Cleaned up and watered:

Planto

yeah I'm sure it will be fine. Looks like a peace lily,but which kind? Was it labeled?

Hopefully it doesn't look like that because it has thrips. Good vibes to it!

Jon,
I think it's just your run of the mill small 'Peace Lily.' I saw other 'Peace Lilies' in the same pots (in perfect condition mind you) and they look like 'Petite Spathe' or 'Jetty Junior.'

Tiff,
*gulps* How would I know if it has thrips? If I keep it away from my other houseplants, what's the likelihood they can get to the others (if it indeed has thrips)?

Planto

Okay, I guess this was a wasted post (sorry). I grabbed a magnifying glass and spotted tiny bugs crawling all over the plant and on the soil. I don't know what a thrip looks like (and these were moving too fast for me to get a good look), but I'm not sure anything crawling on a plant is a good sign. I'm just going to get rid of it to be on the safe side. Good thing I'm only out of $.50!

Planto

If these are in fact thrips you are seeing,Petrushka and I were talking about an unorthodox method of pest control. Bag the plant with chips off a mothball(in a bottlecap or something,not on/in the mix)and taking it out again 24hrs later.

If you feel up to experimenting,pull that sucker out of the trash and give it a shot.

Could be interesting! :)

The distorted leaf looks like damage from some sap sucking bug. Is it still warm enough to put this outdoors for a week or two? That often deters bugs. Another possibility is to give the plant a thorough rinse and swoosh under the tap.

Asleep,
Unfortunately, I don't have any moth balls around to experiment (that would require me to purchase some, haha).

floral,
I've seen "odd" leaves on 'Peace Lilies' before, but not to this extent. I guess it should have been a clue for me to just leave it, eh?

Planto

the creepers in soil are prolly gnat larvae, not thrips. but they could be thrip larvae too. i wouldn't want to look too close ;) either...
you can try submerging it in soapy water (1tb of dish soap to 1 gal) - pot and all under water sev inches for 30 min. it'll kill living creepers, but prolly not eggs. you'll need to bag it for isolation and repeat the dunking in 2 weeks. whatever eggs/pupae are there should hatch by then.
and then a 3rd time to be on the safe side ;). considering it's a 'peace lily' - may be it can withstand all the moisture, but bagging will prevent evaporation - so it can rot easily, especially since there are no leaves to speak of.
you can take the rootball out of the pot after dunking and wrap it in paper-towels completely , changing sev times to dry it up as much as possible and then put it on wide unglazed clay saucer (like 8" large) still wrapped with paper-towels and bagged with rubber band on sides, the clay will slowly pull the moisture out of the soil to help to dry it up. that would be the only safe way to dunk and bag later continuously sev times. the bag should have no holes for aeration what so ever, since thrips/gnats crawl out and fly away.
just google thrips - you'll see plenty of pics , not pretty, but could be worse :(.
thrips are impossible to get rid of without systemic in soil and multple treatments. if one escapes it can fly to other plants. they love african violets, as you may know.
the flying ones look a bit smaller then gnats, but they have longer bodies.
it's involved to say the least and it's not worth the risk, in my view.
unfortunately most plants from field nurseries in summer will be infected with thrips, since they are ubiquitous. and also most HD/lowes/wm shops that carry AV's present the risk of spread to other flowering and even non-flowering plants.

Petrushka,
Sounds more involved than it's worth lol. I did Google thrips, but my magnifying glass wasn't all that great, so I couldn't get a super close look at them. That, and they moved too fast.

Makes me think of something I've noticed on my 'Domino' Peace Lily. I've noticed that the new leaves appear folded when they're "unraveling." Like right now, I see a new leaf emerging, but I can already tell that it's folded on itself (I hope this makes sense). So, when they fully open, they're sort of bumpy looking. What Causes that?

