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amccour

Norfolk Island Pine clarification.

amccour
16 years ago

I just got one of these from a friend.

Three things I've been getting conflicting information on.

The ones you usually see in stores are either multiple plants in the same pots, or single plants with multiple shoots/trunks -- I think it's called coppicing? I've heard some people say to seperate the seperate plants and trim them down to a single trunk, whereas other people have said that leaving them all together is fine and that seperating them can actually cause an immense amount of stress. I assume that if planting outside, having a single trunk is desirable, whereas it matters less in a pot (although it would presumably make them rootbound quicker?) I also am assuming that some of the additional trunks/plants will die off and just leave the healthier ones.

Second, watering. Do I or do I not let it dry out at all between waterings? Some people say let the first inch or so get dry before adding water. Other people say that any sort of dryness in the soil will start knocking back the feeder (?) roots and cause branch drop (Granted, Norfolk Island Palm Trees have their own sort of charm ;P) the other method I've heard is to stick to a tight watering schedule, which involves soaking the soil, letting the excess run off, and just sticking to that. I don't want branch drop from drying out, but rot sound potentially far, far more dangerous. The soil is quite thick and drains nicely, so there would never be *standing water* or tons of liquid surrounding the roots. In this case, how wet should I keep it?

Third, and this is more or less a general question about misting, but I've heard that doing it to Norfolk pines is a good idea -- specifically, in this case, using slightly cool water. I've also heard that misting, say, zebra plants and alocasias is a good idea (at least partially to clean the leaves and make the environment inhospitable for spiders mights?). However, I believe it's tapla that mentions that misting is usually ineffective. Is it always ineffective, or can it actually be effective if done several times throughout the day? Also, I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of misting is -- is it entirely to raise humidity in the vicinity of the plant, or is it also to cool down leaf tissue, or do some plants absorb water through the leaves as per bromeliads? Is there a point of too much misting?

Actually, here's a fourth point I just thought about. I've also read they don't like being touched much and can lose branches from this. Obviously, it would've been somewhat jostled during the act of getting it to the store, purchasing it from the store, and transporting it to my house. I've also "untangled" a few of the branches that had sort of gotten caught on eachother in the process. Have I already doomed the thing, or does this refer more to constant and persistant touching over a period of time?

Comments (17)

  • mr_subjunctive
    16 years ago

    You're likely to continue to get a range of answers on some of these questions; there are lots of people who have successfully kept Norfolk Island pines for a long time, and it would be sort of surprising to me if they all did the exact same things. Part of the reason why houseplants are houseplants is that they tend to be able to cope with a range of treatment. That said, here are my own personal answers:

    1) I don't personally worry that much about groups of plants that are together. Mostly this is because I think individuals, unless perfectly cared for, have a tendency to look kind of sparse and pathetic, and a group of plants at different heights camouflages that. It's probably better for the individual plants not to be crowded this way: plants with a head start on their root systems could easily crowd out and kill smaller plants. But there are concessions I'm willing to make to my NIPs and concessions I'm not. This is one where I'm not.

    2) I'm in the first-inch camp with my plants at home; the ones at work get a much wider range of treatments (from constantly wet to halfway dry) and don't seem, so far, to have been badly affected by any of them. Temperature seems to influence branch drop a lot more than moisture level, is my impression, though $2 and a pocket full of anecdotal observations will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. My growers' guide reference book says to "let the medium dry a bit," which could mean a lot of different things.

    3) We don't mist at work, because the humidity level is already high and there's little to be gained from throwing even more water around. I do sometimes at home, especially in the summeriest parts of summer and the winteriest parts of winter, when the AC / heat is going full blast all the time. I can't say I have any real proof that it helps, but they clearly don't like hot, dry conditions, and misting is one way to cool and moisten them, even if only briefly, so I do it. I would think that this is one case where if a little is good, a lot is better: their natural environment is cool and moist all the time, so the closer you can get to that, the happier they should be.

    4) They mean more persistent touching over a long period. As in, don't put one in the center of a hallway, where it will be brushed by people every time anybody has to go anywhere. Branches also have a tendency to die if they're stuck in a corner without being rotated out occasionally, regardless of the kind of care you're giving the plant otherwise.

  • senga
    16 years ago

    I've been able to keep mine well and happy for four past winters inside. It needs temps. little cooler then we usually like to have inside, and more humidity. Mine is in plant room with temps around 60F and humidity at 60-70%. Summers outside, out of direct sun. When comes to watering, try if soil feels dry, do not water on schedule. As far as misting, I would rather put it on tray of pebbles. I never trimmed it or tried to separate, mine is one plant at 6ft, with two smaller ones at around 2ft each. I can see that the large one dominates significantly over others, I mean they grow in much slower pace. Actualy you have to look very closely to see small ones, they stay so close to the trunk. There was a thread some time ago about trimming NP, try to search it, but they do not branch out. When it comes to loosing needles due to people brushing against them, I would rather worry about humans being pricked. I handle mine wearing heavy duty work gloves. I heard they do not like company of other plants, but to tell the truth it would be cruel to other plants and to yourself to put them close together, since leaves can tear and it would be murder for you to take proper care of its neighbours.

