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I give up

Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 18, 12 at 10:59

I have done everything except change the soil in these plants to get rid of the gnats. Granted they arent as bad as they were a few months ago, but they still exist and its annoying. They seem to favor the peace lily. This isnt an issue of overwatering or the plant being too moist because I just let the become dry as a bone and they are still hanging out. @$&!:$&@!!!!!!!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: I give up

You've answered your own question.

Change the soil. Fungus gnats feed on the decomposing matter (peat) in your potting mix.


Josh


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RE: I give up

I had them in here too, I use OM in the pots and they were all outside, so not unexpected (and fun to watch the anoles eat them while they're all outside.)

Have you had some wilting? Not that I advocate such, but unless/until that happens, it really isn't bone dry. The plants will school ya' about that. Some of my plants still don't need a drink a month after coming inside but the gnats are gone from generally letting all of the pots dry up.

If there's excess soil not yet occupied by roots, you can get a wilty plant in a pot that isn't yet dry. If you think that may be happening, that's hard to fix via culture alone since you can't let the full volume of soil go bone dry. You can use a spray bottle to put a very small amount of water right at the base of the plant, just enough to help it rebound without adding more moisture to the outer soil. Like 1-2 squirts. Maybe another squirt in an hour, repeating hourly until you see improvement. If you can get the excess soil to dry this way, while keeping the plant from wilting, you can get rid of them.

This is a good way in general to give plants that prefer to stay quite dry a sip. Like a sans or jade. And when combating FG's, taking a pot to the sink for a good soak is not necessary and detrimental to the cause. Moisten the surface enough to keep the plant plump and un-wilty, but not enough that it stays moist long enough to host FG's. The surface may seem dry again to you in an hour or two, but the plant is likely good to go for at least a few days again now.

I also use this technique if I've stuck a cutting of something in an existing plants' pot. The cutting may begin to wilt long before the original occupant of the pot. A small squirt or two of water right at the base of the cutting generally allows the cutting to get the drink it needs without adding excess moisture (and associated toxins from tap water) throughout the pot.

Once you see/feel a plant wilt, you should be able to recognize it before it is so obvious/advanced the next time. Actual wilting is something I would avoid even if it meant possibly prolonging the gnats, but that hasn't been necessary IME. If you're nervous that wilt may become advanced before you recognize it, post a pic of the PL or any other plant every day/every other day. Folks will help you see when it starts happening. If you think you have plants potted like this (which I think is fine, but...) you may want to avoid heavily soaking/flushing often if at all until you are confident there are roots throughout the pot or you can put the plants outside where some sun and more air movement will help them use water quicker, and cause the pots to dry more quickly or you see any kind of deposits forming in the soil. About every other month would be the most often I would do heavy soaking on any plants inside during the colder/shorter-day months that aren't using water very quickly in relation to the pot size, and many plants don't get any soaking while inside at all.

On the other end of the scope (where I don't think any of your plants are, but...) is the potbound plant. For fighting FG's in that situation, brief/small sips via bottom watering can get rid of them, allowing the lower soil to moisten while keeping the surface dry. I would probably just repot that though, and ideally I did that well before they came inside where necessary. One would really have to be a dedicated overwaterer to grow FG's in a badly potbound plant though, IMO.

You may want to investigate what that stuff is that people put in the water to kill the larvae. I've never tried it, but am pretty confident I'll recognize either visual wilt or physical loss of turgidity in plants that can't wilt, like a Sans, and my efforts to rid them via culture have been successful.

Well I feel like the more I typed, the less it made sense... but I know it works, so just ask...


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RE: I give up

Gosh, purple wrote you a book! Great tips there!

I also want to ask--/ how many gnats are we talking? I see a few gnats in my kitchen daily. (Where most of the plants are). Sometimes they are around the plants, sometimes around the sink. There are only a few, not swarms, and they do not fly out of the soil when I water. I do not overthink the existence of these gnats. They are just one of those things that are common in some places (like palmetto bugs I dealt with when i lived in Georgia)


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RE: I give up

"This is a good way in general to give plants that prefer to stay quite dry a sip. Like a sans or jade."