Planto

yah, dunking is pretty involved, although totally non-toxic. if you had a big plant it would be worth it. it kills gnats too.
but with this lil thing - certainly not.
'bout mothballs, for thrips it actually takes 2 weeks of bagging or at least 1 week, cause flakes need to evaporate and create fumes that kill eggs/pupae/larvae, etc just like with moths. and with pupae underground it'll prolly do nothing to them until they hatch and crawl out - which could be anywhere from 1-14 days depending on stages of development and temps. i became almost a specialist, i tell'yah! but i don't want to bore you to death....
about crinkled leaf on peace lily - cj-speciosa was asking just a few days ago. look at his pic to compare. i posted a link (last) that i found, that it could be Boron deficiency. most orchid/av/flower ferts with micros' contain boron.

Here is a link that might be useful: cj-speciosa post

Petrushka,
That's ok, you're not boring me. Just sounds like a lot of work for a plant that was only $.50 lol. I ended up saving the pot (I bleached it twice) and chunked the plant.

As to the crinkly leaves, I fertilize monthly with Alaska pure sea kelp and then Alaska fish emulsion. I wasn't sure how much of each I should use, as I fertilize a number of plants with the same gallon container. African Violets, peace liles, sansevieria, ZZ Plant, pothos, philodendron, peperomia, spider plant. I know my 'bird's nest fern' would need much less than the others, if even it'd need fertilized at all every month.

The fish emulsion says for large indoor plants, 2 tsp per gallon and small indoor plants, 1 tsp. The sea kelp says for hydroponic use, 2 tbsp per gallon. I had no idea how much to use of either, so I was using maybe 1/2 tsp of the fish emulsion once a month and about the same of the sea kelp once a month. Do I have to use differing amounts for my plants, considering my 'Domino' is large and in a nice sized container, or can I use the same amount for it as I do a plant in a four inch pot? What amount of each and how often do you recommend using? Should I mix up different amounts for each type of plant, or is the same amount okay for them all?

I didn't see boron listed on either... I did see magnesium and a few other elements listed in the sea kelp.

Thanks,
Planto

the problem with same fert for all is that some plants want extra of this or that. e.g all aroids like extra magnesium: so epsom salts once a month at 1tb per gallon is very good. that's in addition to other ferts, UNLESS they have good amt of magnesium already.
since you have av's already - it should be easy enough to get special liquid mg av fert and then you can also use it with peace lily and other flower plants. flower plants and also plants with 'flower foliage' (pink in foliage) often need extra micros and slightly diff formulations from pure foliage plants.
sea kelp is very good but it is quite low in N usually (look at the ratio on the box). large fast growing tropicals certainly would need more N. like the std 3:1:2 ratio for example. from the plants you listed pothos and spiders are pretty fast, some philo's too, if in good light.
cacti and sansi and fruiting/bulby plants often need extra calcium - so cacti fertilizer comes in handy for that, unless you have special calcium nutes. it depends on how many you grow, if it's worth it for you to get a diff formulation or not.
as far as the size of plant and how much to give it: since the nutes are in water and you give larger plants MORE water, IF they are growing at the same rate - you can roughly use the same dosage, but you'll be pouring more water - so they'll get more fertilizer .
IF smth has HUGE leaves and grows very fast you can double the seaweed dosage (it's so safe, it prolly won't hurt to quad it!).
with seaweed you can certainly fertilize ev week. if that makes you queazy, do it twice a month. i think once a month in summer months for tropicals is not enough. unless all your plants are sitting in very very dim light and hardly growing at all.
so you see, it all depends really.
your dosage is prolly ok for zz's, sansi. for others if they're in moderate light, you can do it ev 2weeks in growth period and fall back to monthly in winter.
for AV's - if you want them to prosper do weekly. and they do need micros. seaweed might not give them all they need. AV mg fert is very good for lots of other things - certainly all aroids and anything with flowers. it is formulated for acidic plants - most aroids will love it and ferns and begonias and orchids too (double the dosage), if you chance on any. so it's very useful to have.
since all this is kind of confusing, you can just get a time release osmocote plus (with micros) in 2 formulations: one for flowering one for foliage and sprinkle it on lightly at half dosage.
then you can supplement monthly with seaweed. or ev 2 weeks for fast growers.

