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kwie2011

Technical Questions

kwie2011
9 years ago

I'm trying to find a chart or something with the symptoms of various nutrient deficiencies or overdoses, pH problems, and so forth - like what a plant grown without enough calcium might look like - stuff like that.

I'm also trying to find reliable information on how root growth affects growth above the soil. I read contradictory information on this all the time - like a large pot reduces growth speed above-ground because the plant puts all its energy into roots, or a shallow pot increases horizontal growth while a deep pot encourages height. Others say some plants grow more attractively if slightly pot-bound, while others say all plants do better with more room, but no one ever cites research, and I'm sure the effect is different for different plants. I've even read that Turface is about the worst thing you can use to amend soil! I would like to find reliable info on these things. Just because someone published an article or has his/her own website, it doesn't mean they really know what they're talking about, and I'm about fed-up with trying to sort reality from myth and subjective interpretation.

Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.

Comments (9)

  • MsGreenFinger GW
    9 years ago

    I think the published articles, blogs and books are based on their author's knowledge and/or experience. Since there is no recipe for healthy and happy plants (every house/garden is different, every town's climate and every grower and every plant) you need to choose a path and make adjustments if something fails. Just think about nurseries and what their plants look like and what their soils look like. There is a great chance the soil is not suitable for the plant on the long run, neither is the pot size/shape. Yet they seem to know what they are doing and grow and sell plants by their thousands.

    There surely are scientific books about symptoms and plant biology (I know many but unfortunately none of them is in English).

    I followed advice I got on GW and what I read in blogs and felt reasonable. I only have a couple of houseplants, I live in a country with 300 days of cloudy sky. So made my choice of growing hydroponically and I failed in many things, yet went on with the experiment and my plants look happy now.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    9 years ago

    Very interesting questions! To correctly absorb (or convey) any anecdote, it's usually necessary to know what kind of soil/mix is being used.

    After you repot your plants a few times, you understand them much better. Looking at pics in an image search of things like pruning and roots, can answer a lot of questions about most plants.

    Plant research is usually done on crop plants, or for medicinal purposes, popular (financially rewarding) landscape plants and cultivars. Only plant-o-philes like us do the kind of research you're talking about on (mostly) plain species potted tropical entities.

    If your plants' roots are happy/healthy, you have a decent fertilizer, stay away from scientifically unsupported old wives' tales, especially in regard to single-ingredient alternative/household fertilizers, you shouldn't have any need for diagnosing nutrient imbalances.

  • kwie2011
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'm not looking for advice about my plants. My interest extends far beyond what's growing in my living room. I'm looking for the same information that plant biologists, botanists, horticulturists, etc. probably read just to get their undergrad degrees. In fact, text books would be great. Surely, I'm not the only person here who seeks knowledge for the sake of knowledge, or wants to know more about a subject than just what's in front of them.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    9 years ago

    Damn! I had a long post all prepared and did something stupid (I think) and lost all my work. I did that yesterday on another forum site, too. I HATE it when that happens.

    Try this site for reliable information about nutritional issues and info. It even has a Mulder's Chart that shows how antagonisms play out, which really shows why fertilizers that don't closely mimic the ratio of nutrients plants actually USE, can get you in trouble in doubletime.

    Ask any specific questions you can think of. We can probably answer them. Root growth and top growth are closely linked. Root growth always occurs prior to top growth. Chemical messengers keep the plant informed about it's state of vitality, and growth regulators will suppress top growth until there is enough root mass to support it. What is the first thing to emerge from the seed? The root radicle, not the trunk.

    That plants in very large pots with plenty of room for roots to run won't put on top mass because they put all their energy into growing only roots is a myth. We KNOW that tight roots slows growth more and more as root congestion increases. It doesn't make sense that tight roots and roots with room to run would BOTH suppress growth, does it? Growth and vitality begins to be negatively affected at the point where the root/soil mass can be separated from the pot intact. Once a plant gets to that point, nothing will correct the limitation other than correcting the problem via root pruning. Potting up won't do it, and neither will planting out.

    Myth - shallow pots stimulate lateral growth while deep pots stimulate ht. No truth there. Whether plants are shrubby or tree-like originates in genetic predisposition and can be controlled to a large degree by selective pruning.

    There are 2 perspectives when it comes to plants being potbound. From the plant's POV, tight roots are always limiting, so the plant wants more room for roots when they are congested - to relieve the stress. The stress CAN be employed by the grower to make some plants grow in desirable ways. Tight roots have a dwarfing effect (smaller leaves/tighter internodes, and sometimes a few more blooms, but stress is stress. Stress unchecked leads to strain, and strain uncorrected always leads to death of the organism.

    Not long ago, ONE person glommed onto a negative statement someone made in a blog about Turface. This person is intentionally negative about most things associated with the 5:1:1 mix or the gritty mix, and even regularly sacrifices his credibility on the altar of negativity when it comes to these soils. It's not uncommon to see that happen. Turface, used appropriately, is a superb soil additive/amendment. Asking people who actually USE these soils, and considering them a reliable source is going to serve you much better than believing someone with an axe to grind.

    Al

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    9 years ago

    Damn! I had a long post all prepared and did something stupid (I think) and lost all my work. I did that yesterday on another forum site, too. I HATE it when that happens.

    Try this site for reliable information about nutritional issues and info. It even has a Mulder's Chart that shows how antagonisms play out, which really shows why fertilizers that don't closely mimic the ratio of nutrients plants actually USE, can get you in trouble in doubletime.

    Ask any specific questions you can think of. We can probably answer them. Root growth and top growth are closely linked. Root growth always occurs prior to top growth. Chemical messengers keep the plant informed about it's state of vitality, and growth regulators will suppress top growth until there is enough root mass to support it. What is the first thing to emerge from the seed? The root radicle, not the trunk.

    That plants in very large pots with plenty of room for roots to run won't put on top mass because they put all their energy into growing only roots is a myth. We KNOW that tight roots slows growth more and more as root congestion increases. It doesn't make sense that tight roots and roots with room to run would BOTH suppress growth, does it? Growth and vitality begins to be negatively affected at the point where the root/soil mass can be separated from the pot intact. Once a plant gets to that point, nothing will correct the limitation other than correcting the problem via root pruning. Potting up won't do it, and neither will planting out.

    Al

  • marguerite_gw Zone 9a
    9 years ago

    MsGreenFinger, where are you in Ireland?. My house plants all do very well. We are in the 'Greystones Riviera', but still other people I know in Ireland elsewhere growing them succeed pretty well. If you would like another one or two I can spare some cuttings.

  • kwie2011
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The thread must be jinxed, Al, because I've also lost my post (twice so far), and couldn't get back to the page either.

    So, before I lose it again - thanks for the great info. If you know more like thst, please share. If I come up with more specific questions, I'll ask. Thanks!

  • jean001a
    9 years ago

    If possible, sign up for an Introduction to Horticulture class at a nearby college. It will provide factual answers and help you discover reliable information resources.

    Also, when you do an online search, add "site:edu" to the search phrase (but without the quotes). It will mostly limit the results to that from educational institutions. But also understand that all docs are written by people who can make errors when writing up info.

    You will probably enjoy reading the info at this site that fights horticultural myths -- see link below...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Hort myths

  • kwie2011
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Great idea with the site:edu search. Thanks! I like the myth site too. Many interesting articles.

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