I vote for using the gritty and documenting the results over time. These trees take a bit more drying out between watering in less porous mixes so something tells me it's a natural fit.

I'm kind of leaning toward the gritty mix too, but I'm a little hesitant because my mix doesn't have any bark. I'm in an apartment with nowhere to screen messy bark fines, so after talking with Al, I'm using 2:1 granite to diatomacious earth. Seems to hold enough water, but I'm uncertain about nutrient retention. Succulents, pothos, and spider plants are growing in it, but they're probably too hardy to make good test subjects. I know the Draceana will survive in it. I'm just not certain I'll get the fastest growth. Wish I had 2 Draceana so I could plant them in different media. (Crap, now I've sown that seed in my brain and there will be no resisting the impulse when I see another on sale... I'm an addict.)

If no one else weighs in here, I'll go for the grit, and at the same time, do some side-by-side comparisons with faster-growing plants in my grit vs. other media. I'll also document the Draceana. It'll be fun. :-).

I'm kind of leaning toward the gritty mix too, but I'm a little hesitant because my mix doesn't have any bark. I'm in an apartment with nowhere to screen messy bark fines, so after talking with Al, I'm using 2:1 granite to diatomacious earth. Seems to hold enough water, but I'm uncertain about nutrient retention. Succulents, pothos, and spider plants are growing in it, but they're probably too hardy to make good test subjects. I know the Draceana will survive in it. I'm just not certain I'll get the fastest growth. Wish I had 2 Draceana so I could plant them in different media. (Crap, now I've sown that seed in my brain and there will be no resisting the impulse when I see another on sale... I'm an addict.)

If no one else weighs in here, I'll go for the grit, and at the same time, do some side-by-side comparisons with faster-growing plants in my grit vs. other media. I'll also document the Draceana. It'll be fun. :-).

I think you'll be particularly happy with a medium that supports very little or no perched water. Treat it much like a succulent. BTW - succulents react to drought stress just like other plants do. The idea that succulents like to go dry before watering comes from the assumption you'll be using a soil the plant doesn't like - one that remains saturated too long after a good watering. It's true that the plant would rather go dry for awhile than remain wet for too long. The smart grower uses a soil that doesn't require choosing one of two evils. ;-)

Al

Yup.

And if I were smarter,I'd figure out a way to make a suitable mix that doesn't collapse and suffocate roots.

Been thinking lately that a lot of the aerial root growth I get under glass is in actuality the plant's response to being in something too similar to anaerobic mud for it's tastes...effectively the mission is to reach out for a foothold in something more breathable.

Seems every time I can actually get out of the apartment,anyplace I go just doesn't have the stuff I came for. Really sucks.

That's life for dim bulbs like me. ;)

Would totally experiment with gritty if I had a pile of it pre made in front of me. Something tells me if I had a couple gallons to play with,I'd end up needing a truckload or more. I see myself becoming as obsessed with it as everyone else who has been lucky enough to get their hands some.

Would mixing pea gravel with it be workable,or is that a no no?

If the gritty mix was as simplistic as it seems, you would have to say an inordinate amount of thought went into how to put it all together so it embodies the idea that soils that hold water IN the particles and air BETWEEN the particles offer plants the best opportunity to realize their genetic potential. It's hard to argue that soils which limit growth and vitality by way of the fact that they hold excess water that limits root function, or worse, could be better for plants.

Focusing on media that are structured so excess water isn't an inherently limiting factor, and taking on the responsibility for providing for the plants nutritive needs will serve any grower well.

One of the most frequent raps against the gritty mix is that it doesn't hold enough water. That complaint is a good illustration that the grower paid more attention to the recipe than to the concept behind it. If you don't think the gritty mix holds enough water, simply change the ratio of Turface and grit to favor Turface. Instantly, you create more water retention w/o having to rely on the vitality-sapping soggy layer at the bottom of pot as a reservoir.

The ingredients in the gritty mix are of a size that ensures the most water retention w/o any perched water to speak of. When you start changing sizes or adding a little of this and that, you run the risk of putting out of reach what the mix was designed to offer. If you understand the concept, you'll know what is and isn't appropriate.

