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Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Posted by concretenprimroses 4B NH (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 23, 09 at 12:35

Hello, I'm not comfortable giving away my plate flowers until I find a hanger and an adhesive for the hangers that I can count on. Some of you may remember that the plumbers goop gave way on the metal to glass after a year here in NH, and some of you have had similar experience with it in your gardens. Some have advocated 2 part epoxy based on short term indoor experiments. I've also wondered about mac glue which the developer of uses for stained glass stepping stones in her own garden. So I decided to do an experiment as follows:

4 Plate Flowers total using the following adhesives
A. GE Silicone II for Windows and Doors, Clear: used for plates to eachother as has been very reliable historically
B. Mac Glue: used for the glass embellishments (half marbles etc). This is an expensive but very clear glue developed by a glass artist.
C: Automotive Goop for 2 of the flattened spoon hangers to glass. I decided to try Automotive Goop because it says both glass and metal which Plumbers goop does not, and it is rated to -40 degrees F.
D: Two Part Epoxy for 2 of the plate flowers' hangers, one with a flattened spoon and one with an already flat cake server which I pounded on to give it some tooth. HD didn't have a 2part epoxy rated below -10F which is not enough for around here, but I found one at the local building supply store that is rated to -40F.

Here is a pic of the adhesives:

Adhesives for Experiment

I made them about 3 weeks ago and left them inside to cure for a week and set them outside two weeks ago. We have already had several days of -10F.

2 of the plates were sitting on the back porch because the spoons are too big for the pipes that I have, one of each automotive goop and 2 part epoxy.

Results so far, after 2 weeks in NH winter weather.

A: GE Silicone II good on glass to glass as usual for me
B: Mac glue embellishments, 3 elongated half marbles have fallen off.
C: Both automotive goop hangers, the one up on the conduit in the garden and the one on the porch are still firmly attached.
D: Two part epoxy
The spoon on the one on the porch fell off when I picked up both the porch flowers and carried them to the garden to see if they would fit in my solar light stakes (no). The hanger for the one in the garden with the cake server appears to be ok.

When I looked closely at the spoon which still had the epoxy on it, I realized that it was actually flaking off and I pulled it off easily in one piece.

Here is a pic of it, I'm going to post other pics in the next post.

Experiment Plate D2

kathy


Follow-Up Postings:

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Followup

Here are other pics:

Some of the mac glued embellishments have already fallen off this one! This has a cake server backing attached with 2 part epoxy.

Experiment Plate D1

And here is the back. YOu can see the cake server has a really large surface area.

Experiment Plate D1

Here is the other that is in the garden with a spoon hanger attached with Automotive goop:

Experiment Plate C1

And its spoon back attached with Automotive Goop.

Experiment Plate C1

And finally here is the one with Automotive Goop still on the porch. It has lost one of its embellishments.

Experiment Plate C2

I'll epoxy the other one again and try it again.

kathy


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks for sharing all of this info with us Kathy! I haven't made any new plate flowers in a while, but it's good to see what the spoon backs will do...I want to use those next time too!


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Yes, just make sure the spoon handle will fit into the pipe or conduit or what ever you are using for the stem! I've got to get a wider piece of conduit.
Also it seems like it must be a fluke for the 2 part epoxy to have fallen off so quickly. (Tho it seemed very firmly attached until I put it outside). I'll carefull clean the plate and spoon and sand the spoon a little bit before trying it again.
As much as i like the spoons, the cake server which didn't have to be flattened was even better! The other thing is get cheap stainless spoons. I had a couple that I could hardly dent with a sledge hammer never mind flatten.

kathy


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I used flattened spoons for the backs of mine too and I just used the same silicon that I used for the flowers. I couldn't use GE silicon as we don't seem to be able to get it here but it's very similar. I used Selleys Glass Silicon Sealant for Windows and Aquariums and it's suitable for glass, aluminium, stainless steal etc.
I made my 3 flowers a couple of weeks ago and they've been sitting outside on my table in the heat (it's summer here) and so far they're fine. I'm not sure how they'l go in the freezing cold tho, we don't get anything below 0 degrees celsius here in winter but we get it as hot as 45c in summer (YUK!)
Thanks for sharing your info!
(((hugs)))
Tracey


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks for the experiments and test results! I know what you mean about testing things in the garden in the frozen tundra. I imagine it is a pain to take things in and out of the garden when the seasons change, especially if you have a large collection. Plus the plate flowers look so pretty in the snow! Keep up your experiments Kathy!