This post was edited by petrushka on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 22:03

don't get me wrong, i love seaweed and use it too - but only in addition to other ferts for reg plants. it is however the best for seedlings/rooting/cuttings and very small plants - it can't burn the tiny roots and is very easily assimilated. i use it then exclusively.
when your fertilizer does not have micros - seaweed supplement helps a lot, but still it might not be enough.

What about fish emulsion? I never purchased MG AV fert because I noticed it has urea in it, which I thought was bad for AVs (?). That information does help. :) I was afraid that I wasn't fertilizing enough, but I didn't want to overdo it somehow.

So, just to recap, to make sure I understand you correctly. I can fertilize my Sans, ZZ, and other plants (not including the AV and Peace Lilies) at 1/2 tsp every two weeks or once a month (depending on how much light they're receiving; this actually does vary for me during the year. Right now they're receiving more light than they would be in June!). The same plants, scale back to once a month in winter.

I should invest in some epsom salt for the peace lilies, giving them 1tbsp per gallon once a month (is that year round?). Do I include the ZZ plant since it is considered an aroid? So give the peace lilies half strength of the sea kelp twice a month? Is that right?

As to the cacti and succulents, can I use one fourth strength of tomato fert once a month? What about giving them sea kelp or fish emulsion? How much/how often?

How much of what for the AVs how often?

Sorry, I think I ended up with more questions!

Planto

This post was edited by plantomaniac08 on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 22:32

when you ask about ferts - you need to specify your formulation - percentages (you can see on the box). otherwise it's impossible to talk about it.
lets start again: fish emulsion, seaweed, tomato ?
fish emulsion often contain seaweed extracts so fish emulsion/seaweed is sort of interchangeable, except fish emulsion will have more cal/mag. you need to read the list of micros on the box. each brand is different.
why are you using 1/2 tsp? you need to stick to recommended dosages, but half or quarter them only if you're fertilizing more often.
the dosage outside vs indoors usually goes like 1tb vs 1tsp.
so if yours says 2tb ev 3 wks outdoors - it would be 2tsp ev 3 weeks indoors. except you can do 3/4tsp ev week: weeker and more often is better.
1/2tsp of reg fertilizer ev 2 weeks for slower growth plants in good light is ok. but fish-e/seaweed is usually higher dosage, 'cause it's so weak. i looked up alaska, it's only 5-1-1. mine is 2-3-1 and it's 1tb per gallon ev 2-3 weeks. i don't reduce dosage AND i use TR osmo in addition to that, which feeds at ev. watering. but i have mod to hi light. and my plants are not in bark either.

as far as fertilizing cacti/sansi - you can check respective forums for info - diff people do various things. i grow mine very hard - very little water very little ferts, since i want just minimal very dense growth.
so with that in mind i fertilize very rarely, may be sev times a year only, except for my big old jades in spring/fall season. and my sansi's are huge 4-5 feet and fat. i think i did not fertilize them at all the first 5 years. the biggest is 20 yrs and repotted 3 times at most. and it's still doing great.
i've never had problems with av mg fertilizer - my av's go bananas growing and blooming, been doing it for 5 years non-stop. do yours grow and bloom ok now? if so, then just continue doing what you're doing. the av people will advise you on dosage better, since i do constant wicking with 7-7-7 and you don't want to wick with seaweed/fish-e, you need synthetic ferts for wicking, or the water goes bad.

This post was edited by petrushka on Thu, Sep 25, 14 at 10:18

epsom salts are cheap, they have them in the drug b-ath section.
am not sure we're on the same page: when i say 1tb epsom per gallon - that's just dosage. if peace lily is all you're doing, you'll need what? 2 cups of water for it? so ... it's 3/8tsp for 2 cups of water.
yes, feed epsom salts ev month all aroids inaddition to fertilizing, peace lily and ZZs too, except when they totally stop growing and are kept drier and at lower temps (equivalent of winter/dry season) - usually not longer then 2-3 months.
as far as fertilizing tropicals in general cooler season:
depends on your conditions (temps/light) and where they come from. it's on plant by plant basis, they might differ a lot and it gets complicated and you need to consider many factors.
peace lily and zz's are at opposite ends as it stands, one likes to be moist, the other likes to be dry. a lot of other common tropicals fall in between.
zz's naturally go dormant in dry season. so in the season of your lower temps and lower light - water them less and don't fertilize.
they often burst into growth in fall/spring, so that would be your main growing fertilizing season and you can try giving them brighter light and certainly above 68F temps for growth, if you can.
don't water them at all if you have 60F at nite (yes, you can stop watering for 2 months altogether!).