You should be able to find either Turface or calcined DE in MN - easily. #2 cherrystone is mined in New Ulm, MN, so that should be a snap. That leaves you to come up with a bark source, which is easier to find in the spring/summer than fall/winter.

I was going to try to help you locate, but apparently there is no such place as Rochopolis, MN.

Al

Thanks for your input, Al. I'm glad to hear about the ratios because I've been playing with them a bit - enough that I'm now labeling the mix each plant is in. It'd be nice to water everyone on the same days.

"Asleep," is it the DM you can't find? I bought a 30# bag for $10 from an auto parts store. I looked around and found that just about every auto parts store carries DM to soak up spills like oil & coolant. They also carry a clay product, so read the labels. They all put their own brand name on the DM, but it's made by Moltan, and says so on the label. It has better than 50% water retention by volume right out of the bag.

If it's bark that's the problem, I read another post in which someone used Repti-Bark from a pet store. It is sold as reptile bedding, and according to her, is already nearly the right size, so there's little waste. It is a relatively expensive way to get bark though. Otherwise, I'd try it myself. You could also do like I am and leave out the bark.

Al, what prevents a grower from just using straight DM? What's the advantage (other than weight), or adding granite?

"Rochopolis" is my sense of humor acting up. Slang for rochester.

Even if I get directions I have no car and live on a severely fixed income,but would love to do whatever I can within my means and welcome the help anyway.

For the record I have no beef with the gritty and have been curious about working with it,though not enough to motivate myself into action...I'm a complete slug sometimes.

On average how much does a whole batch cost and what volume do you get for the money?

Kwie,in all honesty I hadn't even taken the first step...I just adopted the usual defeatist mentality and well....there ya go. lol

I'm also on a severely fixed income, so I completely understand.

A 30# bag of DM is huge. If it were practical to ship, I'd send you half because I don't really have room to store it. It's about the size of 3 cheap foam pillows, or a couple of the puffy ones from Walmart.

The granite is much heavier. A 50# bag is smaller than a standard bag of charcoal briquettes, or a regular bag of cat litter. If I recall, the Gran-i-Grit cost just under $15. I think it's available from about any feed or farm store - sold as chicken scratch. Some farm stores might sell it in bulk like they do cracked corn, oyster shell, etc.

Both products are already an appropriate particle size, so you can get away with just rinsing the dust away so it doesn't form silt. A kitchen strainer works, but I'm using a plastic plant pot. I mix just enough for whatever I'm repotting at the time.

I think gypsum and Epson salt work for calcium and magnesium, but I'm using Foliage Pro liquid fertilizer because it already has everything so I don't have to mess with it. Fertilizer will be the most expensive part, but the grit itself is so much cheaper than potting soil that I don't think it'll be a significant expense over time.

I'd been growing some plants in screened pumice since the summer, and they have done well. Pumice only has about 20-25% water retention, so you'd think things like spider plants and pothos wouldn't be happy, but they are. Their success helped give me the courage to invest in the whole idea. I recognized Al's concept as solid, but it is hard to take the leap because it's just so foreign. It's like planting in kitty litter.

The western Oregon gloom and rain began today: the dreaded season of rot is here. It's a good time for me to pot-up a couple more plants! I'll let you know how the Draceana does, and the others. If you want to experiment with a small batch, I'm happy to send you a flat-rate Priority box of it. Just pay shipping. That'll be relatively expensive for a small amount, but you could try it before investing more.

A big part of my problem is that I'm something of a "shut in",and seldom ever leave the apartment. I've been here in roch for more than four years and know next to nothing of the place...BUT,as the midwest is farm country,a feed and seed shouldn't be too hard to find. At least it would be easier than finding someone with the patience necessary to give me a ride and put up with me piddling around in and out of stores on what would look like some deranged scavenger hunt. lol

Sometimes I imagine using straight pea gravel as a medium. Heaven knows THAT would drain well.

