OH, FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I thought you had hit the motherload of perlite information, had tested it under all known conditions, had made numberous sample, had photos and step-by-step instructions and was offering us definitive information!

Sheesh!

Sue

Sheesh!
I still have 500 liters of the cryogenic perlite to use up.:)
I stocked up on the stuff before I knew about this Litefill stuff. The guy at Grace hinted about it but wasn't sure of the sizes so I opted for the cryogenic.

I've just started using perlite, up until now I was using vermiculite.
If this cryogenic stuff doesn't do the job I'm blaming a certain Sunshine Coast poster.:)

On the same subject. I've been interested in locating larger sized perlite. 3/8" , 1/2" to maybe 1' in chunk size. Do you guys know if this size is available ?

Bama the big stuff like that is the most common in my area.
Cheap as well.
Look for a company that sells bricks, especially cinder blocks to the building industry.

For your info:
I've done about 25-30 pieces with this cryogenic size perlite.So for,so good.I like the texture that I get with it.I had been using the larger,non-horticultural size .Remember,though,I'm doing masks only at this time,nothing that requires structural integrity.My fountains won't contain perlite,just various grades of sand.
Will I keep using it?for this specified use,yes.As to hypertufa?I don't know.My primary mix is 1:1:2,cement,sand,perlite,with part of the sand being silica flour.I had used the larger perlite beads for fountain bases and planters.The ones I kept are still fine after 3 years.
So,crafter beware,I guess.Perlite is an expanded volcanic product,so,to my mind,and in relating to this product only,size doesn't seem to matter!

Do you have any pictures of those masks?
I'm sure many here would love to see them.

Cryogenic perlite makes great molds as well.
Super light weight, a bit fragile but much nicer to work with than POP.

I sure would like to get my hands on some of that fine perlite. Anyone find an online source you can order from? My building supply place only has the regular size. And making my own doesn't sound like something I would like to do.

dixiesmom
The cryogenic stuff is used for coating tanks.
It's cheap as well, cheaper than the big stuff sold for agricultural use.
There is an almost identical product to cryogenic that is used by batch plants and readimix plants for making light weight concrete for things like parking garages.
this is also the product sold for make light weight concrete art.
Unfortunately my supplier is in Canada. It's called Grace industries.
The key to your search is the term 'cryogenic perlite'.

I haven't tried cryogenic Perlite, but from the description of the properties of Premium Litefill, I'd really like to get my hands on some. It's especially interesting because it's claimed that it doesn't absorb water. I'd expect that to make quite a difference to the consistency of the mix when you're adding water. If I could get some black sand as well, then a mix of 1 part Portland, 1 1/2 black sand and 1 1/2 Premium Litefill might make a very interesting-lookin 'tufa.

Herb according to the guy I talked to at Grace the Litefill is probably the same stuff used to make light weight structural concrete. The Premium just means it has been screened to be exactly the size required by artists and other such fussy folk.
Now he told me the product code for the stuff but I lost it.
I have 5 bags of cryogenic to use up so I'm not trying very hard to track down the other at the moment and I think Rick is looking into it anyway. I'm sure he will post his findings. I just ran into information overload. I'm spending more time reading about concrete and tufa than doing it. BTW the cryogenic makes very nice light concrete molds.

They are all pretty cheap if you find a good supplier. The huge over 100 liter bag of cryogenic is only $16 from my supplier.

Herb if you want black try coal slag or copper slag used for sand blasting.
50 pound bags are about $6-7.
It's pitch black but beware it is very sharp and hard on gloves.

tufaenough - Thanks - that's interesting. I'm going to start looking for it.

For those interested-slags and other interesting particles can be found with TARGET products in Burnaby.That's the producer.I'm sure they have retailers in your area(in Canada).If you get the chance to go to their plant,they have displays of their various products.Check out their website as well.

Believe it or not Lordco Auto Parts can usually get you most of the Target sand blasting materials at a very reasonable price.
They are a huge buyer of the stuff for use in autobody shops.

The posts in this thread have been really helpful - I looked up 'sandblasting' in the yellow pages and found Smith Bros. in Victoria; they referred me to Steel's on Government Street - and bingo - I now have an 80lb bag of Copper Slag sandblasting stuff.

Hi Herb
Did you check the grit size?
It comes in very fine to very course grits.
I've been using the course and haven't tried the fine yet.

BTW Steeles is a great place for pigments of all colors, including the hard to find and pricy blue, stains, admix, wire mesh,and they sell blue styrofoam in all thicknesses cheaper than anyone else.
Way cheaper than HD.

Tufaenough -

They only had two grades of the copper slag grit so I picked the one that they said was the coarser - it looks about as fine as ordinary white sugar. I'd have preferred something coarser than that, but it's certainly very black.

I cast a lantern with it a few minutes ago - 25% portland, 25% copper slag and 50% coarse Vermiculite so it won't be demoulded until tomorrow or Sunday & may not be ready to demould even then, because the mix was a bit wetter than usual.

What I'm really looking foward to seeing is how much effect the black slag will have on the colour of the casting, but that'll have to wait about a week while the lantern dries out. If I like the result I'll post a picture.

