and truly don't think that Al came across that way earlier. I really don't. At least not this time, lol!

philofriend, you said that you used DE as a 'maintenance after getting rid of scale'. What do you mean by that? Am curious, not challenging. I've used DE and have recommended it often for soil borne pests like fungus gnat larvae, sowbugs, millipedes and other crawly things that find their way into container. Do you use/apply it as a spray?

Regarding the Q-tip issue. Have you ever used alcohol in a misting bottle to treat for scale, mealybugs, and others? I ditched the Q-tips once I learned how well that worked. Alcohol is an effective miticide, too.

Dorie


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

You are absolutely correct Dorie and I do apologize to Al.

I was mostly referring to several posts I've tried to make with good explanations based in science "why" something is happening or not happening. When I read "I won't read that" or "Don't read that" I often wonder why? What is wrong with information, even if it does not match my or anyone else's current beliefs?

Botanical scientists learn new things almost daily. Just yesterday two of the very best explained why the number of Anthurium species will soon jump from the currently accepted 800 species to over 1500. They also explained why the currently accepted number of aroids will jump from 3600 to over 6000 species in at least 119 genera. Science grows and changes daily as we learn new things.

I am blessed to be in close communication with quite a few of them and have new papers end up in my mail box almost every week. Does that make me an "expert", absolutely not! It just makes me very curious to learn new information that was not previously known. I learn new things by reading the 200 plus PDF scientific books and documents i now have on my computer. Sometimes you can come up with amazing revelations that differ from what most of us have already been lead to accept. Just because it is accepted in horticulture does not mean it is accurate.

When I first began to post on this forum 5 years ago I was immediately "attacked" for trying to explain something any first year botany student learns. The same person attacked every single thing I posted for over two years so I finally quit only to later learn they had been expelled from the site.

Many times since then the same thing has happened and it appears some have the opinion their advice is the only valid advice even if it totally differs with botanical science.

I assure you I don't post it without researching it first, often by sending an email to the top botanist in that particular field. Growers learn a lot by growing but casual observations are only that. Casual observations. Botanical science can often truly explain why what we "thought" we saw did not happen at all.

Again, my sincere apologies to Al or anyone else offended by what I try to explain. I just would very much like for this and any other forum to invite ideas and discuss them in an effort to seek the truth before rejecting them.

Thanks again for reminding me.

Steve


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I use DE as a maintenance for any bug that might want to invade my plants, not specifically for scale (I should have said that before). I also put DE in my dogs food and rub it into their fur to prevent fleas and such. DE also has trace minerals, and that could be an added benefit to our plants.

I just get a pinch between my fingers and scatter it over the soil and leaves. Rain or watering will wash it into the soil/potting mix. I have also mixed about 1/4 tsp into a 32-oz spray bottle, shake well, and sprayed it onto my plants. It does leave a white residue on the leaves, which washes off easily. DE is completely natural and non-harmful.

I started using DE about 10 years ago when I was doing research on feeding my chickens better. I always added DE into their food to prevent internal parasites.

I don't spout DE as the best or most effective way to get rid of any parasite. My biggest problem, especially starting at this time of year, is fungus gnats. The DE seems to keep them in smaller numbers. Just last night I sprinkled DE on all my outside plants which are preparing to come indoors for the winter. I am also going to spray them with the mix Steve mentioned above. I have a lot of different Ficus species, as well as some citrus plants, and they seem to be the worst about harboring scale.


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DE and Alcohol

I don't use DE often on the plants, maybe once or twice a year. Usually just when I am preparing to bring them indoors for the winter.

I haven't used alcohol in a spray bottle. I have used both white and apple cider vinegar for various reasons (not always parasite related). Knock on wood, I haven't seen any sign of scale for over a year on any of my plants.

I move my plants around a lot and I just make a habit of checking them over during moving and/or watering.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Sep 1, 10 at 15:13

I offered my experience and mentioned why the method is ineffective. Period. I didn't insult anyone or call anyone out. No one has argued with the reasoning, they've just expressed their displeasure because I didn't agree, or because I dared to even offer an opinion. Gee, I would think your energies would be better spent trying to find something (not anecdotal) to support the position that Q-tips and alcohol are indeed effective weapons against scale/mealybug instead of chastising me. You'll notice that others have also expressed reservations about the effectiveness of that method? Perhaps we should all remain silent and hold our opinions so they don't clash with someone else's?