Sorry, but I've got to respectfully disagree w/ what Purple said above, at least about growing succulents indoors (I only grow indoors). This would be particularly bad advice for Sans. or Jades, it's like to to rot both, in particular the Sans (when one waters at the base of the plant as suggested).

Purple, maybe that works for you, but for our newer growers it'd likely spell disaster (IMO).

Tiff, just pls. do as Josh said above, change the mix completely.


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 18, 12 at 13:38

PurpleTiff: thanks for the advice. Alot to think about and consider. My philo cuttings were wilting but no I guess nothing else was wilting so to speak. Cant say I would ever let that happen though, it would scare the crap out of me that the plant was dying. I say bone dry because after sticking a skewer in the soil, which is how I monitor soil dampness with all the plants I have, the skewer comes up dry.

Rach- there isnt swarms of them by any means. In my peace lily, I stir the top layer of soil around and this wakes them up to crawl. I would say roughly there are 10 of them in a 9 inch pot. And that is a highball estimate. I see 2 or 3 flying here and there around some of the plants. But strangely, when I stir the other pots soil I dont see them.

I will mostly change the soil come spring. I dont want to upset any of them right now. Many of them have new growth sprouting and are doing well how they are for the moment. The stupid gnats arent a super big issue, just a nuisence at this point. Was hoping there was another way.

Karen, thanks for your advice as well. Although I am still kind of a newbie I feel confident enough that if I took Purples advice Everything would be ok. Yeah there is still alot I dont know but there is alot I do and I am pretty comfortable with things now. Not saying I wont need some help from the experts down the line. But that bottom watering thing I get and understand the concept. Thanks though for being concerned!!

As always you all are awesome!


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RE: I give up

PG, just to clarify, the squirt bottle I have takes at least 25 squirts to dispense an ounce of water. If I try to dribble a sip of water with a watering can, WAY more water than I want comes out, no matter how carefully or slowly I try to do it. The water runs right through and makes a mess. So I'm talking about an amount of water a plant will "drink" instantly. Unless I get out an eye dropper, there's no other way to dispense a smaller amount of water, especially to bone dry, hydrophobic soil.


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RE: I give up

I collect rain water and store it in 5 gallon buckets. In each bucket I put about a tablespoon of ground up mosquito dunks (Bacillus thuringiensis v. israelensis). This does a number on fungus gnat larvae. The adults may live for two weeks or so, but it breaks the cycle.

I have not heard if chlorine/chloramine in city water affects the bacteria or not, so that may change your results.

tj


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RE: I give up

Very good.
Yes, re-potting including root-pruning will be best next Summer when the plants are
vital again. With a change of soil, not only will the gnats be gone, but you'll be able
to water to your heart's content without the fear of the mix staying wet for too long.

I take my Jades and my lone Sansevieria to the kitchen sink, turn on the hose-sprayer,
and douse my plants thoroughly until I can feel that the mix is heavy with moisture again.
Watering delivers Oxygen to the root-zone, which is why top-watering copiously is such a
benefit (as long as the mix allows for proper watering).


Josh


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RE: I give up

Hi Tiffer!

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the gnats aren't too crazy about you either? :-)

Charlie


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RE: I give up

Charlie, man you crack me up ;-)

Josh


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by Drock Z5 Boulder, CO (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 19, 12 at 0:51

This thread reminded me of the following Plants are the Strangest People blog entry...

Here is a link that might be useful: Fungus Gnats: Like Puppies That Try To Fly Up Your Nose


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RE: I give up

Ha! They only seem to bother me when I'm eating chocolate. They aren't interested in the actual chocolate, just me when I'm eating it. Strange.

Josh, be careful copiously watering Sans inside during winter. Some people don't water Sans all winter, and mine never get soaked like that while inside. One I was watering daily in the hot sun hasn't been watered since coming inside 11/25. I'm sure we're talking apples vs. oranges as far as the soil in our pots, but they are still Sans.


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RE: I give up

Purple~
I have a few succulents that are to be kept relatively dry in the winter in the same mixes as Josh is using, and they do very well with an occasional watering as Josh does. Jades and Aloes. If the mix is fast and well draining, as we use, then our plants roots are just getting enough moisture to keep the roots from drying out.

