|
| Hello!
I received this money tree as a gift about 6 years ago. It started out with 5 braided trunks, about 15" tall, in a 4" pot. Over time it grew quite nicely, up to about 2-1/2' This spring I noticed that the new growth at the top of one of the trunks had become extremely stunted. I had intended to re-pot anyway, and, when I did, found that that trunk had indeed rotted. I removed the rotted trunk; the root ball left behind from the other four trunks seemed extremely healthy... Unfortunately I had yet to discover this forum, because it would have helped me to avoid making the following mistakes when I re-potted the four remaining trunks: - potting up - 'wrong' soil = fast draining popular brand mix + vermiculite - failure to prune the roots - over watering, due to the nature of the soil Anyway, I'm sure the more experienced growers reading this can predict what happened next: Explosive healthy growth for the first few months followed by a return to a "state of continual decline ". For the last few weeks I've been observing the plant in this state, and it reminded me too much of what I saw from it prior to finding the trunk with the root rot. So, I decided to re-pot.
Current state of things after a few days:
Anyway, I've attached a pic of the black stipple on the leaves. I have more pics but could not figure out how to post multiple pics. I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes so I would love for anyone to give me some feedback so I don't repeat them. The plant was fairly healthy to begin so I suspect it will rebound, hopefully the root pruning and new medium will have positive results. Any advice or encouragement that anyone would care to give would be much appreciated, prayers too because I really love this plant and don't want to lose it! Thanks a lot! Greg |
Follow-Up Postings:
|
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Fri, Aug 17, 12 at 20:29
| Hey, Greg! I'd say move it back to where it was (as long as it's indoors). Now that you've gotten it into porous mix, you'll want it to start making energy to repair roots and leaves. While the plant is recovering, keep the mix moist...don't wait for it dry out. In the Winter, After two weeks, resume fertilizing the plant. Start with a half strength dose.
Josh |
|
| Hi Josh, Thanks for your reply. Thankfully the propagating leaves seem to be doing quite well still. These are still in a spot that gets only in-direct sunlight. Think I should leave them there? At some point I hope I will need some advice about next steps for turning these propagating leaves into actual trees! Thanks again for your help! Greg |
|
- Posted by StewartsJon none (My Page) on Sat, Aug 18, 12 at 13:39
| It's amazing you've kept it alive so long. We used to use this in offices and they were so unreliable we gave up. |
|
- Posted by theficuswrangler 9b (My Page) on Sat, Aug 18, 12 at 13:53
| Money trees can be finicky, in my experience. I have one now that's been in the same pot/soil for 3 or 4 years -you're giving me inspiration to repot it. It looks like your new potting medium is way more porous than the old stuff. I agree with the advice to keep it moist for now - it has to develop alot of new roots. I would put a dilute mix of high-phosphorous fertilizer on it,(high middle number, good for roots as well as flowers,)no more than once a month. And then be patient - it may drop most of its leaves, but you should see new growth at the top. You might try pruning back one of the trunks if it gets bare, and try rooting that. If that experiment goes well, you might want to prune back all, or some, of the others to create a pleasing shape. And once it's growing well, let it dry between waterings - being too wet is probably what rotted your first trunk. |
|
- Posted by theficuswrangler 9b (My Page) on Sat, Aug 18, 12 at 14:26
| Money trees can be finicky, in my experience. I have one now that's been in the same pot/soil for 3 or 4 years -you're giving me inspiration to repot it. It looks like your new potting medium is way more porous than the old stuff. I agree with the advice to keep it moist for now - it has to develop alot of new roots. I would put a dilute mix of high-phosphorous fertilizer on it,(high middle number, good for roots as well as flowers,)no more than once a month. And then be patient - it may drop most of its leaves, but you should see new growth at the top. You might try pruning back one of the trunks if it gets bare, and try rooting that. If that experiment goes well, you might want to prune back all, or some, of the others to create a pleasing shape. And once it's growing well, let it dry between waterings - being too wet is probably what rotted your first trunk. |
|
