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Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Posted by mammo8 Illinois (My Page) on Thu, Aug 6, 09 at 22:41
Been a 3 yr lurker....two days ago did a first....
it's been 48 hrs and I still have not unmolded,
just doesn't seem right, but tomorrow ready or not it is
coming out.
I used a 12 inch hanging basket pot, turned upside down and molded on the outside. It is a plain Jane, for a first that is OK. Now I have some after thoughts, at this
point can I go back and add a couple handles and 4 feet?
Should this have been done at the time. I thought somewhere I had read on this forum you could go back and add on. If so will the new tufa batch stick to the old? Do I need to use a bonding agent to make this stick?
You would have thought my life depended on this project, almost afraid of starting. Just did not want a failure.
Tomorrow will tell the story.
I have several ideas in store to use up this 90# bag of cement. Have the perfect spot to work inside our garage.
So enjoy this forum, have reads most all the posts over the
years and hope to add a few of my own now.
Thanks everyone. mammo8
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Welcome mammo8,
I think you are right about adding but I'm not the expert here. Think all you have to do is wet whatever you are adding to. I've been wrong plenty so wait for someone with experience. I've made some feet using leftovers but haven't tried to attach them to anything yet. I have a couple pots that are tipsy and need feet but I planted in them. Maybe when the flowers die I can add the feet. I'm still asking a lot of questions as you have probably read. But wanted to welcome you, everyone's so generous with their knowledge. Kathy |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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- Posted by patsi z7-S.Jersey (My Page) on
Fri, Aug 7, 09 at 17:29
| Mammo, Too funny !!!!..."You would have thought my life depended on this project". I'm the same way.
I'll check for your updates.
Patsi |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Good Grief Illinois your an hour or two behind me so you've got daylight, run out there and unmold. 24 hours are all you need. Never mind, just saw you did this 2 or 3 days ago. Did you unmold yet?
Yep, you can add feet and handles. You may have a color difference due to the mix. Add a little Elmer's Glue to the water you use for making the feet and handle; it can help with adhesion. Soak your piece in water before adding the feet and stuff. Billie |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Well my first project was a disaster. At 72 hours I
unmolded and it feel apart in 5 pieces. I did not even
cry. but I was so surprised, I had felt good about this project. I do know when I poked with my finger it didn't feel like I thought it should,it still seemed to soft. My recipe was 1 1/2 peat, 1 1/2 perlite, 1 Portland cement. Since molding I have done some more reading and I think maybe I should have used more cement. Later this pm, I got busy and mixed up another batch, using 1-1-1, molded another pot like the first adding 4 feet, 2 handles. The pot is a 12" hanging pot, I turned upside down and molded on the outside. I covered the pot with a plastic bag and sprayed with pam then molding. Perhaps I should have done something smaller for a first. It has been 6 hrs now since I completed 2nd project, was just out and checked it on it, it seems more solid on top half now than 1st pot did when I unmolded. I will not give up. I have taken pictures, have given up my Picture Trail account, will subcribe again so I can post pics. Thanks for all comments. mammo8 |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| Got pictures going again, hope they come thru OK
1st project  1st project disaster...when I would pick up the pieces they would break apart in more pieces. 
2nd project...and hoping for a success
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RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| Sorry to hear that Mammo. Too much water maybe? billie_ann is right, it should not take that long to set up. I have never just stuck tufa over something, I've always put it between two forms, so maybe there's a trick there you are missing. Did you use any other additives like concrete color? The only one I ever broke had too much of that. |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Checking your photo, it looks as though the area where the base and walls meet was too thin. You can use a nail, or pin to check that you have that area thick enough when you mold.
The base - which was the top when you molded - may have slid down the sides as you patted and molded. Making a strong join between walls and the base takes some practice. Remeber, everything should be at least 1 1/2" thick.
Hope the second one works. Let us know. Don't give up! |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| Unmolded my second project and just as the first it fell apart as I started to take mold out. Fell apart just like the first. I measured pieces they all were aleast 1 1/2 inches. Just don't understand. I had DH read GardenWeb Hypertufa FAQ and he understands the way I do. He rechecked my recipes and they seem okay. Tomorrow I am doing a small project, something simple, like a brick or something. Once you unmold, the hypertufa is still fragile right? Mine are still soft and will crumble. 1 pics of second project. Oh well. mammo8 
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RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| Mammo8, I know just how you feel...I had exactly the same results as you when I tried making 2 large pots. I made mine with a mold within a mold and they fell apart when I unmolded 2 days later. However they broke so that I could patch them up with a concrete bonding agent so they don't look too bad; just kind of even more rustic. I used perlite thinking that it would make for a lighter piece since they were going to be large pots, so I'm wondering if maybe vermiculite may have worked better. I have had good success with smaller items but I still want to try the larger pots since I have enough small pots, troughs, and bowls around my yard. Also I always line my molds with plastic bags and that usually makes for easy removal for me. Anyway good luck on your next project! |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| For some reason it looks like an awful lot of perlite, you're sure this is an equal parts recipe? Is the peat moss sifted or straight out of the bag? Is the portland cement from a fresh bag? I've never used that recipe. Most of the time I use equal parts portland cement, peat moss and sand. Did you add anything besides water to the dry mix? Did you mix all dry ingredients first before adding the water? |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| I had a similar failure when I used water out of the garden hose and it was hot from the sun. But didn't realize it was hot until I was mixing. But think effected the curing process. Kathy |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Your frustration and disappointment come through loud and clear. I know that whenever one of mine break, I have to walk away and wait to get over the disappointment - but I always come back again!