peace lily should be kept drier at lower temps and please never soak it in lower temps . but never totally dry it up either (lower 1/3 should not be allowed to dry out..unless you have 60F! ok then let it be almost dry but not to wilting). and then you don't feed.
what you want in cooler season is to just give enough moisture to slightly rewet the top, without allowing any more water to percolate thru the bottom (that is already slightly moist). you'll need to check with chop-stick for moisture levels in the pot from time to time.
believe it or not - my 'totally dry' 6" caladiums/begonias after 3 months of no water still were not bone dry in the middle of the pot.
but they are about 50% peat. so it also depends on your soil mix.
wilting of leaves for peace lily is very bad, wilting sev times will considerably weaken the plant and make it susceptible to pests.

it's best to keep it in good very bright light year round. If your temps are above 68F at all times including winter - it'll continue to grow new leaves. so you can continue to feed and water regularly.
you need to watch the plant and may be take notes of your conditions and growth patterns. then you'll know how much to water/feed. unfortunately there is no simple answer.
...when you have a lot of new growth - you can up the fertilizer. after a bloom you can give it extra .

I was only giving everyone half strength because I was afraid to overdo it. I think reading your comments, I can hear my plants telling me they're starving lol. I can't find what exactly is in the fish emulsion (micronutrients; it's not listed anywhere I can find).

Okay, if you haven't had any issues with MG fert, I'll picks some up then. I don't know if you remember me asking on the AV forum about what was wrong with one of my AVs. I read last night that some fish emulsion ferts have chlorine in them. *gulps* I wonder if that was my issue! I can imagine certain AVs are probably more sensitive to certain percentages of chlorine than others.

The way I water is by using a gallon water container. So, I don't know how much water everyone gets. I water until it comes out of the bottom and repeat another time or two. So, it depends sometimes.

I did bare root repot the 'Domino' PL, so I wonder if that has had an effect on its growth. Probably not much in that soil (MG cactus mix/perlite). It has exploded with root growth, just new leaves are bumpy and small Compared to previous growth (growth that was present at purchase). I am giving it more light, now it receives morning sun, whereas before it wasn't getting as much light. Maybe light, soil, too big of a pot (that's all I had at the time), and too little fert are causes.

Planto

i remember one of your av's was not growing well or died and they advised you that it could be cloramines? i never checked my water, and i water just from the tap, no standing and i am totally fine. but of course it depends where you are,etc.
but hey, it's easy to experiment on 1-2 av's - give it av mg fert and you'll see the change within 6 weeks. put them where they can get 2-3 hours of cool sun - and then you'll really see growth!
my domino is still in it's original peaty mix from purchase 1 year ago - and it's doubled or even tripled in size. but for semi-hydro it's pretty common to grow in small pots. it's in 6" on water-wick, continuous liq. feed in western dappled light for 2-3 hours. it loves it. it started blooming in april and now it's going in bloom again . i'll put it soon in 8" and am NOT bare-rooting unless i find that it's in coir peat, which is very easy to shake out without root damage.
for now here's the plant last sep after 2 mo with me and then right now - 1 year after. i tried to rescale but still older pic is a bit big.
it's on the same chair, but 2nd is in taller ceramic 'water-reservoir' vase. the 1st pic is in natural light, 2nd with a flash - so there is a diff green, but it's normal healthy green in reality, not yellowish.
you'll see that mine has some yellowing of older leaves at the edges and some blk tips here'n there. but i have removed 1 single leaf since feb this year, so some leaves are getting older.
i am concerned a little though that it could be magnesium defficiency. i got a special magi-cal supplement for my aroids and just fed it to all. waiting for it so soak it up and then a coupla weeks later i'll be putting it in 8" pot. it's extremely dense at this point.

