Amaretto, Your hypertufa probably looks like mortar since that sounds like what you used, Portland cement and sand. Since you didn't use the "sandstone" mix recipe, what recipe did you use? If the mix calls for specific ingredients and you don't use them it's not going to look like sandstone. You can get a tan colored sandstone by using the correct recipe and a "tan or buff" colored dye from Home Depot or Lowes home improvement stores. They also carry a grey and terracotta dye also. Many stores move the bales of peat moss to the back of the store for the Winter, ask them to check in the back. I'm surprised that your local nurseries wouldn't have it. Good luck and track down the correct ingredients. Billie

Hi, You may need to rub the surface to expose more of the moss/stone underneath. You can do that with a wire brush very easily. Be careful (or not depending on your preference) to get to the surface you want. It's easier when the 'tufa is new and still in the early curing stage. Be sure to keep your piece damp for a while yet as it gets stronger with it as it cures.

I have also just begun to experiment with different mixtures. To attain the granite look I've had good luck using portland cement, perlite, vermiculite, sand and for good measure silver metallic glitter (not the punched pattern type). I've also used coarse sandblasting grit called black beauty, available at Handyman Rental centers. Be sure not to overdilute the portland cement. I keep it at least 1/4 of the mixture. As someone else has already mentioned, you must have the proper ingredients to achieve the look you're after.

Thaks for the advice

I actually used the sandstone mix, but without the moss, cause I couldn't find any peat moss, and the sphagnum made the mix crumble. I'll keep trying to find some, and will buy the dye. Basically, I like the finish (texture), just not the grey color. I read somewhere that the moss only makes it lighter, maybe more porous, giving it more of a rock texture

Amaretto, I must be reading your post wrong. You said the recipe was "1.5:1:1.5 of sand, portland cement and pete moss respectively". That shows 3 ingredients, so if you didn't use peat moss, you only used 2, portland and sand. I'm assuming that you didn't use the crumbly sphagnum mix. If you don't like the color, paint or stain it once it cures. Post some pics if you can, we always like to see what's made. Billie

Billie,

Yeap, I can see how it would be confusing. Let's see if I can clarify:

1.5 : 1 : 1.5

of

sand : portland cement : peat moss (this is the mix I intended to use)

minus the peat moss is

1.5 : 1 (this is the mix I actually used)

of

sand : portland cement

I also think I used too much water because I was trying to do an outter flower pot ummm "project?", and the mix kept falling until I had a layer about 1 inch or so thick. I like the heavy structure, but had I known, I would have used a bigger pot.

After finishing the pot, I began to use some sponge-rock, hoping it would add a bit of "granit-like" sparkle (nursery gae me sponge-rock cause they didn't have perlite or vermiculite). I thought "what the heck, for $5, I'll give it a shot". I created a couple of stones, which I'll also post. I want to think of this as my mixing experimental phase. Once I find the mix I like, I'll move on to the formal project phase.

Anyone want to recommend some weather resistent stains?

I live in zone 10, so I don't think below zero temps would be an issue

Thanks, all!!!

Is there portlan cement in any other color than grey? This would probably make it a lot easier to acquire coloring

Amaretto, You made and used a mortar mix that's why it doesn't look like sandstone.
Do a search on this forum, I think someone used shredded coconut in place of peat moss. Maybe that is available in your zone.
Yes, there is white portland cement and white sand, use vermiculite for a light colored mix. You can buy concrete stain or paint but you can also use craft arylic paint. The paint and stain is for the outside of your project and can't be added to the mix. When you use concrete dyes make sure you read the container. If you add too much your piece will crumble. Hope this helps. Billie

Thanks, Billie_ann

I wasn't feeling too confident about the acid staining. To dye may be the simple solution I am looking for. I also heard that adding grinded coffee to the mix helps give it color.

Shredded coconut... hmmm... I'm getting a feel of what I need. Maybe I can even chop up the sphagnum moss (it was too stringy).

I'm going to have to do more homework regarding my local suppliers. I could only get grey portland cement from HD, couldn't find peat moss, vermiculite or perlite anywhere. Let's see how my dye search goes as well... I couldn't find any concrete dyes or stains in HD either... BLEH!

Coffee ground stains don't last. You'll see a lot of experiments mentioned in posts.
If you want something that will last, use a good recipe. There use to be some in the FAQ section of this forum don't know if their still there. Use the correct ingredients and find a store that sells masonary supplies. The concrete dyes are at Home Depot in the same aisle that has the bags of Portland cement. The stains are in the aisle that sells paint. The stains usually come in gallon containers. The dyes can give you some strange colors. The terracotta can give you a nasty pink so you may want to experiment. The buff and grey are pretty easy to use. Have fun experimenting. Billie

Well, folks, thanks for your help. So far, I've been able to stock up on the following:

- Terracotta concrete stain
- Terracotta concrete dye
- Peat moss (I actually found at Lowes, with the fertilizers)

I stained the Hypertufa experiment (the concrete), with the stain and will be posting a picture tonight.