I'm lazy though and instead of the kitchen sink, I put them on a grate over a bucket and flood them . lol..

I had a few Aloes that I didn't get moved to the gritty mix outside , and were in a commercial mix. They have croaked. :-(

Charlie~ I'm the same as Josh! Had a good laugh on that one!

I recently had these darn bugs in the kitchen after some bananas I let get very ripe for bread. I just had my son vacuum up the little buggers with the crevice attachment. It was like a video game trying to get them as they fly. lol.. Kept him busy and amused. ;-)

JoJo


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RE: I give up

Jojo, I love that bucket method. That may come in handy here soon, thanks! Sounds like I still have a lot to learn about the other stuff people use in pots, and look forward to more anecdotes of extreme drainage mixes. I have one experimental pot with a mostly-gravel mix someone sent me to try but I haven't lived with it long enough yet to draw any conclusions.

Do you think you may have had fruit flies instead of fungus gnats?


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RE: I give up

Hello Everyone,

Tiff..Besides the great suggestions mentioned, why not try Yellow Sticky Traps?

They work great, catch gnats and whitefly by the hundreds. And no chemicals.
Sticky Traps are reusable, too.

Traps come with a metal attachment to hold in place or a trap can be set atop soil.

If you decide to try traps, check different nurseries and Ebay. Some sellers tend to over-charge.

About repotting. Via many plant books, authorities agree Spaths can be repotted year round.

I understand your afraid because of new growth, but come spring there will be newer growth, too, so there's nothing to worry about.

Gnats usually come about when soil is kept constantly moist, stale, unmoving air, and too humid or dry.
Since your soil dries, perhaps it's dry and stuffy air?

Try the traps AND don't give up. :)


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RE: I give up

Hi Purple,
There is plenty to learn, and Josh is one of the one's that knows how it all works, and knows his plants. ;-) He's one of the ones I go to.

Have you read any of the links in the container forum for the Gritty Mix and the 5-1-1 ?

I don't know much about house plants, just have a few. but when it comes to succulents, that are in a dormant or semi dormant stage, they still need some moisture so the roots do not dry out. The gritty type mix we use, allows that. No perched water to rot the roots, plenty of air, and just the right moisture. When the plant is actively growing, they just need watered a little more frequent. Eventually all my plants will be moved into a gritty mix or the 5-1-1.

Well... they didn't look like fruit flies. More like the darn fungus gnats. which will be attracted to any moist decaying matter. Not just house plants. ;-)

The grate I use is just an old one off a small grill. Works so well! then I lug the bucket outside and throw it on a shrub. ;-)

JoJo


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RE: I give up

It's a shame the edit feature doesn't allow us to totally remove what was a double post. grrr... Like this was. lol

JoJo

This post was edited by jojosplants on Wed, Dec 19, 12 at 15:51


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RE: I give up

"Have you read any of the links in the container forum for the Gritty Mix and the 5-1-1 ?" For at least a total of a weeks' time, as well as the ones here in this forum... LOL!

I'm not sure which this is (gritty or 5-1-1) that was sent to me, but it's interesting. The Drac. marginata that has been living in it for a couple months seems to be doing great!

Thanks for the tips!


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RE: I give up

LOL!
I think I've read about the same, maybe closer to 2 weeks time! lol.. I need a refresher course. ;-)

Ah... so you do have a plant in one of the mixes?

Josh most likely has his Sans in the gritty mix.

the gritty is as it sounds..
Turface, granite, bark. (equal amounts or close to it)

5-1-1 is Bark, a little peat, a little pearlite. (sp?)

I love them both and use them both.

Succulents and cactus go in the gritty..
And a lot of my outside garden plants, peppers and such I use the 5-1-1, and a few house plants. I have a few succulents that I want to try in the 5-1-1 next spring.

I have a Elephant Ear in the 5-1-1 in the house now, and mint. :-)

JoJo


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RE: I give up

I just wanted to say that all my plants are either in the 5.1.1 or gritty mixes.

I have not had any problems with gnats in these pots. I do have a problem with them in new arrival plants that I have yet to repot and thank goodness they only stick to those plants.
If I may also add that all my succulents including my San's are in the gritty mix and I can drench mine as often as I want as long as the temps are warm quite often.
But if the temps are cool, I can only water once in a while to at least keep the roots from dehydrating and they love it.