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Thanks for taking the time to test these products. I live in Florida so don't have the cold & have had good results with the GE Silicon glue. The mosaic forum use it all the time.


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The only problem I have had with the ge silicone II is when I tried to use it to attach metal pipe fittings to the back of glass plates that the plate flowers would hang off of, in other words glass to metal plus weight. Hence this experiment looking for another solution. I think it will take almost a year because its possible that something that holds up in the winter won't stand the summer heat, which I think was the problem with plumbers goop. We get well into the 90sF here in summer tho usually not for very many days. And yes, I absolutely don't want to lug stuff into storage. Gettin too old and lazy.
kathy


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Kathy! This is such a GREAT helpful experiment!!!! Thank you for the extra work and the pictures!!! You're THE BEST! I once posted a glue question on this site and someone recommended the site below. THERE IS A WEBSITE JUST ON GLUE! LOL The internet is AMAZING! Kathy, keep us posted. :o) Bear Hugs! Kirk

Here is a link that might be useful: Glue This to That


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Thank you so much for the link, Kirkus! I'm sure that will come in handy in the future!


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Great experiment! I realize it is a little early in the process, but the automotive goop is looking pretty promising!
Also - more lovely plate flowers. I really like the last one, and the one with the green inner plate and orange marbles - nice stuff!
Sheryll


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What a great experiment. I have always used GE II and have never had a problem and some of my flowers have been outside for two years. Course I'm in Florida so maybe the weather has a lot to do with it. Thanks for sharing.

Donna in Florida


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Interesting. I have good luck with GE silicone for glass to glass, but haven't tried it on glass to metal. I tried 2 part epoxy about a year ago and it all fell apart. I've also tried a marine epoxy that has to be kneaded. It's supposed to hold up to something like 350 lbs. It doesn't. I used it on flowers to vinyl fittings for backing and they all fell off. I've wanted to try spoons or other metal items, but didn't know what adhesive to use. Maybe I'll try automotive goop and see what happens.


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Good experiment. For glass on glass I still think Lexel is the best, but it needs a two week cure time indoors and it doesn't work consistently with glass on metal or any other surface type, just glass on glass. I've also found that making sure the surface is cleaned with rubbing alcohol first goes a long way to keep a good bond. A lot of times I notice a film on glass globs and I have to really force myself to think and give them a swipe with rubbing alcohol before gluing them to things.


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Thats an excellent point about the rubbing alcohol Adina.
Laura, I'm not sure about automotive goop and summer heat, but certainly they claim it withstands high temperatures! I may make another plate with ge ii holding the spoon on just as a test. And I'll wipe globs off with alcohol. I re-epoxied the green plate and spoon, and I cleaned the plate with orange cleaner and wiped it with alcohol just to make sure it wasn't greasy.
Kathy


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Very interesting experiment. I wanted to mention that some glues actually state that a few drops holds better than a whole glob of the glue on an item. Many of the super glues are that way. I'll be checking back for more of your reports on the results of the tests. Luvs


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Great experiment!
I'm doing one of my own, but not as extensive as yours.
I live in MN - we get very cold winters (-15 F to -30 F below) and hot summers (100 F). I left 2 totems and 2 flowers outside. One flower with a bell hanger and one with a flattened spoon.
The totems are frozen to the ground and covered in 3 feet of snow, so I'll have to wait a few months to see how they are doing.
They are glued together with just silicon glue.
The flowers are also still holding together.
Or maybe they are just frozen together! ;)


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This is great info Primroses!!!! I too am frustrated with some of the glues, and have to remember to clean ALL the stuff before glueing it. Jane


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GE Silicone II Glass to Glass has withstanded 2 years for my SIL for a hanging totem left out all 4 seasons. Withstanded -10 degrees last winter and 90 degree summers.