Now all I need to get my hands on is some white portland cement. I'd also like some more dyes to expermient with some coloring.

You'll have to go to a masonary supply house or concrete supplier for white portland cement. It's not usually sold at home improvement stores. Sounds like your on your way to some great fun. Billie

Where did you post the picture?
That is where you'll find the peat moss, "with the fertilizers". The vermiculite and perlite will be there too. You do know these items are found in the gardening section of the big home improvement stores. Billie

Hey, guys

I just covered up my giant tufa. I'll have the camera handy for the unveiling.

I just did a pretty sizy 3x2x1 tufa pot. Since I'm new to this, I started smoothing out the finish. Because I liked the texture, I got a little hand mister, and would mist out the surface to make it easier to smoothen.

I used a mix that was approximately equal portions of portland cement (gray), sand and peat moss.

I'm pretty sure the misting weakened my mix. Now, at about 15 hours after the sculpting, my mix doens't look like it will suport the flip-over. Little rocks that came off dueing the sculpting just crumbled in my hands.

I'm thinking this may be a result of:

- Not enough cement
- Too much water
- Mix isn't sufficiently dry yet

I'll keep you guys posted.

I will add a picture of it before flipping it over, and hopefully I wont be adding one of it after it crumbled :-)

BTW, I got a nice teracotta dye. With the gray portland cement, and the smooth finish, it looks like a giant snickers bar LOL.

It will be crumbly cause it's still green and not necessarily because of too much water or not enough cement. If you're done your carving, let it set up for another day before flipping. Keep it covered and mist it.
What did you use for a mold? Didn't quite understand about the dye. Did you do it in layers so part is dyed and the other part is gray cement?
Looking forward to the pictures and your success! Billie

OK, let's try this first picture posting here

This is my finished hypertufa after about 36 hours. Weekend is almost over and I'm anxious to start curing it

{{gwi:74972}}

This was taken with my phone camera, and I don't know if you can appreciate the orange teracotta smears over the chocolate background

Here it is from another angle:

{{gwi:74973}}

Here it is flipped over. I used two smaller pots and covered them with a garbage bag and chicken wire to create the center of a single pot

{{gwi:74974}}

Here I've removed the inner pots and the garbage bag to expose the center. It's only about 3/4 inches wide, but gosh is it heavy. I wasn't sure it would survive the flip over because of it's consistency and weight.

My wife came out laughing asking me if I was going for the Pompey look. I wasn't laughing :-(

Low and behold, the picture I was hoping not to post. After fliping it over, I had to get it out of the way to mow my lawn. It slid over my foot and one of the sides broke off... Oh, well, there goes 4 hours of work and 36 of waiting. GRRRRR!!!

My tufa of shame:

{{gwi:74975}}

Just got home and did a structural test on my broken tufa. My goal was to try to figure out just how much my impatience played in the destruction of my tufa. Yeap, I should have waited. This thing is solid like a rock!

I like the sound it makes when you knock on it too. I've always wondered what those concrete-like creations were made of (surely not concrete). Now I know :-)

Quote "I've always wondered what those concrete-like creations were made of (surely not concrete)."
If you're talking about concrete planters, birdbaths and such, yep their made out of concrete==portland cement,sand and gravel.
It's a shame it broke it's a nice looking planter. I like the antique rustic color. Matches your pavers. Depending how badly it's broken you can sometimes repair them. Even if your colors don't match you can always turn the broken side to the wall or plant border. You need to make your drainage holes bigger.
You can unmold in 24 hours but you can't manhandle them. Their still green. You don't get a 90% cure for 7 days. The first day that you unmold you can gently wire brush or carve or just clean up. BUT you're suppose to mist it and wrap it back up in plastic bags to continue the cure. You did wrap it in plastic when you first made it, right?
This is addicting so I'm sure we'll see some great pieces from you. You're lucky in your zone you can probably work outside all year. I have to work in my basement in the Winter. Billie

Thanks, Billie

I didn't cover it for the first night. I didn't want the piece to get the same texture as the bag. The next morning I covered it up first thing.

As for the bird baths and the like, when knocking on them, I think the peat moss gives them a more muffled sound. This is why I thought it wasn't made of concrete (straight mortar).

I'm feeling pretty confident about what my next piece will be. As for the manhandling, my next piece will require me to flip it over at some point, before it's too late to carve.

