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Any Chemists in the Crowd?

Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 7, 10 at 1:09

I've seen Bayer Advanced Complete Brand Insect Killer For Soil & Turf (or closely related products) mentioned a few times in various places, including here on Gardenweb, as a possible solution for mealybugs on indoor plants. The problems is that, although quite a few people seem to consider it, no one that I've seen actually reports experience using the product this way. I realize that this is an off-label use of this product, and theoretically it may be unsafe or not proven safe. What I'm wondering is if anyone really has a feel for just how safe or unsafe it might be. I'm fairly sure that Bayer will not even discuss off-label uses, so contacting customer service is probably not an option. Anyone have personal experience or scientifically based thoughts?

I will attach a link to the product label, below. BTW, the active ingredients are Imidacloprid and Beta-cyfluthrin.

Also, I know there is a Bayer Advanced for houseplants, but I'm specifically interested in using the first product for various reasons (ease of application, don't need the fertilizer part of the product, frequency of use, net cost, I already have the first product on hand, etc).

Here is a link that might be useful: Click on the view label button on the Concentrate 40 oz for product label.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

  • Posted by rennet 5: Toronto, Canada (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 7, 10 at 15:25

Imidacloprid is a nicotine analogue and is not particularly toxic to animals other than insects.
β-cyfluthrin is also non-toxic to humans but is an irritant if you get it on your skin or in your eyes.

Follow basic chemical safety guidelines; Wear gloves when diluting the mixture, avoid touching your face or eyes during and after use. Wear safety goggles if you plan on aerosolizing it, and avoid inhaling the mixture. Wash your hands and exposed skin with soap and water. Don't dispose of excess down the sink, or near bodies of water: β-cyfluthrin is highly toxic to fish.


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

You have GOT to be kidding, brandon! (And rennet, too.)

The label CLEARLY says (in large print) that this product is for OUTDOOR RESIDENTIAL USE ONLY. Can't get much clearer than that.

The label also says that it is against Federal law to use this product in a manner not consistent with the label.

Be the intelligent person I know you are and get the stuff that is manufactured to be used inside. There are reasons you must not use this product in your home.

By the way, 'off-label' uses would include such things as using it to kill an insect that is not on the label. Off label uses must be CONSISTENT with the labeling.


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 7, 10 at 23:35

Thanks rennet! I appreciate your input. I guess the one thing I'm still a little concerned about is whether the product or components are volatile enough to be irritating once they've been applied during a normal watering. The label seems to indicate that it's safe for children and pets to re-enter the area once the product dries.

I guess the obvious solution would be to apply the product outside and then bring each plant inside after a few hours. The problem with that is that I'd be moving a very large number of plants.
_____________________________

Rhizo_1, I read the label, but I'm a rebel and don't always limit myself to doing exactly what I'm told. Very often labels don't include possible uses, not because the product won't work that way or because it might not be safe, but simply because the product has not been sufficiently tested to make it legally possible for the manufacturer to list the use. It's often very burdensome for the manufacturers to make claims about products. It's easier if they only make the claims necessary to sell their product. That doesn't mean the product wouldn't be a great solution for other situations. I don't want to do something that's dangerous, but I also know that labels don't always tell the whole story.


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

  • Posted by rennet 5: Toronto, Canada (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 8, 10 at 0:13

You can look up information on the national pesticide information center website.
There are no MSDS sheets for these chemicals, but they are safe for use and are not irritant after application. Any residual surface chemicals will photodegrade.
See: http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/imidacloprid.pdf

In any and all cases, use appropriate caution.
If you must use them, I'd recommend applying the chemicals outdoors and allowing sufficient time for all surfaces to dry.


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

Thanks again rennet. I think I will do as you say and apply outside. I hate to spend most of a day lugging all my plants outdoors and back in, but I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.

Now all I need is a otherwise-work-free, sunny, warm day. Hmmm... LOL


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

Any reason not to use something like Marathon? A small amount in the pot and voila, bugs are gone pretty quickly and stay gone for a few months. No need to take them outside, no spraying, little risk to lungs, skin, etc.

There is also a Bayer Product for indoor use - 2 in 1 Insect control - unfortunately it has fertilizer, but at least it's designed for the use you want and is much easier to use than the outdoor product


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

  • Posted by rennet 5: Toronto, Canada (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 8, 10 at 9:12

@lathyrus
If you take a quick look at Marathon's MSDS, you'll find that it's the same chemical.
http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp7BD003.pdf

The β-cyfluthrin mixed into the Bayer concentrate is non-toxic and anything I've listed is just a precaution.


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd? 2

  • Posted by rennet 5: Toronto, Canada (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 8, 10 at 9:14

Oh here we are, β-cyfluthrin MSDS:
http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/standardlists/msds/6840-01-383-6251_msds.pdf


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RE: Any Chemists in the Crowd?

Rennet, that's why I suggested it. It's not airborne - it's in powder form. It makes it much easier to work with - no taking them outside, spraying, etc.


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