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Coming Unglued?

Posted by dcarch Z6 (My Page) on
Sat, Oct 24, 09 at 6:17

A question was asked about gluing.

While I don't make plate flowers, I am not sure why you guys have problems gluing. If you use the right glues, good glues, and follow instructions carefully, it should not be any problem.

Just to show you: a small nail head with a drop of epoxy glued to a plate can hold a very heavy load.

I didn't have enough heavy stuff to break it apart.

dcarch

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Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Coming Unglued?

Impressive experiment.
It may be that epoxy glue is the way to go with ceramics and metal. That isn't totally clear from your experiment. I think performance in a garden through wind and sun and weather over time with different materials is a whole other matter. Many people have tried different glues that were "supposed" to work and they failed in the outdoor garden junk environment!
Send me one of those pretty forks of yours and I'll epoxy one of my plate flowers to it and set it out for the winter!
kathy


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RE: Coming Unglued?

I've used the 2 part epoxy, the liquid kind, on my flower backs. They eventually fell apart. A friend told me about the marine epoxy that she was using. It's clay-like consistency and you knead it until it all turns white. It's supposed to hold 300+ pounds. All of her's fell apart and so did mine.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

I agree Concrete. And since we are in such different climates, we may as well get one of the forks sent out to me to try also. See what North Texas does to it! :0) ~Ann


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RE: Coming Unglued?

If you want, I can test one here... the farmers almanac is predicting record snow falls for Wisconsin this year. I can bury it in a 6' snow drift and see how it holds up. (and isn't that a depressing thought)

I'm not that big of a fan of plate flowers, but for the sake of the experiment I could throw one together.
I don't think the problem is the glue, I agree with one poster about the rust being the issue. When the metal starts to rust it weakens the bond due to the chemical change metal goes through.
The other issue is the weight of the flowers. I'd be willing to bet a teacup feeder of the same size will hold up longer with the same glue just because its not fighting gravity.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Another factor in totems and plate flowers is you want the glue/adhesive to be clear which isn't always the case with epoxy. Cool experiment though!


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RE: Coming Unglued?

all this talk about metal and glass has gotten me thinking/ remembering. I'm going to try something new today and report back! Its supposed to be a lovely day here in NH! I'm so glad its Sunday and my dh gets to enjoy it also.
kathy


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Yes, gravity is a big factor. I had 2 birdbaths fall apart. I had pulled on the pieces to make sure the joints were stable. One buyer was carrying it over his shoulder, the other one over his arm. I was told by a man in this area who does this type of craft that it was caused from gravity pulling on the heavy top which was glued to a smaller piece.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Good experiment darch, but I have to agree with the other ladies....gravity, weight and weather. Not to mention, we like our glue to be clear so it doesn't take away from our art. When you first showed your forks on the back of the plates, I didn't think they were glued, that's why I asked the question. People have lots of great ideas, but if it doesn't hold up outside for "our" kind of art, well, it doesn't really help us. But we appreciate your artistic ability.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

The idea of the experiment is to show you all that weight and gravity is not an issue. I added even more weight later and still could not break the bond, and it was just a tiny bit of glue holding up the heavy loads, a lot more weight than the plates you can ever put on.

I used black epoxy because thats what I happen to have. Pure epoxy is clear. Weather is not an issue either. I have used epoxy outdoors a lot for many years. For your information, fiber glass boats, and many outdoor items are basically made with epoxy.

Silicone glue is also very strong and very long lasting outdoors.

The point is to be very careful in following instructions and use fresh glues. Fresh meaning fresh from the date the glue is made, not when it is first open.

Also, roughing the surfaces is very helpful, whatever you are gluing. Dont touch the surfaces with your fingers afterwards.

Have fun.

dcarch


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RE: Coming Unglued?

"The point is to be very careful in following instructions"

That sentence just might be the clue to any failures in using epoxy.

And it also brings to mind a question.

Just how 'forgiving' is Epoxy?

I have wondered if getting just a bit too much of one component or the other might cause an inferior bond.

Also, how would over or under mixing affect it.

Seems like there could possibly be a lot of variables that could possibly have an effect.

dcarch, please don't stop posting your ideas and creations just because a few here don't think they apply.

Rusty


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Rusty,
Thanks.
Epoxy is heat and UV activated. If it is used in too cold an environment, it may not cure properly.

Over mixing may create too many bubbles and weakens the mixture.