Tiff, don't give up! There is so many ways to rid of these buggers and let me tell you, the caring help shared here as done wonders for me.

Josh and Jojo are using the same mixes I do and I can attest to their positive, gnat free experiences!

Hoping everyone here is doing well:-)

Mike:-))

This post was edited by meyermike_1micha on Wed, Dec 19, 12 at 19:23


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 19, 12 at 19:23

All-

I am using 511. Shall I assume I made it wrong?


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RE: I give up

Tiff you're not the only one with the problem in 5-1-1. One of my PL have these buggers flying around it too. There are like 8 or ten. I'm wondering if it is the 1 part potting soil that I added with it. I have 5 parts repti bark, one part perlite, and then 1 part potting soil.


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RE: I give up

Hi guys..

Tiffer.. As I remember it, when you made your first batch of 5-1-1, You did a total of 9 plants(?) and I believe you ran out of mix before they were all done, and had to make a different mix with different ratios for the last couple of plants.. Maybe the plant(s) in question have a higher ratio of potting soil? Maybe 3-2-2.. 2-2-3, etc.?

Charlie


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 19, 12 at 21:51

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. You have a good memory, scarey good for remembering something someone else did with their plants...
The peace lily was the last plant I potted at that time, you are correct. It does have more soil than bark... BUT I am watering sparingly. Nice call!! Thanks.

So being that spaths are resilient to potting in the off season, maybe i will just repot it. I HATE the pot it is in anyways. So did everyone else when I posted pictures of it. Haha. So maybe after the holidays I will. Too much going on here now and I just dont have the extra time or motivation right now. (Im in a yucky rut and I dont feel like doing much... I ahte this depressing weather)


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RE: I give up

Yeah.. I'm special like that! :-)

Actually, I remember how psyched you were and how important the plants were to you. Add the fact that I had suggested you repot to 5-1-1, and Bingo. When you ran out of bark, I felt some responsibility there and have been hoping for the best with the ones having the off numbers..

Now if only I could remember where I put my keys.....

Charlie


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 20, 12 at 6:35

Purple alwayys remembers stuff like that too, same with Toni. Wish you guys were my neighbors!!!

Your keys?? I dont get it, Im slow at times... Like 6 am... *yawn*
At least he is sleeping through the night more often now.


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RE: I give up

Meaning, I think, that he can remember the tangential stuff...but not the things
that are right under his nose, the pragmatic. Dang, Charlie, I'm impressed that you remembered
about the soil mix...I only have a vague recollection of the posts, and that due to you reminding us! :-D

JoJo, thanks as always for the kind words...and Happy Birthday, by the way! Cat's out of the bag ;-)

JoJo is correct. My Sans. is in a porous, free-draining, gritty mix. Meyer Mike (hey, Mike!) is actually
the very fellow who sent me the Sans. - I rooted it in the gritty mix, and I'm growing it in the same pot.
We've all adopted free-draining mixes in order to make our growing experiences even more care-free and fun.
A little work up front...but then months of relief during the Winter when you can water thoroughly and not
worry about slow-drying potting mix and root-rot.


Josh


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RE: I give up

WAKE UP!!! :-)

Meaning.. I can remember odd, weird, stuff.. things that happened 20, 30, and 40 years ago.. sometimes down to the minute.. but if I don't hang my keys on a certain hook, they could be anywhere! I look for my glasses when I'm WEARING them.. and have actually been talking to someone on the phone.. while frantically looking for the phone I'm talking on! Yeah.. I blame the 70's! (~)8-#)
Remember Dharma & Greg? I'm kinda like her father, Larry, only with hair!

Glad the baby is sleeping better!

Charlie


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RE: I give up

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does stupid s___ like that!


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RE: I give up

Tiff, I wish you and Purple were neighbors, too. It'd be great.

People in this area, if not the majority of IL, could care less about tropicals and succulents.

Stores like HD are packed w/customers during spring...shopping for outside, garden plants..most ignore indoor plants.

