Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
amaretto_gw

Why square?

amaretto
17 years ago

OK, first of all, I want to thank Billie_Ann for cheering me on. Had it not been for the support, I would have given up and never taken on this project.

After my last project failure, being that it was only my second project, and my second failure, I was about to give up. Today, however, I woke up feeling quite confident, heck, I was even talking trash. I was even going to take on quite a big project. Pretty agressive for someone who hasn't had any success at doing this, but here is the plan:

{{gwi:75647}}

This is an area in my front entranceway. Pretty sizeable area with only mulch and a huge tendency to gather weed. I think it's time to add something in the area outlined in yellow, and what better idea than a huge bolder-like planter. It's a good project to take on, because the less it looks like a rock, the more it looks like a planter. You can't lose!

So, time to creat the mold. Lessons learned from my first project: You don't necessarily need a square mold, and it only has to be strong enough to support the weight of the tufa mix.

Because I will be creating the tufa outside the mold, I imagined the area flipped upside-down and created the shape accordingly:

{{gwi:75649}}

A few planters to secure depth, covered by some chicken wire should do the trick. To insure my cement doesn't just fall through the chicken wire, like it did in my first project, I'll cover it with some garbage bags.

{{gwi:75652}}

And that's my mold. Pretty simple.

OK, if all goes well, that'll be my mold. My only concern is that the tufa mix will be too heavy.

{{gwi:75654}}

That's the form. Opened my drain holes. My mold held quite niceley. It doesn't look so much like a giant boulder, but it'll make a nice planter. I'm hoping people will think I just sliced a boulder in half and made a planter. Yes, they will have to be naive ;-). I used about equal parts of White Portland Cement, Peat Moss and Sand. Gave the sand and the Peat moss a slight advantage, going for the 3:2:3 proportions, but I wasn't exactly accurate with my measurements. I also added a hint of yellow and teracotta dye.

I did a lot of chizzling after 48 hours, and went real hard with two BBQ wire brushes. They are now completely destroyed, and since I used my gloves for the cement handling, they are stiff, so I couldn't use the when chizzling and my hands are now full of blisters. Well worth it if you ask me.

Here is the final product, truly rewarding!

From up front:

{{gwi:75656}}

From on top:

{{gwi:75658}}

You can't really appreciate it, but the color has a hint of tan in it.

As far as size, I'm about 6 feet tall, and this is about as large as I am from the waste up. Two strong guys couldn't lift it, so we had to use a trolly to move it from the garage to the designated area, about 5 feet away.

Comments (24)

  • donn_
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's Excellent! In the upside down pic, it looks like a seal sleeping on a tarp, but flipped over it looks great! I'd suggest burying it a few inches in the mulch/ground.

    Well done!

  • garden_chicken
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great job! Very creative. I like it alot, your technique opens up a world of possibilities!

    Thanks for posting... and you're absolutely right... why square??!!

  • persiancat_gardener
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My word! You have inspired me.....I'm almost afraid to try my first hypertufa project, but now I'm encouraged to go forward.....Thanks

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Persiancat

    Go for it! I had two failed projects before I succeeded in this one. Even though they didn't turn out to be useful, they did teach me the lessons I needed to pull this one off. I learned plenty of lessons on this one too.

    It's a rewarding experience and a great hobby.

  • klinger
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Third one luckey I guess, this project turned out looking just great. It really fills in the area very nicely. Good thing you perservered, good luck in your future projects.
    Cindy

  • billie_ann
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love that planter! You deserve a pat on the back, great job. What are the dimensions? It should keep changing color as it ages. AGH!!! Don't bury it or gorgeous.
    I was thinking dinosaur fossil when it was upside down. That shape would also lend itself for a small pond. Throw in a small pump from the craft store and you've got a fountain.
    I was laughing when you said that it took two strong men to move it. I finally learned to make something large in the place it will be located. If it's a sunny spot, work on it in the cooler months. Sometimes a beach umbrella can supply you with enough shade.
    I don't know if Justin is still on this forum but he's done something similar. He's made some gorgeous round and oval pots with thick walls. There was also a man on this forum in Arizona that made large oval shallow containers for cactus.
    So what's next? Billie

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Billie_Ann

    Funny you should mention it. When I flipped it over, I thought "Hmmm... this would make a nice fountain". Heck, a little bigger and it would be a tub. I'm under the impression that you have to add acrylic or something to make it waterproof or the constant water contact will ruin the tufa, that's why I held back.

    BUT, once I get familiar with the mix, I that'll probably be one of my next steps. Right now, this huge boulder like planter is probably the only truly magestic thing in my landscape. Everything now seems so humble. I am thinking my very next project will be create some border rocks to keep it company and bring it in tune with the rest of the landscaping. That section is pretty big, so it'll be a pretty sizeable project. It might take me 2-3 weekends.