Didn't you just say, "Be nice to others, listen closely to what they offer and think about it before shooting back a response that may totally turn them off to growing. Consider the fact they may know something! Just because we may know something that works well for us does not always mean it is the best way to approach the problem."?

Al


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Steve, I think I just may know who you might be talking about, causing some real problem in the forums quite some time ago. I hope you know that you weren't the only one!!

I used DE for my dog, as well, philofriend. Something that some people don't realize (I'm sure that you do) is that DE does not dissolve in water. It can even be applied in a sprayer, though I never recommend that it be used widely in an outdoor setting. Too many beneficials.

Al....calm down, already.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Why are we stuck on Q-tips and alcohol? They truly are effective at removing visible scale on plants. I never stated they were the tried and true, or only, method of removing scale. There are many effective means to remove scale. Even your fingernails work. For big plants and a lot of scale - no, that method is worthless.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Sep 1, 10 at 16:37

Dori - There were several posts added between the time I started and finished my previous post (called away briefly) that I didn't see. I was only pointing out that opinion sharing is a two-way street. There was no reason whatsoever for anyone to have attacked me.

Al


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diatomaceous earth

You are correct, rhizo. I don't apply DE to any plants that remain outdoors, as I don't want to harm any beneficial insects. During the summer, I don't treat my tropicals that are outside with anything at all. I let nature take care of it herself.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Many say that certain things works for others..

Well, FE works for my plants..Those that I spray with FE every week as a foliar, come in bug free without hurting the beneficials..

MIke


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Just as a follow-up. I don't like alcohol and swabs either. I once had a volunteer working in atrium and she wanted to try it on a few of my rare specimens when she found a few scale. Until the leaves died they still had white "stains" caused by the apparent destruction of chlorophyll as a result of the alcohol.

I'll never use it again.

Steve


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Steve, don't feel bad. You aren't the only one attacked and insulted by the 'All Knowing.'

I make a mix of alcohol, canola oil, dawn soap and cinnamon oil in a spray bottle. I use it on scale and various other insects on my orchids. I use the Q-tip method when there are only a few but use the spray on heavier infestations. I buy the cinnamon oil in any health-food store. The spray actually smells good and safe around children/pets and doesn't seem to harm beneficials. Plants with bad infestations get trashed.

Amncor, the Bayer systemic for roses also works. Many orchid growers use it with success. For such a large plant, it might be the best way.

This forum should be open for all without insult or attack. It is important to stay and share your experiences. Nothing about growing plants is cut in stone. There are too many variables to growing well. There are no magic bullets.

Good luck,
Jane


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Jane, is there a Bayer product for roses that is labeled for container or indoor use? I've only found their rose systemic and it's clearly labeled for outdoor residential only.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Cinnamon is also a great anti fungal and is commonly used by a number of the best growers I know. Many growers take Amorphophallus tubers and lightly coat them with cinnamon before storing for the winter.

A very close friend in Hawaii that owns the largest private collection of extremely rare plants I am aware of uses cinnamon for all sorts of things including any damage to any plant. That particular grower was written up in Martha Stewart Living last year for the quality of his own collection as well as the multiple major botanical gardens he has personally designed.

We all need to be listening to people like him and I often quote him on my own website while sharing his multiple years of knowledge acquired while working in Brazil and South America.

Thanks for the mix. I know many things work so the choice is only to find the right one that works for your situation and needs.

Now we are discussing.

Steve


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I have never heard of using cinnamon before. I will have to look into that. I also grow orchids. It's early and I have already learned something new today!

I haven't used alcohol and Q-tips for years, but I only used it to remove visible scale from the stems, not the leaves. I no longer use it, preferring gentler methods. But it does work. Are there better methods? Yes.

Growing plants is a learning process over a lifetime. I read and research all the time, and I have tried various things I hear or read about to see if they are effective. I have also used apple cider vinegar and water sprayed on my seedlings to prevent damping off. Did it work? I can't say as I am careful about soil mixes, humidity and ventilation anyway. I heard about a mix of water, dish soap and white vinegar to prevent bugs. I tried it. Didn't harm the plants and I didn't have bugs. But I didn't have bugs anyway, except those darn fungus gnats.

I have been using DE around my newly sprouted Ficus seedlings as the fungus gnats were trying to have a party in the flats. The DE seems to be working effectively. My seedlings look great and the gnats are gone.

I am glad we can get along. We all love to share our experiences and knowledge without fear of being attacked.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I've heard that Orchids are one type of plant for which cinnamon *might not* be recommended,
in that it could impair root-growth (if I recall correctly). Although it's hearsay, I thought I'd add
that caveat to the mix of advice.