Under mixing may not allow it to cure properly.

dcarch


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Another question is, is there a difference in brands?
Are there some brands that 'work' better or are more apt to fail than others?

I think all of these things are definite considerations, and should be considered before claiming it just doesn't hold up in this usage.

Rusty


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RE: Coming Unglued?

"----Another question is, is there a difference in brands?
Are there some brands that 'work' better or are more apt to fail than others? ---"

I have not had bad ones before, so I don't know if there are bad brands.
However, I don't use those "5-minute" quick set ones. I don't think they are as strong.

I took the time to show everyone here that the problem is not epoxy. If the above experiment is not convincing enough that epoxy works, I don't know what can.

dcarch


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Your comment about the quick set epoxies pretty much answers another question.
Thanks.
And thank you, too, for taking the time and putting forth the effort to try to enlighten people here about epoxie.

I hope others here appreciate you as much as I do.

Rusty


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Thank you for directing me to this thread dcarch. You have confirmed my thought that I should be using an epoxy. Have a great day!


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RE: Coming Unglued?

I'm curious to know if anyone has tested the epoxy theory. In my climate, my half marbles eventually popped or slipped off my bowling balls. It makes me sick to see my wisteria bowling ball all naked.

Carol


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Early in the days of my plate flower creation I used 2 part epoxy at the urging of my husband. They fell apart. After about 4 years I still have the best luck with GE silicone.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

That's what I used. (GE Silicone) I guess our weather is too extreme for long-term success.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

I'm sorry to hear that. Did you clean the bowling balls good before gluing them? Was the tube of silicone outdated? Some of the crafters here have used it for their bowling balls, if I remember right, with good luck. I don't know what the weather is like where they live.

I grew up in Oklahoma so I know how extreme the weather can be. I was back there just last month visiting family. They were having earthquakes, tornado warnings, horrendous rain, lightning and thunder storms, hail in some areas and that was over about 2 days time. I was yelling, "Get me outta here!!"


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Yes, one day we had 5 different things going on across the state: tornado, earthquake, snow, rain, and warm weather.

I did clean the bowling ball and it was a freshly opened tube of silicone, but not sure if the tube itself was "fresh." I will check that next time. (But, oh, it took me forever to cut those half marbles!)


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RE: Coming Unglued?

I've never done a bowling ball, but some folks here say there are 2 different kinds and one of them expands and contacts with the heat and cold. But I actually think that was a reason to use geii, because it could expand a bit with the change in the ball. Lexel might be better with expanding and contracting. I don't love Lexel for plate floweers because it stays too "loose", but I may use it along my onepiece kitchen counter backsplash because the silicone cracked there.
Good luck
Kathy


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Has anyone tried JB Weld, SikSil, Loctite or Permatex products? Loctite makes an adhesive that speciically says glass to metal.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

I tried epoxy and the flower fell of the backing in a very short time. Tried Lexel and it took forever to cure so gave up on that. The GE silicone for W & D works for me so I stick with it. I haven't counted, but I've probably made well over 100 garden items using it.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

one detail Garden Whimsies by Mary told me is to make sure you have a solid line of GE, if there is any gap, water will get in and eventually wear it off.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

On my totems I use GE silcon, and agree with mjowest that you have to make a complete circle. But on my flowers, I drill them. Because they are vertical, the gluing will eventually give to gravity. I use a tile/glass bit and keep water in the plate, dish, bowl, etc. while drilling. I use a drawer pull and screw to keep them all together on a metal pole (hammered flat and drilled). Hope this helps.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

My husband made an interesting statement last night. He said boaters sometimes use E6000 for small boat repairs because it will hold up in salt water. I looked up E6000 on the web and it looks like he's right. I know it's a really strong adhesive, but it can be harmed by UV. The site said that it could be painted to eliminate that. There is an outdoor E6800 but I think it's quite expensive. I think it dries clearer than GE silicone, but for the time being I'm sticking with it because I sell a lot of my garden art and I know it works. I've had flowers out year around for years.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

dcarch : I took the time to show everyone here that the problem is not epoxy. If the above experiment is not convincing enough that epoxy works, I don't know what can.

Perhaps if you had hung it outdoors for a year or two. It's not as if other peoples' projects didn't hold together at first.


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RE: Coming Unglued?

Annyor, I agree with you. I always drill my glass whenever possible. However, you mentioned in your post that with your glass flowers you use a drawer pull and and screw to keep everything together. I haven't seen that method before and I can't visualize it. Can you explain further and/or post a pic? Thanx.


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