    After that, I'm thinking of creating some lanterns to hilite it at night (similar to the ones posted on this forum -japanese like-), so I'm going to have to research how to isolate the electrical portions from the rain and moisture.

    Then I'm thinking about doing the fountain and a few moai statues.

    It's kind of funny, cause I don't have time to do these things during the week, so the way the process went with this piece was: Mold preparation during the week. 5 minutes here, 5 there. Not a whole lot
    1 day mixing and plastering
    1 day of wire brushing and chizzling
    5 days of rest with a chizzle chizzle here, a chizzle chizzle there
    1 day of curing with vinegar, transportation and planting
    1 day of cleaning up

    So, if I'm going to translate that to my border rocks, I'll probably forego the cleaning up for a few weeks, which my wife wont be too happy about, in order to get them out faster.

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, and by the way, the dimensions are about:

    4.5x3x1.5 (feet approx), the thickness varies between 4 inches in its widest point to 1 inch (one place where I was inadvertantly stingy).

  • billie_ann
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't have to use acrylic fortifier in the mix to make a water vessel. You can pat and smooth the mix on the inside of the vessel/pond to bring the "cream to the top". This will put a thin coating of cement on the inside which would seal the piece or you can paint on a waterproof sealer after it's cured.
    Look for "coastal concepts" on this forum, I believe he has a tutorial for some really nice artifical rocks. Or just make rocks to mimic the real stone in your area.
    I've only used candles in my outdoor lantern but I think someone here used low voltage outdoor lighting in their's.
    One day of vinegar cure.....vinegars not necessary and one day isn't going to do much. I usually leach out the lime in a water bath (plastic muck bucket, kiddie pool, mortar pan) for a couple of days. We discussed this a long time ago and some of us old timers (on this forum) thought that you might not have to leach out the lime for the plants because the soil helped to insulate the roots. I've never had a plant die.
    It really is a great looking planter. Billie

  • rockyn
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fabulous job and just what a girl needs to see to perk her up for spring ideas!

    One aging trick is to use a pressure washer on it. It helps expose more of the older-looking peat. I used it on some papercrete items and it looked way cool. Maybe try it on a tester piece, first.

    Can't wait to see the next project results.

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now working on a waterfall

    Billie_Ann got me all fired up and I couldn't get it out of my system. This weekend I made a couple of nice 4 foot boulders, and a 3 foot for the waterfall... ummm... "tub"?

    Anyway, the technique I'm using is very simila. Just got a few big cardboard boxes, taped them together, covered them with plastic garbage bags, then with chickenwire.

    I discovered some nice techniques I might create on a separate posting.

    1) I've discovered that it's a good idea to fill in any spaces between chickenwire and the underlying mold with cement and a lot of vermiculite, maybe even at 1:5 proportions and let dry before applying the actual tufa
    2) Discovered a "paint-on" tuffa aplication, where you put the tufa on your palm and spear it on, rather than just pat it on. This allows for much thinner applications. Of course you must have that peanut-butter like texture.

    My one regret this weekend was working at night while applying concrete dye. Now one of the sides of my rocks looks like a Disney-World feature with bright yellow and bright red (terracotta). I'm going to have to dress that side of the boulder with another layer to cover it off. I'll post pics once I'm done.

  • nmgirl
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OMG!
    Amaretto, that planter is fantastic!!!!! Just the inspiration I needed today. Thanks for posting the photo!
    I haven't visited this forum lately but I'm glad I dropped by today.

  • daisy_ny6
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's a beautiful planter!

    Vinegar doesn't "cure" cement; it could keep the cement from curing properly. The cement cures through a chemical reaction which needs the alkalai (and hydration). The vinegar neutralizes the alkalai which could weaken it.

    It might be worthwhile to do a little test, maybe with a couple of rocks - give some a vinegar "cure" and the others a water cure and see which hold up better over time.

  • tamahlee
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! That is gorgeous! I am so inspired now.... Its awesome....

  • rockhewer
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is great thread about large planters.

    There needs to be some clarification about vinegar though. Daisy is right- "vinegar does not cure cement" but it also will not harm cement or keep it from curing properly (unless used as an ingredient in the mix). The ingredients are alkaline, they do not need alkali to cure properly.

    What vinegar will do is reduce the PH of the finished piece. Some people say PH reduction is needed for proper plant care. Others say it's not a problem.

    To reduce the PH quickly you'll need to keep the piece immersed for about a month in a weak acidic solution (water/acid), vinegar being the acid. Or you can use Muriatic acid used for swimming pool maintainance. You need to keep adding acid every other day or so to keep it so it is reducing the PH. ALWAYS remember to add acid to water NOT water to acid. Please read up on this method.