Of course all that I had is used up at the moment,and the source I got it from(can't beat free!)is regrettably no longer available to me.

I've wondered whether it would be doable to chop up pine bark into suitable sized bits,and if that would work.

I've grown in straight pumice with good results. I think it holds more water than pea gravel though. If you have the patience to break it up and sift it, I don't see why straight bark wouldn't work. Pumice and bark might also be a decent mix if you sift it, and you might find both at a "forest products" center, landscaping company, etc.

I don't know if Al will check this thread again, but I'm really curious whether DM alone isn't just as good. Auto parts stores are everywhere, and the Moltan stuff is dirt cheap. Then at least you'd have just one.stop rather than a scavenger hunt. I so wish it were practical to ship the stuff! I'm sitting on a pile of it I'd be happy to share.

Oh hey!

Somehow I missed that the first time(sorry about that).

As tempting an offer as that is,I really have to avoid expenditures,even minor ones,right now. Money's pretty tight. The off and on job I had is no doubt a thing of the past now. The guy I was working for made excuses instead of paying me for a job I'd invested 23 hours on expecting pay...jerk.

Anyhoo...the good news is that I think a parts store may be within walking distance...might look into that tomorrow.

Thanks for the encouragement. :)

Glad to help! :-).

I repotted the Draceana in a larger pot in 2:1 granite to DM today. The soil was barely moist and the roots looked very good, except they were wrapped around and around the bottom of the pot. It will feel better with more room to wiggle its toes for sure.

And here it is in its new pot.

Wha am I missing? What is DM?

Did you bare root before repotting?

There is no way that plant is drying out in 2 days in that much soil and minimal root colonization of the soil mass. It wouldn't dry out in 5 days, even if it was all grit. I bet, if you pick that pot up and move it sharply straight down for 6-12" then sharply reverse the direction, you'll still have water exiting the bottom of the pot.

If your plant wilts during the day & then perks up at night, you're definitely over-watering. Buy a 1/4 or 5/16 wood dowel, cut it in half or thirds, sharpen both ends in a pencil sharpener, and stick it deep in the soil to see if the plant actually NEEDS water before you water again.

PS - repotting dracaena in the fall, winter, or early spring can easily lead to over-watering issues because the roots recolonize the soil mass so slowly.

Al

Hi Al. I have to use my phone for Internet. DM is auto-corrected from DE - diatomaceous earth. Sorry about that.

Yes, I bare-rooted it, washed the roots, and spread them out in the pot.

It is all grit, no soil, no bark. I don't have a place to sift messy bark fines in my tiny apartment, so you and I discussed it and left them out.

I use exactly the method you describe to get the excess water out of the bottom of the grit after I water this plant. (It seems an enormous pot to me). I don't do it hard enough to get more than a couple tablespoons though. I don't know why I hadn't thought to do that when it wilted.

I have done the dowel test though, a number of times, and it comes out dry. I use meat skewers, which are actually bamboo, but that should make little difference. If I leave the skewer in the grit and just pull it out when I'm testing the wetness, the skewer is always damp. If I just shove one into it for a few seconds to test it, it comes out dry. I don't know the optimum amount of time to leave it in. Suggestions?

When it wilts, I water it, so I don't know if it would perk up on its own overnight. That's an interesting observation though. With soil it's easy to tell why something wilts.

I've been watering it every two days since it last wilted, so I'll return to the previous twice weekly schedule and see if it releases any water with the shake test before watering it again.

It is growing surprisingly fast. I cut a broken leaf off of it just a week or so ago, and I'm surprised to see the leftover stub has grown about 1/2 inch. That seems a lot for a Draceana in mid-winter in this climate. All but my succulents, Sansevieria, and Beaucarnea have been growing quite fast all fall & winter though, despite the cold and gloom here. The only exception was a pothos in straight DE, but that took off after changing to 2:1 mix.

Thanks for your help, Al. I'll let you know if I get any water out of the pot in a couple days.

In case anyone's following this, the thread Al's referring to is below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Draceana and increasing disenchantment...