Clearly there is something wrong. Most ideas have already been suggested. Two other suggestions: 1) is your mixture wet enough, 2)are you building your pot with real conviction? Try adding more water and spend more time tossing your mix. I spend a lot of time stirring, mixing and pushing the stuff around - unlike batter, more mixing is better. When it reaches the right consistency, I start bashing - and I do mean bashing - it onto my mold. This may be why the usual beginner project is a box within a box because you can really beat down on the floor and walls. You can make a brick, but first puzzle over how to hold the shape while you bash! We've told you, now its your turn to tell us what you do next! |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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- Posted by beaw Tn (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 11, 09 at 19:27
mammo8
I use the exact same recipe that you use
1 1/2 peat, 1 1/2 perlite, 1 Portland cement I also do 1,1,1 and had the exact results that you are dealing with. I started stirring the dry parts really well and then added more water then it calls for and stir, stir, stir . I know it tells you that you don't want to get more then a couple drops of water out of a hand full or it will be to heavy and wont set well. I cant tell you exact how to mix it you will find the right amount for you but I'm pretty sure from your pictures your mix is to dry and maybe not mixed as well as it should be. Don't give up my first project was a sphere and it took me 3 days to get one that finally turn out right . One little hint if you get to much water then take a few hand fulls and set them on newspaper before you use them it will suck up the excess water or if once you got your pot done it appears really heavy or is sliding from to much water take paper towels and just blot it well until you get the excess water out of it . Good luck and lets us know how it goes
Bea
You will have to figure out what works best for you . Just from personal experience I have to add more water then all of the recipes call for and the only time I have issues with them breaking is when I simply don't get a area thick enough......good luck and lets us know how its going .
Bea |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| I remember when I first did hypertufa. I molded a trough along a cardboard box and the whole thing was so heavy, it eventually collapsed in against the box. I was so impatient, that I'd break projects apart when unmolding and it was a general mess. So, I didn't do it for about a year and then tried it again. This time, I altered my recipe to equal parts of portland cement, peat moss, and perlite. I then used molds that were harder like plastic, or other things you might find in a dollar store. But, what really worked was to cover molds in plastic bags. If it was a big project, I covered with three or four plastic bags. Hey, it's more tugging power and sometimes you need it. As experience and time went on, I became more patient knowing that smaller projects cured faster and bigger projects took a little more time. And, it's important to keep your process as simple as you can. I use my wirebrush and putty knife religiously and have found that the finishing touches are what take your project from amateurish to "elegantly primitive". |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| Finally after a few more disasters and not giving up I think I have a success. It is a little crude but will work and also gives me hope. Don't know why I thought I had to make scallopes around top, just did. 
I molded this pot inside a 16" pot, used equal parts of peat, verticulite, and portland cement (a new bag). The other bag was new also. I do know one thing for sure I learned 'A Newbie' on their first few projects should think small, do not try to do BIG projects. I think that has been stated here on this form tho, I wasn't paying attention. The following project was hypertufa just piled on and around 3 pots. 3 different recipes used, but not necessariy a good idea. I will plant hen and chicks in this. Just experimenting.
 I have almost a whole new bag of portland cement I want to use up before cold weather, do not want to hold over. My questions are:
Will molding on the outside work just as well as inside? Why the wire brush technique used after unmolding? What do others use for measuring?, I have been using a gallon metal can. This 16" pot took a double recipe using the gallon can, which I mixed in one batch, lots to work with. Will keep in touch with my future projects....little grandkids are thrilled with these hypertufa projects.... mammo8
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RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Molding on the inside or outside doesn't matter, you just use a drier mix on the outside of a mold.
Wire brush helps to give "rustic" look, remove or accent the lines caused by using a plastic bag liner, if you mold in plastic and don't want smooth, shiny sides, expose stone aggregate.
Doesn't matter what you use for measuring. For small leaf castings I use measuring cups and large projects it may be a 5 gallon pail.
Your scalloped edge pot looks great. The hens and chicks pot looks like theres a lot of perlite. But it is an interesting pot!
When I say that pots are "fresh", "green", "fragile" when you unmold in 24 hours I don't mean that they crumble when you take them from the mold. When I teach a class the students always have this fear of unmolding. I always make a sample of the planter that we'll make in class the day before the class. I literally throw my mold unside down and straight down on the grass to show them that this is easy and won't break that easily if you mixed the ingredients correctly and tamped your mix in the mold and used a release, spray or plastic bag. The mold/pot throwing thing has to be done flat on the edge of the pot and on grass. One student called to complain and I found out she threw it on her concrete driveway????!!!!
Try using equal parts portland cement, sand and peat moss.
You mention above that you used equal parts cement, vermiculite and portland cement but in the picture it looks like perlite. It still looks like there too much perlite. Billie |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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| I just did my first project too!!! I made 2 sandcast birdbaths, using a very large canna lily leaf out of my own garden. I've been growing canna lilys for about 15 years, not realizing that I should have been using the leaves all along to create these wonderful birdbaths!!! Im really nervous about it, And I'm still not clear on how long I must wait to unmold it. And I'm also not clear on how much I have to sprits it with a water bottle. I have it wrapped in plastic, on a table in the garage right now.I only sprayed it once with water since I molded it at about 2pm this afternoon. Should I spray it more?? |
RE: Just did my first project, now tell me...
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Hello Bandito,
I have been making sandcast concrete leaf castings for about a year. I'm really enjoying it. I turn my leaves after 24 hrs and peel off the leaf. For really large leaves like elephant ears I sometimes wait for 2 days, but in my hot dry climate 24 hrs is usually enough. I usually don't even spray mine at all...just keep them covered with plastic until I turn them over. I haven't tried cannas yet but I have used hosta, calla lilies, elephant ears, and rhubarb with really good results. Have fun and post a pic! Here's my unpainted elephant ear.
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