So far, both of my molds have been outter molds. I've noticed that the rim, which is up against the plastic, which in turn is up against the floor, always has a plastic glue-like finish. I want to make sure I can manipulate this before the tufa is dry, and that will require flipping over.

Also, I am going for a rock-like look, which means thicker walls, which means heavier piece, which means, handling it will require precise timing.

You'd think I'm crazy going for something more difficult when this simple thing failed, but I think I learned some valuable lessons here.

I'm going to start creating the mold. One of the lessons I learned, is you can make a mold out of anything. This new approach is going to be really interesting and I am surely going to post it here, hopefully with successful results this time :-)

As for working outside, now is a good time here in FL, because it's not raining, although I did have a stroke of bad luck the next day, because it did rain. Luckily, my tufa had been covered by then ;-)

You've got to cover it as soon as you're done filling your form/mold. Don't use a heavy plastic to cover it, use dry cleaner bags and strips of wood on the edges of plastic to hold it in place. If your thinking heavier planter and don't want to be flipping it, try working on the inside of a mold. A cardboard box lined with dry cleaner bags (re-enforce the outside with pieces of wood and duct tape) or plastic storage bin works for larger troughs. The plastic lined cardboard box will give you lines but you can wire brush or carve them out. If lining a mold with plastic bags, don't overwork the mix or the bag becomes embedded in the mix. I like working with plasticware. You just give the plastic a light spray with baking spray (that's your mold release) and wipe out the excess. Make a work table on top of saw horses in the shade, it's easier to work on the mold and easier to carve. Easier on your back too! Have fun and keep us posted. Billie

HAS ANYONE TRIED USING THE STYROFOAM BEADS LIKE IN BEAN BAG CHAIRS INSTEAD OF PERLITE OR VERMICULITE? I FOUND A SOURCE AND ITS MUCH CHEAPER!

Not really - they seem a little large - but go for it, It may turn out great.
My local nursery garden center sell 4 cuft bag of perlite for $18. Farm Stores, ANother place you may try is a building supply place that sells insulations - Perlite is used as insulation. Google it
Mike

It is the third posting with the same question at the and, NO, YOU CAN'T SUBSTITUTE THE PERLITE OR VERMICULITE WITH STYROFOAM JUST BECAUSE ALL ARE LIGHT MATERIALS.

The perlite and vermiculite are made of minerals, they act like aggregate to set the concrete.

You might can use styrofoam instead the peat moss.

SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU KOBOLD. SINCE I'M NEW AT THIS I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE TO POST MY QUESTION. SO I TRIED SEVERAL DIFFERENT POSTINGS. I HAVE BEEN READING INFORMATION AT LOTS OF AREAS. THERE IS SO MANY THINGS PEOPLE HAVE TRIED I THOUGHT SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE TRIED THE STRYOFOAM. I'LL WATCH WHERE I POST MY QUESTIONS FROM NOW ON AND AVOID AREAS WHERE YOU HAVE POSTED.

Overflow, I hope this doesn't offend you but.....Don't get mad at Kobold, you are the one that came to the web site and posted the same question over and over again on different threads in capital letters which is the equivalent of shouting at people. If you have a question either post on the specific thread or start your own thread. People here have been sharing their experiences and helping when they can. If you post a question, wait for a reply. Some times it takes a day or two for a response. Do take into consideration that this is all done on the Internet and in writing and it's sometimes hard to express yourself. So post a question, wait for answers (which you may or may not get) and have fun with this hobby.
Welcome to the forum and good luck. Billie

I GUESS THIS IS NOT THE FRIENDLY PLACE I THOUGHT IT WAS! I USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS EASIER FOR ME TO READ. MY EYESITE IS NOT AS GOOD AS IT USE TO BE. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO START A NEW THREAD. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WAS WRONG TO POST A QUESTION IN DIFFERENT AREAS AND WAS JUST HOPING I COULD GET AN ANSWER. I'LL FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO FIND ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS. THIS IS MY LAST POST.

Overflow, This is a friendly place.
Friendly information: For wherever you go on the Internet and post questions don't shout at people by using capital letters. Go to "VIEW" at the top of your screen, click on "ZOOM" and adjust your screen from 100% to 125% or higher. You can seem to read our responses so you should have been able to see at the top of the Hypertufa home page this list. "Other Forums : Instructions : Search : FAQ : Post a Message"
"Other forums" takes you to a list of all the different forums on GardenWeb. "Instructions" takes you to the instructions to use this forum. "Search" takes you to an area where you can search this or all the forums. "FAQ" takes you to all the "frequently asked questions". "Post a message" lets you post your own thread/message.

This will be on all forums wherever you go.
I tried to tell you not to take offense by replies because you can't read peoples faces just these short messages. Go forth and find a friendly place. Billie