| thanks TFW I'll give the high phosphorous fertilizer a shot. In the past I had used those Miracle Grow root sticks, and the plant seemed to like them very much. Not exactly sure if they're high phosphorous though. It will be difficult to be patient but I know that's what it is going to take. I will consider pruning the trunks once there is new growth, but I suppose that will probably take until the fall which maybe is not the best time to do it? |
|
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Sun, Aug 19, 12 at 16:07
| Greg, I use a liquid fertilizer, applied once a week during the Summer. I would discourage a high phosphorous fertilizer, as plants don't use more phosphorous than nitrogen, and it would be a waste of money. The middle number should always be the smallest. Here are two very good Threads on the Myth of Bloom Booster fertilizers: Bloom Boosters - How Much P is Enough? and The uselessness of high P fertilizers The yellow leaves on your plant could be indicating over-watering and compromised roots, Josh |
|
| Hi, Greg. I agree with Josh. Some notes you can consider if you choose: If you get your soil right (and I think that deserves significant attention because it probably holds more sway over how successful you're likely to be than any other factor), stick with a fertilizer that supplies nutrients in as close to the same ratio as that in which plants actually USE the nutrients, get the light right, and at least get close to reasonable with your watering habits in combination with a forgiving soil, you're 90% of the way there. Becoming an accomplished grower isn't difficult. It has much more to do with knowing how to cover the basics than anything else. Concerning yourself first with what I noted already - your soil choice, a good nutritional supplementation program, good watering practices, and getting your plant into favorable light ..... and the rest is quite easy - even the basics aren't all that difficult if you get reliable information to work with. Al |
|
| Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. Your information and insight are much appreciated. It's been one week since I re-potted, so I've included a recent picture of my plant. We were paid a visit yesterday by my two young nieces, who decided the yellow leaves were unbecoming, and proceeded to pluck them off one by one! LOL...no harm, no foul, young ones! The optimistic news is that the newest leaves still seem quite healthy a week after re-potting. These leaves are still bright green; no black speckles; no signs of yellowing (yet). Their nodes (where leaves attach to branch) are engorged rather than shriveling, which leads me to believe that water / nutrients are making their way up from the roots to sustain these healthy leaves. I moved the plant to its favorite sunny place. Any insight is more than welcome! I'll probably post an update every few weeks unless there are objections. Thanks again! Greg |
|
| Organic particles in houseplant soils have a fairly good ability to retain nutrients, it's just that because the bulk density of container media has to be so much less than mineral soils in order for plants to grow well that, by default, the bulk density of container media plays a significant part in the soil's o/a ability to retain nutrients. This is a factor no matter whether you use a synthetic soluble fertilizer or rely on organic soil amendments as your nutrition source. The flip side of the coin is that organic sources of nutrients become available very slowly in container media, and as soon as they ARE available in an elemental form that CAN be utilized by plants, they are actually in exactly the same chemical form as synthetic soluble nutrients - salts - and as such are equally susceptible to being eliminated from the container in the watering effluent. The focus of a nutritional supplementation program should center around the grower taking responsibility for ensuring that all the essential elements plant normally take from the soil are in the soil and available at all times, in a ratio as close to that at which the plants actually USE the nutrients, and at a concentration high enough to ensure there will be no deficiencies yet low enough to ensure no toxicity issues or difficulty for the plant to take up water and the nutrients dissolved in the water. If you are interested in the most efficient and reliable method of achieving the above mentioned end, it's very difficult to make a clearly defined case against soluble synthetics for houseplants without basing it on an ideological issue. Soluble synthetics deliver nutrients in a way that leaves you sure of the 'what, how much, and when' of what you're providing, and you can be sure the nutrients are always immediately available for uptake. Al |
|