The metal to glass using Ge Silcone II was a disaster in the summer a year ago in the rain.
I used Plumbers Goop for Metal to Glass with much success in the summer, but I need to do a test for this year before the winter is over.
It also held well for a jewelry project for my daughter using glass to copper.
Vapors are strong for the Plumbers Goop, I use a mask.


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Catalina, I'm glad you are doing an experiment too.
I also have a totem outside, but since its all glass to glass using ge ii, I'm assuming it will be ok. Hope I'm right. Its my Teeger memorial (my kitty who died this fall) and the other night the light in it was flashing. I'm sure its just wearing out, or reacting to the cold, but my first thought was communication from my dead kitty, isn't that silly.
kathy


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Kathy, I asked about what to use to keep plate flowers together and I was directed to this post. There's nothing more discouraging than finding your that your glass flowers have fallen apart under a snowbank. Thank you for your experiment. Look like I need to find automotive goop. Vicki


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I used those old wire plate holders that you use to hang your plates on a wall and attached to a fence post...I've got to learn how to post pictures....I promise I'll get back soon...I would love to hear comments and suggestions ...This is my first time trying flowers and totems (And I learned it all here !!!) Thanks so much...


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  • Posted by pesky1 7, Pacific NW (My Page) on
    Wed, Jan 20, 10 at 1:00

A key to GOOP products is to apply a small amount to each surface to be glued. Let it stand for a few minutes, till it gets a tacky film on it. Then join the 2 pieces, and for very best results, clamp it. I always used masking tape to hold the pieces together for at least 24 hrs and never had any trouble with GOOP coming apart.

I used to make totems and other glass/metal (copper) garden art for years and sold more than I can remember and none ever came back for repairs, and I used Plumbers Goop exclusively. Oddly enough, I never had good luck with GEII.

Never waste your time on those 2 part epoxies..they are just not accurately measured enough, and you have to really mix them a lot to get the chemicals to activate. Plus it does have a tendency to get brittle. Stick with the liquid/gel products such as the GEII and GOOP. (Also, the GOOP products are all pretty much the same formulation BTW)


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I am not sure why you guys have problems with epoxy. I have outdoor signs which were using epoxy glued for over 30 years with no problem.

As you remember I have done this experiment:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/junk/msg1006175018694.html

I also have done this:
Since I dont do plates, I just glue a piece of glass using a tiny drop of epoxy, left it outside in freezing weather since last December.

As you can see it is holding up a huge bucket of water without breaking the bond. I dont have a bigger bucket; I think it can probably hold up twice or more that amount.

dcarch


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

and notice that it looks like he roughed up the glass with sandpaper. probably the fork also.


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Thank you for continuing to comment on this thread.
Dcarch, now put the whole experiment in the garden for the winter! Ha Ha. I think the problem must be the glass plates. Most of them are not perfectly flat on the bottom and many have a design and or ridges. Maybe I should try epoxying a flat piece of glass to the spoon and them attaching the glass to the back of the plate with GE II. I'll try to do that this weekend. I have some little round pieces of glass that I was wondering what to do with. The green plate has fallen off again. (epoxied) I just noticed it outside in the snowbank. The two automotive goop plates and one other epoxied plate are still in place. ALL the embellishments, glued with MAC glue, are off. They look kind of pitiful lying in the cups of the flowers and scattered in the snow! (My GE II Teeger memorial totem with embellishments is still perfect dispite dh having dragged some brush over it)
I DID put the automotive goop on both parts and then after a bit, pressed together, as I did previously with the plumbers goop (per the instructions on the card). I also weighted the spoon down (didn't bend it all the way until ready to place in garden). Taping it is a good idea tho. If I redo the green plate with a flat piece of glass I'll also do another automotive goop attached plate and make sure to really press them together then hold with tape for a while. It would probably generally be a good idea to attach the spoon to the bottom plate before assembling the rest of the flower because you could clamp it. Not sure I'll ever be that organized but maybe! Temps won't hit 20 below again (I hope) but it will be freezing and wet.
Although it looks good for automotive goop at the moment, I think the summer heat may take its toll which is what happened to my glass/metal bonds with the Plumbers goop last summer. Still AG is rated to 140 F which I think is higher than Pg.

