I'm guessing your first question is regarding a Hickey, so the answer is...maybe yes for the 5/8 rebar...no for pipe. I have used mine on some 5/8, but it was a real bear. The jump in mass from 1/2 to 5/8 seems to make a huge difference in the energy requirement. 1/2 inch, no sweat...5/8 inch, lots of sweat. And you do indeed need something to hold it very solidly while you attempt to bend it. Either a big vise or something that you can put a lot of force against. I designed the following for a friends studio many years ago and it still works quite well today. Two pieces of 4 inch wide x 12 inch long one inch thick plate steel welded into an "L" shape. The vertical leg had a series of stepped square notches flame-cut into the middle of it. The top step was cut to fit 3/4 inch rod, the next step was for 5/8, the next for 1/2 and the bottom was 1/4". The whole (heavy) thing was drilled and bolted to a stout bench so you could just drop any size piece of rod into it and bend it in any direction by hand or with a Hickey. He did a lot of curvy welded steel furniture and said it probably quadrupled his output. I would have one in my shop today, except I can't cut or weld anything that stout.

As for cutting and grinding...A "Chop Saw" is a must have. The bigger the better ( 12 - 14 inch ) and preferably with a stock clamping system and an angle cutting adjustment. You might check some of the "discount" tool houses for deals. Harbor Freight & Northern Tool (look online) both have some amazingly low prices. Usually cheap import tools, but a chop saw is a simple machine and I'd go for a "deal" price. And you will most definitely need a good angle grinder. 4 to 4 1/2 inch should be fine (and easier to get into tight spots). There I would recommend spending a little more for a good one. My little 4" Makita set me back about seventy-bucks...but that was way over 10 years ago. And it's still going strong.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Thank you for helping me out Tango!
Never thought about a chop saw, but it makes sense, I suppose it will cut black pipe too, so I won't need a pipe cutter?

The Makita grinder seems readily available for what you paid or maybe less (ebay).

For big curves, how about a couple of tire rims (free-whee!)
and/or huge machine bolts (got those) set in the floor.
You could thread a pipe over the shorter pieces of rebar for leverage?
Or cut them after they're bent?
Pipe is really a b*** to bend, isn't it? But for non-concrete stuff,
like arches and gates, I think I'd prefer it to rebar. If I can bend it.

The 5/8" thing is more about looks than structure, 1/2" or 3/8" rebar should
be fine for armature. Then again, if I can make mad rebar spirals, who knows...
maybe I won't need pipe.
I think I'd like to get relly good with a hickey

I like your jig, but I can't make that either. I wasn't planning on production,
this is just for my gardens.

So what do you use to weld rebar together?

Here is a link that might be useful: Very cool fence in lower Manhattan

here you go

Here is a link that might be useful: power bender

Hickey question. The other day my girlfriend came up behind me and attacked my neck....oh wait sorry wrong question.
Can they be used with electrical conduit and copper pipe. I want to use it to bend conduit for a trellis for my tomatoes and peppers. My brother makes copper trellis's so it would be good for him also. Or would it crimp the bended area. Probably mostly right angles.
Paws

David, that was the 4-figure thing I was talking about, not in my budget I'm afraid.

Paws, have you checked if your girlfriend shows up in a mirror?
I've seen conduit benders around for little money. they may do copper pipe as well.
I think the box stores have them.

The Hickey is good for rebar and solid round rod but will definitely crimp anything hollow. Pipe & tubing being hollow, require some means of preventing the walls from collapsing. While there are fairly expensive tools specifically designed for bending tubing, the only material I've seen worked was fairly thin walled steel tube (both round & square) for things like motorcycle and race car frames. For smaller and more maleable materials such as copper tube & conduit, there are the hand bending devices that are both available at the Depot & Lowes. Bending "black pipe" is another matter entirely and could be very tricky since it is much heavier walled and a very different type of metal. I'm afraid I don't have a clue there...anyone else?