| Hi Al, That makes a lot of sense. So now the pertinent questions are: How do I determine my plant's optimum concentration level of nutrients? How do I measure the concentration level of nutrients in the medium? I'm just being rhetorical because I suspect the answers are empirical. It's up to my own curiosity and desire to grow the plant to find the answers! Thanks for your help! Greg |
|
| How you should fertilize for best results is inextricably linked to your soil choice and watering habits, so it's difficult to give a specific instruction w/o some knowledge of the variables. In general, you can usually obtain the best results by way of utilizing a soil fast enough to allow you to water copiously at will to flush the soil, and frequent applications of fertilizer at lower than the recommended doses. The frequent flushing of the soil and replenishing of nutrients keeps the nutrient ratio from becoming skewed by residual nutrients that build in the soil, and keeps the EC/TDS (roughly, the salt level) of the soil solution low, so the plant can readily take up water and nutrients. This is especially important for plants known to express their disapproval of a high level of dissolved solids in the soil solution by displaying spoiled foliage, usually in the form of necrotic leaf tips and margins, as a first indicator. If you want to fine tune things like EC, TDS, PPMs of various nutrients for each plant type, that's fine, but it takes some serious involvement. I don't. I just follow one plan for the summer and another for plants over-wintering indoors, with both strategies producing very good results. Al |
|
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Tue, Aug 21, 12 at 12:57
| Great info, Al! Greg, the fertilizer you bought is in a favorable ratio for plants to use. Al and I like to wait about 2 weeks to fertilize after re-potting *most* plants, which gives If it has been 2 weeks, start out with a 1/4 or 1/2 strength dose of fertilizer
Josh |
|
| Just to add to what Josh said, the 24-8-16 also lacks Mg. Neither nutrient is likely to need supplementation in the first year of a planting if you're using a commercially prepared soil, but if you're making your own soils (a good idea) it's an issue that does need addressing. Also, it's possible that if you press a commercially prepared soil into use for more than a single growth cycle, and your fertilizer doesn't contain Mg, that you may need to supplement that element. The reason is, commercial soils are almost ALWAYS pH adjusted with dolomitic lime, which supplies Ca/Mg; but the Mg fraction of the dolomite is about 125X more soluble than the Ca fraction, and as such will be depleted at a much faster rate than the Ca fraction. Thanks, Josh ..... BTW - someone was calling for you here in a thread about repotting/root pruning epiphytic cacti. I was itching to jump in, but didn't want to step on your toes. ;-) Take care. Al |
|
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Tue, Aug 21, 12 at 14:38
| Good catch, Al! Yes, Mg, too ;-) I think I might know the Thread....a Thanksgiving Cacti?
Josh |
|
| No - this one .... see Aug 20. I don't think the hose is going to cut it - maybe wedges ..... Please excuse the cross talk, Greg - we're trying to get Josh's pages figured out. ;-) Al |
|
| Hi Josh, Hi Al, I don't mind the cross talk at all. In fact I went to the other post to see what was cooking; I'm trying to soak up as much info as possible right now! Glad to know the 24-8-16 fertilizer is suitable. Directions on the fertilizer suggest 1/2 tsp per gallon of water, every one to two weeks. Monday (8/27) will be two weeks since I re-potted, so on that day I plan to start fertilizing with 1/4 tsp per gallon every two weeks. Thanks for any additional insight! Greg |
|
| If you're using a fast soil, you can double that fertilizer dose while plants are growing strong - especially if they're outdoors. How did you make your soil? Al |
|
| soil: 1 part (filled 8" potter) pine bark 1 part (filled 8" potter) lava stone 1 part (filled 8" potter) perlite two handfuls of charcoal one cap worth of Osmocote (it seems pretty "fast" to me!) plant is indoors; i live in a townhouse and really don't have a place i trust to leave it outdoors. not particularly sure if the plant is growing "strong" right now; older yellow leaves have dropped; newest leaves are nice and green and appear strong, their nodes are engorged and not wilted as mentioned in previous posts; though one or two leaves do have some minor yellowing, it's nothing that is alarming to me; i must admit i haven't noticed any new growth or change to the tops of the branches where new growth is formed... |
|