Disclaimer: we get 20 below zero F here in winter, so people in milder climates may have success with products that don't work for me. And it almost never goes over 100 F in summer though it is in the 90s a fair bit.

MAC Glue: Although I have to say not to use this on our glass projects for out doors if you have very cold winters, I LOVE this glue! I have repaired things with it indoors that I didn't think could be repaired. And the bond is very very strong and the glue is as clear as glass! It is very expensive but a little goes a long way. I plan on using it for some indoor glass projects. I am taking a mosaic class and Weldbond is included in the class fee. (Water based do not use WB out doors!) Weldbond is a good glue and dries clear, but its messy, for me anyway. I am able to be less messy with MAC glue and therefore less wasteful.
Mac glue was developed by a mosaic artist and she says she uses it outdoors on stepping stones and they last in freezing temps. Perhaps being up in the air and being glass to glass is what made it not work on my plate flower embellishments.
Kathy


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I believe roughing both surfaces & cleaning w/Windex, followed by alcohol is the key to getting a secure bond. No fingerprints on the glass either--they leave oily prints; so handle by edges. I've used Liquid Nails Clear Seal sealant w/good results, but no extremely cold temps; just blazing hot. I 'll be trying the MAC, too.


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Has anyone tried Gorilla Glue?

Ogre Mom


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>>Has anyone tried Gorilla Glue?

I've used Gorilla Glue multiple times, but it doesn't dry clear, so would show through the clear glass. I got a huge broken pot from Fred Meyers about 3 years ago and glued it together with Gorilla Glue, planted in it, and it's held together beautifully. I find, with Gorilla Glue, you have to wet both pieces with water before attaching them together.


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That's really interesting about wetting for Gorilla glue. My problem with it is that besides not being clear, it expands as it drys. So not good for everything.
I'm hoping to glue my glass blobs back on my flowers to day. (with ge silicone ii) They look pitiful!
Kathy


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Discovered the plate flower epoxied to the cake server laying on its face right next to a rock this weekend. Didn't hit the rock thank goodness. Cake server still hanging on the fence. I didn't do the flat glass experiment with the epoxy yet. Just forgot in the midst of so much to do!
I suppose I should, in case automotive goop fails this summer.
Kathy


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How's the automotive goop holding up? I glued the metal spoon with GE sil 2 on the back of plate flower...now wondering if it will hold?
Lisa


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Just wondering. Will the GE II adhere plastic pipe fittings to the plates? Or can't it even be used on plastic. I found a facuet repair flange thing at a home improvement store that has a threaded center and a tapered elbow thing to go in it. The elbow's tapered end would fit nicely in 1/2" pipe.


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Interesting results here . . . I've made a few plate flowers using the spoon method for the back. I use the GE Silicone II for that as well. No problems here in Central Florida and it has been freezing a couple times.


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I spent all weekend building glass totems - thanks for all the great ideas!!! Went yesterday to Menards and found PVC 'caps' that i'll be attaching inside of vases (upside down) to put the PVC pipe in. I also found PVC 4 way's to glue to the back of the plate flowers. I figured they had more area to glue, so might hold better. I'll put the pvc pipe into one of the inserts. I also plan on putting rebar up into the PVC, just using the PVC as a sheath to protect the glass from the rebar. I'll be using the GEII silicone. They won't be able to go out for a couple of months yet tho - as the ground is still froze.


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Here's the plastic pieces I thought might work for plate backs. That is, if the GE II will adhere plastic to glass/ceramic. I'm in Iowa with -20 to 110 temp range more or less.