And yes, a chop saw will make short work of black pipe as well as rebar or just about anything else made of steel. Aluminum and some of the softer metals can be a problem, but only because they tend to melt at the temperatures the saws blade creates and fuse onto it.

I like the old tire rim idea (I'm a cheap old Scotsman and hold dear anything that can be recycled or had for as close to free as possible). Jigs for bending are handy and very easy to make just as you (Linnea) described. Big A** bolts secured into a solid surface can be arranged just about any way you want them.

And don't forget that you can "beat" solid rod into submission. A cross-pean hammer worked on an anvil or a thick slab of iron plate will allow you to form just about any shape including spirals. But keep in mind that rebar can shatter at anytime when being bent or bashed. It is prone to crystalizing if it hasn't been heated & cooled properly, so never, ever work or cut it without good quality safty glsses and, or a face shield.

As for welding, I use an aged little 90 amp mig-welder. It runs on standard 110v current and the small head makes it very agile in tight places. While I would like to have something a little more versatile...this one gets the job done and (more importantly to any good Scotsman...) it's paid for.

Back to work now. I finally finished all the sculpting on the 8 foot table & bench commission and will start the color work as soon as it has cured for another day or so. I would love to post or link some pix, but I won't do it here since the new landlords are laying claim to anything we put here as their own to do with as they please forever. We really need a place of our own where we don't have to put up that kind of nonsense. Even Yahoo has the same policy. It's just plain wrong. Like so many of you, I come here to share freely with other folks who share an interest. Not to contribute to some corporate bottom line. Sorry for the rant, but it really p****s me off that what you have all put so much into for years has been summarily annexed by claim-jumpers. There. I'm done. Well, not completely...this bothers me so much that I may just start my own d*** garden art forum. Hmmmm....not bad. How 'bout it guys?..."thegardenartforum.com"...yeah, that's the ticket. You never know. There just may be a place in cyberspace for an honest-to-goodness member-owned forum after all. Watch the skies. Meanwhile...I hope this helps. Have fun and remember to always "play safe".

Hi Linnea
Yep that is a pricy tool but very cool. I was just trying to get Tango all excited about it.:)
I would love to see it in action.

Tango, I will probably use rebar and straight pieces of pipe until I find
other ways. I'm all for adapting to feasibility.
Now that I think about it, my place is crawling with all kinds of iron scrap.

Googling for cross-pean hammer I got to a blacksmithing forum,
lots of stuff out there. I'm all for a garden art forum, I always feel a bit
out of place talking about welding and other projects on a hypertufa forum,
but the "accoutrements" forum, which best answers the description,
moves very slowly and doesn't focus on MAKING the stuff. Also, I like the crowd here.

Linnea --- The cross-peen hammer looks like a small (2#) sledge-hammer, but one of the faces is "V"-shaped with its edge running crossways to the handle. You can usually find them at most of the Big Box stores but look for yourself, otherwise you'll probably just get a blank stare if you ask one of their 19-year old "tool experts".

David --- as for rebar benders & shears...I've already drooled myself dry on those big-ticket puppies. On to the CAD-CAM driven plasma & laser sheet metal cutter section...

I lust for those big ticket tools as well. We're men, it's in our nature.:)

Linnea have you consider flatbar at all? Makes nice curves and comes in all widths and thicknesses. But like all things the price of steel is going up up up.

I would love to adapt the freeform wire of this 10" high box
into a fence and gate using 1/4 inch or better round stock. I just love the look.
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MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....two of my favorites....copper and Cointreau (...right behind gold & Gran Marnier)! And what a great looking little "cage"...could Barbie disco-dance in it?

I love Cointreau in hot chocolate. Great stuff!

I love the cage, it came with the bottle and I think it is only copper plated.

I think the cage is a work of art but I've never seen another like it. You can barely see the the welds that hold the wire together. everywhere a wire touches it's welded. How would they do this? Run current through the entire thing?