| hello, it's been a month since i re-potted my money tree and i am happy to say it looks like it is now on the road to making a strong comeback. leaves that remain look vital; and two of the four remaining branches have thrown out new growth (one is circled in red on the picture). the other two branches seem "dormant" so far; no new growth yet, but also no signs of deteriorating either. their leaves are still bright green and healthy looking, so, i am hopeful that these two "dormant" branches will start to grow again after a little more time. i've used the 24-8-16 fertilizer once a week for the past two weeks; it seems to have had a positive effect. i'm still looking for a little advice on how to supplement Mg and Ca into my homemade potting mix. also, it seems that i have hard water, because i've noticed a white residue building up on the outside of my planter. should i filter my water? any advice on this would be most welcome. thanks a lot, greg
|
|
| There are several ways to ensure your plant gets adequate amounts of Ca/Mg. You can use a liquid supplement called Cal-Mag Plus, mix a small amount of gypsum into the soil and add a little Epsom salts every time you fertilize, switch to Foliage-Pro 9-3-6, which has both of the nutrients in a favorable ratio, check your water supply to see if both need supplementing or if only one needs to be supplemented .... The foliage looks light in the picture. If it's not deep green, you can increase the amount of fertilizer you're giving the plant. Al |
|
| hi al, thanks always for the insight. yes, i would qualify the foliage as "light", although the new growth sprouting since the re-pot and fertilizing looks darker... a few questions: 2. will existing foliage turn darker green as more fertilizer is introduced? or should i only expect new growth to be darker green? 3. what are early signs (if any) of too much fertilizer (if that is possible)? thanks again! greg |
|
| hi al, just noticed from one of your previous posts in this thread, that you already answered my first question: "and frequent applications of fertilizer at lower than the recommended doses" = ) greg |
|
| 1) Either is fine 2) Often, new growth emerges lighter than mature foliage or a different color entirely, and darkens or turns green as it matures. Light/chlorotic mature growth can occur as a result of something nutritional, cultural, or cultural/nutritional. Several actual deficiencies can cause chlorotic tendencies, 'actual deficiencies' meaning there is an actual absence or insufficiency of the nutrient in the soil. Sometimes poor root function or low oxygen levels, usually due to water-logging, can make certain nutrients difficult to absorb. High pH can also cause Ca and many of the micronutrients to bind with other elements in the soil so they are insoluble and beyond the reach of the plant, even though they are present in the soil in quantities sufficient to meet needs were they soluble. In your case, since no lime was used and you're using an acid-forming soluble fertilizer, I doubt pH could be an issue, and we can probably eliminate water-logging, so it's likely you're just not fertilizing enough. There is a possibility it's a Mg deficiency, and you can test that idea by spraying a few leaves with 1/2 tsp of Epsom salts in a gallon of water. Note which leaves you sprayed and if they turned greener, which would signal a need for more MG. 3) Increasing internode length during increasing day length, leggy succulent growth with large leaves, burned leaf tips and/or margins, spoiled appearance of blooms in some plants, wilting during the day and perking up at night ..... can all be early indicators of over-fertilizing. Al |
|
| hello again, well, it's been about 6 weeks since i repotted, and a little more than three weeks that i've been fertilizing. i've added some epsom salts to the last round of fertilizing to get some Mg into the mix. things are going quite well, the plant looks healthy in general and there is now new growth from all four branches. i couldn't be happier with the plant's comeback! now, i've encountered a new problem: recently something has been nibbling at one of the new leaves, see the red circled area on the attached picture...i've noticed small little silver / white crawling insects hiding in the potting medium, and a few black flying insects that look kind of like fruit flies...they're difficult to detect, and i kill them on sight when i can find them...i haven't caught any in the act, but the nibbling keeps getting bigger so i know they are still there! i would like to nip this problem in bud so any advice would be very helpful! thanks a lot, greg |
|
| hello again, OK, so i did two things today: when i removed the top layer of soil i was happy to see many new looking white roots, a good sign i think... anyway, i am going to leave the plant without water for the next week or so while i am away, hopefully the mixture will dry out and this problem will go away by itself greg |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the House Plants Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.