  • amccour
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    "Branches also have a tendency to die if they're stuck in a corner without being rotated out occasionally, regardless of the kind of care you're giving the plant otherwise."

    How well, then, do they put up to the whole pot being moved gently? I have a place closer to my window that I'd like to put it, but it gets a bit too cold at night for it and I don't know whether moving it this much would be a bad thing. I'm guessing it's not recommendable.

    Somewhat less related to plant care, the branches on mine aren't... Well, I actually don't know the word for it, but you have a main branch, and the little sidebranches. In a lot of the tress I see, the sidebranches are right across from eachother. In mine they're more staggered.

    I checked to make sure none of the side-branches got broken off, and they hadn't. Was wondering if it was a Cook Pine instead, but they seem to have the above type of symmetry too.

  • mr_subjunctive
    16 years ago

    I haven't actually known NIPs to be too upset about getting moved, though obviously if you're moving it to some really dark, hot, dry spot it's not going to handle it well.

    The corner thing is, I think, just because the part of the plant that "faces" the corner is getting less air circulation and light than the rest of the plant, so if it decides to drop branches, those are the branches it picks to drop.

    Don't know on the symmetry thing. Is a photo possible?

  • amccour
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I'll get a picture of the branches next week. I don't have a USB chord on hand.

    I've also notice that the side branches start out farther on the main branch than I see in pictures -- as in, in pictures, the branches start "forking" pretty close to the trunk, whereas on mine I've got the trunk, the branch, and then about three inches of nothing before the side branches show up. It doesn't actually look like anything dropped or got broken off (there are a few lower broken branches -- only one or two, but they left very obvious scars).

    It also only has, at the top, three branches radiating from it. I've also seen four and five, so I'm not really sure if this means anything.

    It also seems to have glitter on it. I have no idea why people spray that on them because it looks very unnatractive. Hopefully it'll come off eventually. Then again, I'm sure that most people buying them are in the adorable living Christmas tree camp, and not in the unreasonable interest in quasi-prehistoric trees camp.

  • sojournak_yahoo_com
    16 years ago

    I've just purchased a Norfolk Island Pine with the glitter. Will the glitter kill the plant? How can I gently remove this?

    Any other gardening/care tips for a Norfolk Island Pine newbie?

    Thanks!

  • amccour
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    From what I can tell the glitter's on with some light adhesive. I imagine that when the plant grows, the stuff'll start breaking down. My main concern is that it seems to have adhering some of the needles at the growth tips and I don't know if this will cause problems or not.

  • mr_subjunctive
    16 years ago

    If it's a small enough plant, swishing it through some warm (not hot!) soapy water should be enough to get the majority of the glitter off. For a bigger plant, you may just have to stand it in the shower next time you water (and maybe every time you water for a few months), and see how that goes.

    Couldn't say for certain that will or won't hurt the plant, but I wouldn't expect it to.

  • amccour
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I have a question on light, actually, which came up in the thread about plants for low light, drafty locations.

    I know they usually need brighter light, but I don't know if mine's in alright coniditions. Not entirely sure on the window direction, but it's a fairly large window -- about four feet tall and maybe six to eight feet long. The plant is on a desk which is roughly level with the window, about seven feet away. I'm on the forth floor, so there's absolutely no shade outside. Should I try moving it closer to the window?

    I also try to keep the overhead flourescent light on quite a bit. I know that's not really overly useful, but I heard if it's on long enough it can be an alright augmentation.

  • mr_subjunctive
    16 years ago

    I personally think fluorescents are worth more than most people give them credit for. I have a lot of my plants in spots where fluorescent light is the main source of light they get* and they seem to be doing okay. Ambient office lighting may not be enough, but a 48-inch fluorescent shop light a foot away does many plants just fine. Just to make that clear.

    The impression I have is that while Araucaria will survive in low light, over time they will reach for light and wind up leggy. If yours has been in the same spot long enough to produce new growth, and so far the new growth is proportional to the old growth, I wouldn't worry about it. More light might make for quicker growth or a healthier plant, and if you have an easy way to move the desk closer to the window, take it (it could only help the plant -- seven feet away is far enough that the light intensity will drop off a lot, even though you have a pretty big window), but I wouldn't lay awake nights worrying about it or disrupt your whole life to make it happen. I've seen them make do with less.

    *(At the moment: Plectranthus, Hoya, Epipremnum, Asplenium, Aspidistra, Aglaonema, Pilea, Philodendron, Dieffenbachia, Anthurium, Codiaeum, Senecio, Spathiphyllum, Monstera, Ficus, Ardisia, Tradescantia, Chlorophytum, Begonia, Cyrtomium, Dizygotheca, Cissus, Dracaena, Cordyline)

  • amccour
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Hm. Figure I'd revive this with some new questions (Not about mine -- It's doing pretty good, although I'll need to compensate for lower humidity and weird lighting for the next three weeks). This is more about some of the ones I've seen in stores around town.