Pic 1
Pic 2


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I use something similar to threekittens. I use a PVC elbow screwed into a PVC cap. The cap gives an ample surface for gluing to the glass flower back. As you can see in the photo I let the silicone ooze out a little around the cap. Doesn't look as tacky as it shows in the photo and I think it tends to give a better bond. It's on the back so it doesn't really show.

flower back


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There has been a lot of discussion about the most efficient glues on this forum. I realize that you are not talking about totems on this thread, but I wonder if any of you who are making totems have considered using Museum Gel. While I haven't used it outside under rugged weather conditions, I have used in my unair-conditoned home with great results. It only takes a few balls on the surface, which spread out. Within about an hour, it holds very tight. It dries to a transparent finish. The wonderful thing about it is that you can easily take it apart (to wipe out condensation?) by giving it a twist and just putting it together again. It can be reused and lasts forever. There are three different kinds, Quaketite(?), Museum Gel and Museum Putty, used for different surfaces. Its recommended for earthquake country to secure fragile things. It may not hold well on slanted or vertical surfaces and shouldn't by used in intense sunlight.


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so, just wondering in the long run which type of glue held up the best? and which type of joining to the plate worked out the best? just getting started making these and i want them to last. especially if i give them away or sell them.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

  • Posted by Dort none (My Page) on
    Sat, May 21, 11 at 22:53

So... 2 years later, what worked? What didn't? Yep, I'm brand new and have made 3 flowers but drilled them. I've broken enough stuff to be discouraged and want to use silicone if it holds.


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I've had great results with drilling. Actually I've never broken a piece drilling. Are you using a diamond core drill bit?


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Hi, I just saw this thread is revived. Gotta go Garden Club shopping today and I haven't made up the list yet (buying thousands of flowers with a couple of other GC members- so much fun). So won't have an extra time today between that and then working later to compensate.
I'll try to report back in a few days. Some things failed over the winter here (-20 F.)
Kathy


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Keeping in mind that epoxy is what they use to glue rear view mirrors to glass, and they last years in all kind of weather.

dcarch


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  • Posted by Dort none (My Page) on
    Wed, May 25, 11 at 11:06

I'm using a "spade" bit for tile and glass. All of the internet research I did before I started said that this type of bit will last longer that the diamond type. How many items can you drill before yours wears out? How much was your bit?


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The cost of diamond core bits depends on the brand, size of the bit, and the retailer. I use Hitachi and the cost is between $10 and $15. I've never broken a piece of glass and I haven't had to replace any bits yet. I'm not sure how many pieces I've drilled. I use water as lubrication and I'm careful with the speed and pressure. Not too slow and not too fast. Regarding the pressure ...if I see smoke I back off on the pressure and make sure I have enough water lubricating.

I've watched DBF break and crack many pieces using the spade type bit. So I've decided that the small extra cost of the diamond core bit actually saves me money.

So when possible I like to drill in lieu of glue. For projects that I can't drill, my favorite glass to glass glue is "Glass, Metal, & More". It's water and weatherproof for outdoor use and it dries clear. However, I've had mixed results in using this glue when glueing pieces that have different substrates (i.e. glass to some bone china.) I have a tube of GE Silicone II but haven't tried it yet.


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still wondering what glue for metal to glass held up the best and what/how was used for the hook? i don't think i want to do the drilling thing, but if you do how do you then attach it to the stem? how are leaves attached to the stem? please help a newbie. thanks!


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I think as probably been said here before that gluing pieces to hold them in place and gluing something that will have pressure such as hanging are two different things. GEII as I understand is really a sealer. It works well for holding but doesn't have the strength for hanging and pulling. Also just edges touching may not be enough for the GEII to hold.

I have a GOG window glued with GOOP for plumbing that has been hanging outside in rainy WA for 7 or 8 years. Just this winter I had two pieces fall off. I may have been that water got in a little and froze and pushed it loose. The GOOP seemed to have become a little brittle too.

Just my observations .