    This comes from experience with building inground hot tubs and swimming pools. Think of a pool as an extra large planter. We'd build the shell of the pool out of cement then cover the inside with a special pool plaster. Both these ingredients are highly alkaline. Then we'd fill the pool with water and immediately add acid to reduce the PH of the water for bather comfort. They would have to monitor th PH and add only enough acid to get the PH to the proper range. This would have to be done religiously for the first month as the cement and plaster cure completely. After that the concrete PH will stabilize, then only added if needed.

    I know this was a long winded explanation but there always seems to be some confusion about this issue or nonissue as some people see it. So the short story is - If you are worried about PH and your plants you have two choices.
    1)Keep your piece immersed in a weak acidic solution for a month.
    2)Just wait 30 days for a complete cure and PH stabilization to plant anything and keep the piece rinsed daily. The PH will be a bit higher using this method for a longer time though.

    So either way if PH is a worry for you 30 days is the key.

  • citrusnut
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, that's beautiful and clever! Thanks for posting and explaining. I made some planters a couple of years ago and am planning to make some more this summer and was wondering how I would go about making larger ones and now thanks to you, I know.

    Thanks for sharing, you are a genius.

  • justadncr
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amaretto-- Looks great. I am so impressed! I do have to ask as a newcomer to this and only one failure to my credit.
    Why did you choose to use sand instead of perlite? Is one made with sand stronger or just a different look??

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good question

    I was going for a sandstone look. Perlite would have given a lighter weighing plant. Hindsight, I could have given it a 2 inch thick shape with a Perlite mix, then just dress with a more sandy mix when the first layer was dry. I am doing a lot of that these days, although perlite is kind of hard to come by, so I buy it when I see it, even if I don't need it.

    Check out some of the mixes for different consistencies, textures and look

  • TxMarti
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That looks fantastic! I've been putting off my first attempt but I think I'll go buy the stuff today.

    The upside down doesn't look like a sleeping seal to me, but I won't say what it does look like. ;)

    I think it would look great half buried too, or maybe with some smaller outcropping type rocks around it.

    Great job!

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeap, a female chest is what you were thinking, RIGHT???

    That was actually what I was going for... kind of like a rock-like, weathered female chest. Then my wife, said DAVID, WHAT ARE YOU DOING????

    I told her it was a female chest and she said... "That's not what it looks like from here". So, rather than risk offending some of my neighbors, I flipped it over and made it a planter. And that was my last attempt at sculpting :-)

  • marcia7439
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I see by the pictures, you covered your wire frame with plastic. You said it was heavy, is it stong? I thought that the wire frame was supposed to be incorporated in the structure? Did you use fibers or add more mesh to the structure? I want to make a boulder, basically what you have before you drilled holes for drainage, and not turned over. Any suggestions?
    Marcia

  • Ruth2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's awesome, I love the pictures and explanations. Female chest was what I was thinking too, but I think I see what your wife was talking about!!!!! Oh well, kind of like the inkblot test, eh???

    I'm assuming you put chicken wire over the plastic too? I only see it over the planters under the plastic, but in some other exlanation, it sounds like you did cover it with chicken wire again. Otherwise, the tufa wouldn't adhere to the plastic, would it?

    I've got my new tufa making area set up again (we've been remodeling and moving stuff all over the place, I finally was able to 'claim' my project area!) so this is an inspiring project, thanks for all your info and the guts to keep on trying. You're awesome dude.

    Ruth

  • amaretto
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey, All

    Sorry for the delayed follow-up. Didn't realize there were more responses to this post.

    Yes, I covered the chickenwire with plastic. The chickenwire was just to create the inner-mold. The thinking was more like... "Hmmmm... I need to create a mold that looks like this, what can I use?"

    So, got 4 planters, covered with chickenwire, covered that with plastic, and there was my mold. Goes to show you can make a mold out of anything.

    Here's an idea for all of you:
    - Use LEGO for molds (there's an easy and reusable way to create molds for those lanterns) I haven't experimented with it yet, just one of those thoughts I have going on in my head, but I know it will work. I've had crazier things than that work.

    The planter is still strong, but because I used a mostly cement and sand mix, very little peat. And it is up to 3 inches thick in certain areas. I'd say it turned out to be about 250 lbs. (maybe 300).

  • mollymitten
    5 years ago

    Oh no, I can't see the pictures and I'm so excited about this! How do I find the pictures?


Sponsored
Frasure Home Improvements
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars2 Reviews
Franklin County's Highly Skilled General Contractor