I would love to be able to duplicate the technique in heavy wire and steel.

Great in coffee too. It could well have been "welded" just as you surmised. That's how most wire panels are made. Galvanized hog-wire panels are one of the products I use to reinforce some larger pieces (like the 8-foot table I just finished sculpting). They lay up the wire then dump a big charge through it and it fuses all the seperate pieces together anywhere they are touching. There's probably a little more to it than that, but that's the idea.

As for interesting welding...I worked in a machine shop that made oil tools & tool joints many years ago. They employed a couple of techniques I'd never seen before. "Spin-Welding" and "Resonance Welding". For the first they woud spin a length of drill pipe in one direction and a tool-joint in the other. Both at several thousand RPM. Then hydraulically slam the two together. The heat would fuse them into one piece. The resonance machine generated a huge magnetic field of some sort that would cause almost intant heating of two huge parts that had a micro-gap between them. Current appeared to arc between them causing the metal to flow back and forth between them and fuse. Never got very close to that one. I had heard horror stories about people with rings, watches and even steel plates in their skulls getting fried at 20 or 30 feet from the thing. I think I'll stick to my little mig.

Yikes Tango!
Bet OSHA banned that rig, though they seem to specialize in more trivial hazards.

So now I've got used to the sticks and knocking off the slag I should re-think huh?
I must say I like the simplicity of arc/stick welding and just realized I have
a phobia about gas valves of all kinds. I could get over it.

David, flatbar is a definite possibility, a little "dressier" than rebar
though I actually like the ridged texture, my gardens are a bit tongue-in-cheek
(sophisticated plants in tire pots, etc.) rebar fits right in if used in
unexpected places.
Wars make steel go up. We get steel boning for our corset bodices, it's
steady downhill quality-wise the last two years.

There is a stool I want to rip off from a hardscape book, with chicken legs,
perfect for rebar. Baba Yaga stool.

When you guys are done with the Barbie cage and the Cointreau (cool way to
fuse copper, though)
maybe you can tell me what you think of the item in the link?

Here is a link that might be useful: Bending thing

Hi Linnea
I have a bench top version of that tool..but it's still in the box.:) I'm going to install it on my outside bench. I'm expecting it to be very handy.
I do all my bending right now in a 6" Quick Release Record vice. But I don't do that much bending at all...yet

I suspect you are going to need a strong floor to mount that sucker if you plan to bend heavy stuff. And remember rebar shatters so you can really go ass over tea kettle when applying torque.:)

David --- I'm not much on "web-lingo" but, ...IROTFLMAO! I have the same bench top bender...and it TOO is still in the box! For about 3 months now already! Should be real handy if I ever get time to unpack & mount it. It was on sale at Harbor Freight and, well...I just can't pass up a "tool deal". You know how it is.

Hehe
Tango I bought mine because it was on sale as well, at about the same time from Boss Tools here in Canada.

"I suspect you are going to need a strong floor to mount that sucker if you plan to bend heavy stuff. And remember rebar shatters so you can really go ass over tea kettle when applying torque.:)"

In the words of the Beatles, when I was young and so much younger than todayhay...I worked as a silversmith just after I left college. One day I was drawing down wire (pulling wire through a drawplate, to make it a thinner gauge) when the wire snapped. I had my foot braced against the front of the bench, and went flying across the workshop. Slammed my bum into the floor with great force. Thought I'd damaged my coccyx for life :o( Luckily it recovered. But you really need to be careful when pulling/pushing etc.. That's when an awful lot of injuries occur.

Linnea - ever think of using copper piping or wire instead of rebar? More expensive, of course, but silver soldering is nowhere near as scary as welding. You don't need a helmet, the blowtorch is easy to get, you can buy small canisters of gas, the joints can be filed back neatly, and the copper goes a lovely colour outdoors. And if you don't want to silver-solder you can always use lead, like plumbers. Lots of handy connecting shapes already available, and things for inserting into pipes so that they bend smoothly without crinkling.