I, too, use Diatomaceous Earth around my peppers plants in the garden. I think it works well.

Fastest way to get rid of fungus gnats is to limit the organics in the mix - namely, Peat Moss.
I haven't seen a gnat since I've swtiched to bark-based mixes.

Josh


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Amazing..

That is what I love about the forums....

You get to pick and choose a method that works for you, and ignore other other ideas..Freedom of the forums..

No one here might be willing to try my FE method, and yet my local friends do and they have bug free plants too..
At least this works for me and I am happy with that even though no one has even given it consideration here..:-)\\

Mike


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

amccour,
I hope you get your plant bug free. I looked at the pic. that's a neat looking plant!

Hi Mike!
I'm afraid too! We've talked about it. Goober gets a little too happy! LOL!

I do have a plant outside being attacked by something..I will give it a try. :) also heard onion and garlic mix works. ;)

I'm not to fond of the Q-tip method either. I'm currently fighting with mealy bugs and much prefer to spray my plants. Get's it in every nook! Which was suggested to me by a top greenhouse here for cactus and succulents.

Josh,
I too have heard cinnamon is not good on orchids for the same reasons as you.

And did find the DE and am starting to use it on all my inside plants.

No more fungus knats.. now that my plants are in the right mix. ;)(a huge thanks to a few friends here.) ;)

JoJo


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Josh, because I am always curious I contacted Steve Marak, the president of one orchid group I am aware of. This was his response regarding using cinnamon as an anti-fungal on orchids:

"That would be a surprise to a lot of orchid growers who use cinnamon as an anti fungal because they are trying to avoid more toxic (and expensive) fungicides."

He promised he would contact other orchid groups to see what their response might be and I will let you know what they say. I grow over 150 orchids and have used it personally many times so if it is harmful I want to know.

I do know it is recommended on many tropical plant species since it is both effective and inexpensive.

Steve


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Cinnamon and orchids, info from Hawaii

I just received this link via email. The article includes the use of cinnamon on orchids and was written by Scot Mitamura, Orchid Horticulturist for the Honolulu Botanical Gardens.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Cinnamon and orchids


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Thanks, Steve.
On the Hoya Forum, I recommended cinnamon be applied to fresh cuts to fight rot,
but was cautioned that for Orchids it might affect root-growth...

I use cinnamon frequently, however.

I'll ask my grandpa about it, and report back. He grows a great many orchids, as well as hoyas.

Josh


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Jojo, you goober is a goober for sure..lololol

If he is going to chase you around like that after spraying, then I would hold off..lol

Hi Josh!

Mike


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Hey, Mike! Howdy, JoJo!

Mike, I was considering an FE (Fish Emulsion) spray, but I don't have any pests at the moment.
I'm worried that the lingering scent and over-spray will attract raccoons (who already have their way
with the containerized maples in the area where I keep my citrus).
You know how much I love to war against the raccoon....

Josh


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Cinnamon is used by orchid growers. Josh you are correct that it should not be used on the roots. It is used for fungal problems on the leaves or pseudobulbs, or for any cuts or damage to the plant. It inhibits growth so it should not be used on roots.

I found the cinnamon oil in Mrs. Greens and Trader Joes. It is pure oil of cinnamon and easier to use in sprays than the powder. I use my concoction on all my plants, indoor or out. I've sprayed it on vegetable plants without any problem. It smells so good!

I try to use organic mixes as I have pets and children around. I also spend time working to attract birds and beneficial insects.

Rhizo, the OP has a photo of tree which appears to grow outside. Bayer should not be used indoors. Orchid growers with greenhouses or who grow outdoors use it for scale. However, I have read some that some people do use it on their plants over summer and bring their plants in for winter. Scale frustration drives some people to do some dangerous things. One person actually sprayed their orchid with Raid and covered the plant with a large plastic bag. Said it killed them all.

If you live long enough, you hear it all...

Jane


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

The tree in the picture isn't an Afrocarpus gracilior or my personal plant. It's just a related podocarp that looks similar.

Also, yeah, in warmer areas you see A. Gracilior and P. Macrophylla grown as landscaping trees where they get pretty tall, although they also do relatively well indoors and tolerate pretty heavy pruning (and generally double as hedges down south, I guess).