Hubby said the same about experimenting. Sadly, I don't have the space to try!

I tried uploading a picture of mine, but I can't on this iPad due to the new Apple update... It just crashes the browser. I'll take a new picture for you later and show you mine (I'll have to upload it on the computer). The picture I had on here was old anyway lol. Mine has wider, bigger leaves (well, the old ones) and only one plant in the pot. It didn't have a ton of leaves when I bought it either. It has since produced about five leaves in the four(?) months that I've had it.

Oh and I want your 'Domino.' :D

Planto

Okay, this is a picture I took just now.

Planto

it looks good! yours has less variegation then mine - it's because it's not getting enough light. give it some time. it's a pretty young plant - they take longer to fill out. i think mine has prolly 12 crowns, it's crazy tight. i think it's because of tissue culture - they sprout multi-clusters and then off-shoot too. i won't even be able to separate them without totally ripping it apart. but i refuse to do it.
i don't want to disturb it for now, want more blooms. i only got 7 this 1st year. i am surprised it's starting up again.
i scratched off a tiny offshoot from the soil in feb from mine by negligence - just 2 1" leaves with half an inch of stem - stuck it in water. it had roots in 1 mo, then in perlite, then half av soil half perlite and on a wick.
so since april it produced 5 leaves and the last 3 are 4". that's in 6mo. i am feeding it too with kelp and an occasional av 7-7-7.
it's in a tiny plastic cup cut-off to 2".
it's doing totally fine. if with time leaves are increasing it's doing ok.
you need to be patient ;).
my big one has lots of leaves that are half white. some are almost totally white, but they are usually smaller.

I was afraid to move it too close to the window (I didn't want to burn it), but I was afraid it wasn't receiving enough light either, so it's now right under the window. I guess I'll see how big/variegated the new leaf that's currently forming is. Is it possible that's a factor that has caused the newer leaves being small? Too little light and not enough fertilizer (okay, that was two factors)?

Planto

yes, it is possible, quite possible. here's a quote from some of my files:
How can you tell if your plant is not receiving adequate light?
⢠The plant does not grow.
⢠The internodes (spaces between the leaves) on the new growth are much longer than the internodes on the older part of the plant.
⢠The new leaves are smaller than the older leaves.
⢠The leaf color is a lighter green on the newer foliage than on the older foliage.
⢠The older leaves are dead.
the only point that would not apply to spath is about color - with less light the color will be deeper green.

most plants that require bright diffused light can be placed IN the window with west/east light that is covered by a sheer curtain or has horizontal/vertical blinds that will create shifting sun pattern. it's not the sunlight per se that burns (unless you're down in deep south with very strong sun) it's the heat . this type of plant does well in bright dappled shifting shade under the trees in fl - which is some-where 3000 -5000 fc .
by comparison full daylight south window at 40o latitude gives 1000-2000fc.
in order to bloom spath need as bright light as philos or african violets for that matter: within 1000-2000 range.
i found references that in greenhouses they prolly get 2500-3000 fc !
most sources list AVs at 1000-1200 levels. if your av's are blooming poorly - it's most likely they don't get enough light. AV's respond very fast to increased light. you can experiment with them first.
so your spath needs to be where AVs are to grow and bloom well.
one trick is the position near the corner of the window. e.g in west window the left corner (Sw) will get bright light but almost no sun until the very end of the day when the sun is very weak - try that first. on the other hand the right corner will get MUCH more sun even if you position your plant 2-3 away from the window. of course the center position gets the most. with east window it's the reverse.

in winter position on high shelf in west/east window will get some direct sun, while in summer it will get none, but still it will be in bright light.
the only way to truly understand your light levels is to measure them with a light meter.

Thanks for the information. I have had quite the time figuring out who likes it where. I only have one window and it's a standard size window at that. So, this is a learning experience for sure! My AV blooms fine where it is and the others (in the same spot) bloomed fine as well. I think I am fortunate in that there is a vent near the plants, so there's a nice "airflow" to keep them from burning. At least I think it does lol. I will let you know once I think its been enough time to tell if being moved closer to the window is helping.

Planto