Also, if we wanted to order plants w/shipping charges more than the plant, we could all pitch in.
One nursery-man made this suggestion when I wanted a B. Luxurians..the plant was under 10.00, shipping 24.00 for 1 plant!
I emailed the nusery, asking if price was a mistake..the owner replied with, 'no mistake. I suggest you and a neighbor pitch in for shipping charges.'
Right.. I'm certain my neighbors would love contributing. Not! lol.

Tiff, gnats are a pain, but at least your plants do not have Mealybug. They're the worse, impossible ridding.

Are you certain the little flies aren't fruit flies? Toni


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RE: I give up

Tiff,

I am not sure of you saw what I wrote, but good luck and don't give up.

Mike


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RE: I give up

Tiff, I am not sure if you saw my last post, but don't give up:-)

Mike


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RE: I give up

Josh!
Thanks for remembering me. :-) You really need to tie that bag tighter though! ;-)

o.K. I'll confess! I'm guilty of looking for my glasses while they are on top of my head! And looking for my cell phone which doubles as a watch while talking on it. LOL!!!

JoJo


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RE: I give up

Man.. 'You' people are Weird. :-)

JoJo.. Happy Birthday!


Has anyone else had a problem posting? I 'thought' I posted a reply in either Tiff's PAT thread or Toni's New Addition thread when they were both cooking right along, but didn't see it after when I went looking for a reply to my reply!

Gremlins, I tell you..

Charlie


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RE: I give up

Hello Everyone!!!

JoJo, Belated, Happy Birthday!!
Thought I wished you a HB, but not certain.
Talk about forgetful!! lol

Charlie, who's weird? Gremlins? lol.

Perhaps you 'forgot' to click Submit?? That's happened to me before, then I wondered where my post went. lol.


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RE: I give up

Morning!

Tiff~ I hope you can get the mix straightened out soon. It's great the others helped narrow down the problem.

Charlie and Toni, Thank you for the Birthday wishes. :-) Toni, if you did post, I haven't seen it, doesn't mean you didn't. lol..

Gremlins~ yep. lol..

Charlie~ sometimes I remember the odd stuff too. But mostly I notice if something is out of place. My computer desk is a nightmare, organized mess as I say. lol. but if one paper is moved, I know it!

Josh~ you mentioned the soil as being a little work up front. I agree whole heart on that one. I for the most part found it very enjoyable though. Almost like baking I guess. Gather , measure, mix, plant and enjoy. ;-)

Soon I will start making mine to move a few of the last of the succulents to a better mix.

JoJo


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 11:03

Hi all!! Yes Mike I saw your post!! Thank you.
Oddly enough, since using the cinnamon I have seen a serious decrease in the gnats. And just for sh**ts and giggles, I sliced a potato and put it in the PL.

Toni, how would I know if they were fruit flies and not gnats?


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RE: I give up

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen..(and children of all ages)...

Toni.. Not sure if I hit submit now.. But even if you don't.. where oh where do they go? There must be Forum of lost posts that we don't know about! Man.. that must be fun to follow. But you know when we all get going and sometimes the posts are maybe a Foot Long?? I had written one of them to follow whatever thread it was and *Poof*.. the thing pulled a Houdini and is gone forever!

Jojo.. you're welcome! I too call myself organized! For instance, yesterday, Walmart's automated system called me to say I had 2 prescriptions ready.. and the total was $106.00! I know I had qualified for cheaper prices, so I went to the kitchen table where I had 'ORGANIZED' a 2 inch pile of stuff from SS and Medicare! I took it to the living room and proceeded to 'REORGANIZE' it into TWO one inch piles.. Stuff I wasn't looking for.. and stuff I hadn't gone through yet. I was so proud of myself.

Then the Root Beer incident happened.

My son was going to his girlfriend's house, so he brought over a couple of Subway sandwiches, and ... the Root Beer.
He had to leave, so after high five..hug hug.. off he went for the night, leaving me with my Large Italian sandwich from Subway... the Root beer... and my Two one inch piles of 'REORGANIZED' paperwork from SS and Medicare..

I opened the sandwich without incident. Plenty of Pepperoni and Salami, with banana peppers, red onion, pickles, oil and vinegar with black pepper. Unless my Doc reads Garden Web.. she will never know about this.