Right now I'm wondering whether to try another with 25% Portland, 25 % Slag, 25% coarse Vermiculite and 25% peat moss......

LOL! That was quick Herb.
It made my lantern quite dark but I also used pigments.
I scrub my work down with strong pickling vinegar using a brass brush. It really helps remove that Portlands haze and expose the aggregates.

Copper slag does have a nice sparkle.I use it to modify pigments, to make colors like blue and green appear darker. I threw away the bag but I think my stuff is much courser than yours. I got the finer stuff from Steeles as well but ended up finding the course grade at a local supplier.
I do know that it can result in a very deep black if used with black pigment and polished.
Black tombstones are made with the stuff.

If you like Black you can get red (Garnet) green (Nickel) clear (Glass) and silver as well.
Black Walnut is also available but I have no idea what it costs.
Either through Target or try your local Auto Parts store.

TE -

LOL indeed - I've just finished casting lantern No.2!

This one's 25% Portland, 25% Slag, 25% Vermiculite and 25% Peat Moss. (At least it was meant to be 25% Vermiculite but it may have been one scoop and not two - I got interrupted!)

Thanks for the idea about pickling vinegar. I've sometimes used Muriatic acid but it's dangerous stuff, and if pickling vinegar (Acetic acid I think) will do it, I'd rather use that - cheaper too I should think.

David- at what point do you brush down your pots? I usually soak my pots for 3 days after several days in a plastic bag. Wondering if there is an advantage to scrubbing earlier or later in the curing process.
Anyone- I've noticed about town black sidewalks and streets that have an incredible sparkle to them. Do you think this is copper slag in the mix? Would it have to be ground or polished to get that dazzle?
GB

I use a variety of brushes, brass, bristle, steel on most of my stuff the second day while the tufa is still very soft to bring the aggregates to the surface but NO vinegar.

I use the vinegar after I remove the pots from their curing water bath. It removes the effervescence and the remaining Portland's sitting on top of the aggregate.

The copper slag if cleaned like this has terrific shine no grinding or polishing needed. I have tried to photograph the glitter of the copper slag but no dice. It just shows flat black in pictures.

Mercuric acid might do a better job but it's so nasty I'm avoiding using it.
Vinegar and elbow grease work for me.:)

LOL
That would be muriatic acid.
Why my spell checker decided to choose that spelling I have no idea.:)

One of the lanterns I mentioned has just been out to dry. I'm putting a picture in the Hypertufa gallery.

Well I stopped in at a local Lordco - they only carry 3 grades of silica sand, apparently it's black, they are unwilling to order in as frieght is a problem - sigh......

Reading this thread it I remembered being hired years ago to load trucks with fistsized chunks of copper slag, there was a mountain of it where I lived in Grand Forks, and another in Greenwood (BC), they were testing samples that lead to the building of a plant there to make insulation out of the stuff! Now I live several hours away and the mountain is gone and I can't get the stuff - grrrrr....might have to try Steeles again, I was on a colourant and admix mission last time I was there :)

Chris I hear that 'freight' issue all the time but generally from someone who doesn't give a ratz behind about customer service.
They should be able to attach your order on to their next order to Target.
But I will agree that getting all the concrete goodies is a challenge.
Try getting super plasticizer in powder form. Everyone uses it but they won't sell it.

It's actually illegal to sell many industrial use only products to the public.:)

But you know, the more I experiment with this stuff I'm finding that the basics are all you really need. Some Portlands, a good riddle to sort your own aggregates, a pile of clean gravel, some perlite/vermiculite for weight and good ole peat for that aged look.
I went down to the river and came back with about 300 pounds of beautiful aggregates from sand to pea gravel size.
Digging that was probably illegal as well.:)
Chasing all the exotic additives is more frustrating than it's worth.
Silica fume and liquid super plasticizer are the only two I'm going to lust after from now on.

I was thinking about the ratz aspect :) I used to work with the manager at that Lordco, unfortunately he wasn't there when I went in, he is very accomodating of odd requests, I did also think "Well if you're getting the other from Target, what's the problem???????" I'm going to give him a call...I know the first response - "What on earth are you up to now??!!" (he got me hard to find here stuff for my ultralight :))

I know I only *need* the basics, but the *want* list has me very intrigued - a lust for aggregate colour I suppose :) I don't use a riddle, but I do use a plastic colander,I use it for the sand, perlite and peat to get all a fine texture, altho I think the next pot will have the coarse perlite. So far I've raided the kitchen for the colander, measuring cups and spoons, likely cooking pans, from the garden I've raided the perlite, peat, and leaves :)

What's the advantage of powdered plasticizer? I've found the liquid I got to be quite interesting, a little bit of mental gymnastics to figure how much to use tho :)

Chris I like to premix all my dry ingredients in 5 gallon pails for consistant color and texture. This mean if I need a bit more mud I can grab it from the bucket without having to measure stuff.

Powdered SP is in all the fancy redimixes like topping mix and grouts. Very little is needed.
I use SP to help avoid shrinkage cracks when I need a sloppy mix.