So, what's all the stuff on top for, lever, etc. or is the answer still
in the box(es)?:o>

Is 80 bucks with shipping worth it, you think?
I have a large concrete floor, several kick presses bolted down on it already.
I think i should fool around with a hickey for a while to see how it works.
Thanks for the warnings about the shattering, is that infrequent? Defective stock only?
I'll take it real slow!

I've considered copper, Dog, it turns black out there, which is fine. Tempting, but
I just really like iron/steel. Some of my Dahlias get to be 5', I want to make some
really sturdy, plunk-down, s-shaped rows of connected supports. The stick-in-the-ground
supports blow over in my soil. I don't think it would be strong enough for the
stool either, or big arches?
And, I have so much lovely iron junk!

The stuff on top of the bender is the sizing system & lever attachment. They come with a variety of different rollers & positioning mounts to make various sized bends. I got mine, a bench mount, for $49 bucks on sale so 80 for a floor model isn't bad at all and it sounds like you have the right situation to install it properly. Just anchor it deeply and solidly.

As for the shattering problem, it's just the nature of the metallurgy involved. Rebar is specifically designed to match certain strength properties of concrete (another thing to keep in mind when experimenting with reinforcement) and very sensitive to heating, cooling and tempering in general. Combine that with questionable quality controls, bending, twisting and welding and it is fairly easy for it to get outside the envelope and crystalize. When working it, simply assume that it could shatter at any moment. It won't and only rarely does...but at least that way you get don't surprised when it eventually does. And keep in mind just how much heat you are generating when you bend any piece of metal and go slowly. Remember, bending it back & forth is an easy way to get a piece of wire to snap off where you want it...and rebar is just a big, thick piece of wire.

Copper is fine on it's own and the lovely green patina is one of my favorite things to see in a garden...however, copper & concrete don't play well together. The oxidation is accelerated in concrete and can cause big problems and even spalling.

Ok, got the hickey, "old faithful" type local hardware store.
Now I need some 3/8 and 1/2" rebar to mess around with.

Decided to buy tools as the need arises.
I will need a welder. Read Paws' post, looked at various machines
and am still mostly clueless at this point. I hope we'll be using a mig welder
soon in my class, so I can get the feel of it. If I could even watch someone
doing what I want to do..I'm sick of 1/4" plate!
Hey, why don't we just barge in on you and make a video tape of
you in action Tango!

So, are you guys going to open your boxes? Pretend it's your birthday
and someone just gave it to you? Maybe it's as good as that rig you designed
but can't make Tango.

I know how you get used to a simple tool and use it for everything, including
jobs it's not designed for and get so good at it nothing else seems necessary.
Shears have been my primary tool for decades, I often don't even draw first.
Problem is all new shears suck, can't hold an edge. Now my favorite is a
little rotary cutter that cost an arm and a leg (figuratively) and worth all of it.
It cuts every sample that ends up providing a living for 15 people.
Maybe I could get to feel that way about a welder, but it's gotta be the right one!

Hi Linnea
I think all the new Lincoln small welders including a Mig come with a pretty nice video on how to use it.
Perhaps a retailer will let you view the tape before you buy.
Mine didn't even come with a manual. I had to email the company to figure where to install the wire. I felt pretty dumb.

Linnea --- if you can find a commercial concrete supply house, they will have a full range of rebar sizes...all at much better prices than the big box stores.
Remember that rebar sizing is based on the diameter in eigths-of-an-inch. Half-inch is "number four" (as in four-eighths)...three quarter is "Number six"...five eighths is "number five", etc., etc., etc. What can I say...they talk funny in these places.

The one oddball is what's known as "smooth rod"...or..."pencil rod". It is one quarter inch in size and does not have the "cleats" or ridges that regular rebar does on its surface.

WOW!

Here is a link that might be useful: Gates

Thanks for the link david.
Those gates are wonderful.
Debbie