    From my understanding, when NIPs are water-stressed, they drop the lower branches, or get yellow growing tips. I see a lot of NIPs in stores, though, that have alright lower branches, but the top branches are quite brown. It's odd because it's not a dead, dry sort of brown, but a very reddish sort of brown, and the needles still seem... relatively alive.

    Second, for some of the NIPs I've seen that've been growing for awhile -- some lovely ones in a bookstore in town, actually -- I've noticed something with broken growth tips. I've heard that once the tip is gone, they won't grow from that point anymore, but I've seen a lot of cases where the plant puts out what I guess is, basically, a new branch from right behind the growing tip. So you have your old, broken branch, with a new one growing on top if it, sort of. Is this normal? I think it looks sort of neat, actually.

  • jeannie7
    16 years ago

    Amccour, aside from how you treat the trunks, remember the Norfolk Island Pine is a tree that should be given space to grow.

    In a few years if you feel your ceiling is preventing it going up any futher, cutting it back at the top stops it growing....forever. Try to remove minimally any side branches because this is the beauty of the tree.

    Norfolk Island Pine is a living Christmas Tree...but don't consider putting tree lights on it. Tenderly hanging light decorations and tinsel is OK.
    Norfolk Island Pine is also a tree that must be kept a houseplant unless you reside in zone 9 or 10....and 9 can be iffy.
    Actually, some people say the best place to grow a Norfolk Island Pine.......is on Norfolk Island in the South Pacific.

    Your plant should be allowed to dry down somewhat between waterings and it will use a lot less water now when the sun is at its lowest. It will not appreciate too cold of water...so letting it sit overnight to gain room temperature is recommended. And don't let the branches touch the cold window glass.
    And water should not be from a well that is treated.
    As long as it is receiving light from a southern or western exposure it should do fine.

    Senga, you mention your room where you have your N.I.P. has a humidity level of 60 - 70%.....
    Is this by way of measurement of a hygrometer or just an estimate of what you think it is.
    The way I figure such a high level as that I suspect the walls and windows must be running down with moisture drops constantly.

    Thirty-five to forty percent is a common level of a home with a furnace on recording a temperature of 65 - 70º
    I'm just curious why you would have such a high humidity in a room. How do you attain such humidity. It speaks of running a humidifier to reach such level.
    Does this not cause problems of many sorts from other rooms as well.

  • senga
    16 years ago

    Yes, i do have hydrometer in almost every location in my house wherever plants that require higher humidity are overwintering.
    I have humidifier running 24/7 with build in hydrostat so it shuts off when reaches desired %. I do not have mildew or any other problems in any part of my house( I have additional humidifiers on at night in three bedrooms, plus after somebody showers I keep the bathroom door open to distribute humid air), When temps outside are above freezing and sunny, every room in my house has an open window for about two hours, depending on temps. I have about 250 plants inside and work at home, so luckily can do my rounds two or three times a day.
    I can not imagine sleeping in the room with the air at 30 or 40%. All night long I will sneeze, caugh and would hear everybody else do the same. Besides I found out it is healthier for all your wood at home, as I have a lot of antiques, and main enemy to old wood is dry air, I lost many nice pieces before I found that out.

  • senga
    16 years ago

    To the person asking about brown needles, that are still alive:
    it happened to my araucaria last summer, I put it outside in the shade, but for about maybe half hour in the morning sun was getting to it directly. It got brown spots on one top branch, they are just discolored, did not dry or fell off

  • amccour
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    "In a few years if you feel your ceiling is preventing it going up any futher, cutting it back at the top stops it growing....forever. Try to remove minimally any side branches because this is the beauty of the tree."

    I wasn't planning on cutting it back. I was talking more about accidental breakage on other trees I've seen.

  • monkeyire_comcast_net
    13 years ago

    my very tall and mature NIP toppled over. One of the top branches (there are 4 each a layer ) cracked but did not completely detach at the trunk. I've propped it up against a bookshelf hoping it will grow back. Is there some kind of root gel or something that would help it re-attach or is this NIP at the end of its normal life. I have had it for about 30 years, it is almost too big for the ceiling. thanks.

  • DorisPoris
    10 years ago

    I am learning about my NIP (potted)! I moved to a new apartment with a wonderful east/northeast facing terrace, put my plants out, and Oops! Most of them started to stress in the sun! ( I am a novice, here.) Some of the needles burned on the NIP. I thought it would die. THEN I really started reading about it: No direct sun, cool temp, moist soil. Regarding touch, I began lightly massaging branches apologetically from stem outward soon after I brought the plant in out of the sun. It had started to get new growth on the tips, and that is continuing, not really attributed to the massage. But I think the massaging helped. The brown needles flake off little by little with the massaging. The leader on top is about one inch now, four months after the initial shock, and it looks like it has four buds/sections to it. I recently broke one new tip off by mistake and hope this will regenerate. Please advise if you can for this one tip. Thank you!

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