Also Bayer/various other companies produce a for-houseplants version of the product that I think you're talking about that... either uses a lower concentration of the active ingredient or a less toxic chemical -- I'm not sure which. Container does say for houseplants, though.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I know its called, Bayer Advanced for Roses. It has to contain a chemical whose name I can't remember but it starts with an 'Im..." There are other types of Bayer, but the one which works well on scale has that chemical. I think Bayer has a patent on the chemical. It is a systemic.

Sorry about the mistake. Thought it was an outdoor plant.

Jane


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RE: An Expert is.......

... someone who is at least 1000 miles away from home! This can qualify most of us as "Experts".
There is no expert in any field because experts are continuously expanding their knowledge and the person who knows everything will never (want to) learn anything.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I couldn't find Bayer's product but I did find another product which contained Imidacloprid in roughly the same amounts, so it's not patented by them, I guess...

Anyway, it was a granular thing instead of a soil drench/spray, and it said to re-apply every 6 to 8 weeks, if I remember correctly, but I'm wonder how long till it should start taking affect. I think it's been in for about a week now and I still see a lot of scales.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Steve, I heard ack from my grandpa. Unfortunately, he didn't have much to add.
He said he doesn't use cinnamon, but he thought I should write my dissertation on the subject ;)


Josh


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

As you should have. Sharing information is very important.

Steve


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

amccour, that is the chemical. Couldn't remember the name. I think it takes a while before the chemical moves up in the leaves.

I had a problem with boxwoods and it was identified as leaf-miner. I had large boxwood hedges and the leaves were turning brown, falling off. The 'expert' told me to apply Bayer Advance. These were obviously outdoor shrubs, and I was told it would take until Spring to see the effect. I don't know if that would apply to all trees.

Good luck,
Jane


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I'm an avid orchid grower and a few odds and ends thrown in. I use cinnamon for all cuts and 'rotting' spots or damage spots. Cinnamon will burn orchid roots.

I don't care to spray for anything. It just goes everywhere and then there are the airborne particles to contend with. I go with a drench. I use Merit 75, which is expensive but will last me a lifetime. I use it as a drench. 1/8 teaspoon to a gallon of water and drench the soil/medium. Now, I have used it on orchids and hoyas and succulents. But not on anything else.

This year, I will be applying it to all my plants which will include the arrow leaf plant, table palms, coffee plant, bird of paradise, and a few others (sorry I have no specific names for my plants). I also relate this as I do not know if there are plants sensitive to this product.

I drench by watering the plants medium/soil once a week for three weeks in a row and an extra week if I have mealies. The plants take the product up through their roots and into all parts. The insect bites and takes the toxin into its system and dies. You don't have to worry that you have not 'gotten' all the parts nor do you have to worry about scale on the roots or hidden on the plant. No dripping leaves, or wet walls/floors or airborne particles. All in one place - the soil and IN the plant.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Did you find that it is safe for indoor use? Growing orchids is always a constant battle with scale.

Jane


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

And Cattleyas I think are the worse for scale! I am in the process of debugging now with Merit 75. Last week they and the bugs got a drink and this week will be no different - and for two more weeks thereafter. Just one application in the soil each week.

Just like watering them only add Merit 75 to that water. The excess water goes out the drain holes and to where ever it is you drain your extra water to. I believe its original use was for turf grass. Its the same ingredient that is used for cat and dog products.

I find it the easiest and cleanest way to be rid of mealies and scale. No hiding places and no repotting necessary.


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

I've looked at it but never tried it. Might be a possiblity but I worry about children with plants indoors. My granddaughter loves to wipe the 'honey dew' off the Catts and Dends and lick it. It's delicious and tastes like sweet honey. She loves to visit the orchids and get her treat.

I'm struggling with an Odont which got infested without my realizing it. Might just toss it but I've had it for years and it was given to me by an old-time grower who is no longer with us. I'm been spraying it with alcohol and my oil concoction. I'm losing the battle.

Jane


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

Sorry to bother.....very very new to enjoying house plants. Am very good at killing them, but thats the problem. I have this plant that I believe is "Schleffera"...not sure...will post additional pic immediately after....2 questions...is this scale and is it treatable /do I give up based on plant type.....and if so,,can you recommend something. I need a plant that is about 4+ feet tall and can soften the stone fireplace. my house is very dry and usually 70+ degrees....sorry for the obvious green-ness I possess (pun intended)..thanks ....gene


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RE: Treating scale on large, very-leafy plants?

This is the plant.

Thanks for any advice...from the above message..
Posted by Eugene10 none (My Page) on Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 22:24


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