Halfway done with my sandwich, I reached for... the Root Beer.. and gave the cap a twist...

....and suddenly....

BAM! Root Beer Everywhere! It sprayed. It hit the table. It hit the rug. It hit ME! It hit a couple of medicine bottles I had on the table. It hit the Brand New Couch I bought last March. Good thing the window was closed. It may have hit passing cars.

Then, thinking quickly, I held it out at arm's length. Away from me. Away from the Brand New couch I bought last March.
I noticed how it had stopped spraying. It was now content to run down the sides of the bottle. Onto my hand. Running up my fore arm before dripping off the edge of my elbow onto my freshly laundered pajama pants.
I had showered and shampooed within the last hour. I made a mental note to do it again in the very near future. As in minutes.

Then I looked down. Towards the floor. Where I had placed the former Two inch pile of SS/Medicare paperwork, now 'REORGANIZED' into two One inch piles of very wet, very sticky, and now very "UNORGANIZED' Paperwork.

The RETURN text from my son simply said, "HAHA..sucks to be you! See you by game time tomorrow!"

I'm having coffee all day. There's Another bottle of Root Beer in the fridge. Now I know how the Bomb Squad feels. :-(

Tiff... "And just for S&G "I SLICED A POTATO AND PUT IT IN THE PL"????

And I thought I was the Burn-out here.. :-)

(I really hope this thing posts.. I'd hate to have to try to do it again.. or have it fall into the wrong hands!)


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RE: I give up

Dear Charlie & Others,

Haven't we all had the lengthy post or two go 'poooft' into the Ozone?

Well, here's my Cure for that, been doing this for over a decade now. As I write the post, I stop & Copy it from time to time; the last thing I do BEFORE hitting 'Preview' is to 'Copy Paste' the post one more time.

Then, if something goes wrong, once the screen stabilizes & one is back at the clear screen, invoke the command 'Paste' & voila, that's the post back from the Ozone! So then hit 'Preview' to lock it in as it were, (before it goes pooft again) & then one can edit it.

This will work most of the time, assuming it's the VERY LAST THING in the memory of your 'Cut & Paste' (will also keep your pix in place on your thread here while you're editting). It won't work if you lose Power or turn off the 'puter. Has saved me an awful lot of retyping over the years. I recommend it strongly. Did it while writing this one, now it's just SOP for me.

Tricks from moi, a former Legal Word Processor who used to crunch legal docs for 8 & 12 hrs. at a time (actually enjoyable in an oddly perverse way).


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 21:41

What does potatoes have to do with being a burn out?


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RE: I give up

What do Potatoes have to do with a Peace Lily? :-)


Charlie


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RE: I give up

  • Posted by tifflj 6 Pitts, PA (My Page) on
    Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 22:05

The gnats Charlie, the gnats. Have you not heard putting potatoe slices in a plant will attract all them to the tator? Then you just pitch the tator... Me though will put in garbage disposal with hot water.

;-) did you see my email btw?


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RE: I give up

Putting a Potato in a plant for gnats?

To me, that's just gnuts.

Charlie


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RE: I give up

wouldn't they all escape on the way to the disposal? ;-) maybe throw it in a plastic bag and out to the trash? :-)

Merry Christmas Everyone!

JoJo


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RE: I give up

Howdy & Merry Christmas/Hanukkah,

Mike, just wanted to add, my plants are potted in bagged soil, yet no Fungus Gnats..I believe it's a matter of watering, humidity and air conditions...

JoJo...speaking of birthdays...every year, after another b-day passes, more Senior Moments develop. LOL.

Tiff...any chance a piece of fruit/veggie is lying somewhere? Fruit Flies will congregate nearest edibles, but sometimes fly in other rooms.

When a plant is watered, and happens to have FG's, you'll see the little critters come up from and atop soil..they have silvery-hue colored bodies.

Charlie...what are we talking about? lol.

Gotta go grocery shopping if we're having Christmas dinner tomorrow. Stores will be jammed-packed. I too give up. lol. Toni


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RE: I give up

Charlie,
I'm laughing about the root beer explosion still and feeling for you at the same time. ;-)

Toni~ My mom is blond, so I blame all my 'moments' on her. lol...

JoJo


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