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I'm another driller. I've tried glue and it didn't work so I'm done experimenting when I know what works. I use the tile & glass bit and I've broken a few, some because of my own error not the bit. It's more time consuming but I can feel confident that my plates won't be falling apart plus a screw, washers & nut are cheap and easy to find for attaching to the copper pipe :)

Now, if I give the totems a try I will use the GEII.


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Hi everyone!

I just double checked my garden, and the automotive goop held spoons are still attached after 2 winters. Also several older ones with pipe fittings that had fallen apart have now held together for 2 winters with automotive goop. Its a lucky thing because I'm giving two of them away: one of my closest friends grandaughter has a new home and I'm giving them as a housewarming gift. She had asked to buy a couple. I'm actually very flattered that she wanted them.
HD no longer carries automotive goop so I've got to go to an automotive store.

However I believe that some of the garden signs that I made for the local shelter have fallen off their plastic pipe fittings! I haven't had time yet to go over and check it out and fix them, but I'll report (probably next week) when I do. I used plastic pipe fittings and conduit over there because I thought it would be less dangerous if it fell apart. So it seems likely that the automotive goop didn't work as well on plastic.

BTW, to get goop on both surfaces: I put some goop on the spoon then pressed it onto the plate, then pulled apart. That's how I got goop in the right place on the plate. You let it sit for a few minutes (whatever the label says, I don't remember) The press together.

One of my totems (geii)feel apart (into 2 pieces) this winter. But it was slightly crooked and on a hillside and I think that's why.

Have fun.
Kathy


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Thanks for the update....
I have not had any flowers out, but my totems with
GEII have held up outside for about 5-6 years. I have had
only 2 to separate--one got knocked over and came apart at the seam, and one 'ceramic' piece flaked off and came apart-the GEII held. We have had dry, hot 100+ summers, and the last 2 winters we have had more below freezing weather than I wanted, living in Florida!!!LOL
I know this is a plate flower post, but thought I would throw this in.


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I forgot to say that a spoon and a pipe fitting with plumbers goop from spring 2 years ago failed over the winter. (These may be my last ones with plumbers goop, I can't find my notes, so I'm not sure. But I made them right before the older ones with PG fell apart.) I couldn't find the automotive goop, so I used "fast steel" which is one of those putty like epoxys that comes in a tube to repair them. I've got to photo them so I remember which ones they are. It will be interesting to see if they hold up metal to metal. The spoon was metal to metal because there was a washer on the back of the plate. It must have been one that I originally had a pipe fitting on. I need to better organize my results and start a new thread, which can refer back to this one. Once the urgent gardening season is over and I start making stuff again, I will do so.
Kathy


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gorilla glue. i get flustered just hearing that. word. i glued a spatula to my new countertop. it was kinda funny but terrifying at the same time. it came off fine with no damage to anything .


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Wanting to make some of the flower plates,with some of my
grandmothers plates, to give to children and grandchildren.

I was wondering what you'all have decided is best to glue, glass to glass, for heat and cold weather, before I give them as gifts?


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Ge silicone ii for windows and doors, clear: for plates to plates, glass or ceramic
Automotive goop for spoon to the back of a plate

Kathy/toomuchglass who lives in WI says that lexel works as well as silicone and dries clear, so I'm going to try it on a bunch instead of ge silicone ii. It is a bit frustrating how the ge ii doesn't really dry clear.

Kathy


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threekittens_ia
Where do you find the white flange pieces? I've looked at several hardware stores for something just like this and cannot find them.

I've never used a flattened spoon before but I'm going to try it right now. I've been using E-6000 for 2 years and have had excellent results so I'm going to use it with my spoon back today. I'll leave my plate flower outside after it's cured and see what happens. I'm selling at a craft fair next month so I'll see how it holds up. Thanks for sharing.


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Hi Katherine,
I think you will find that embellishments stay on with either ge silicone ii for window and doors, clear OR Lexel clear, which actually dries totally clear but is more expensive than ge ii. People in Wisconsin and Montana use lexel with good results outside all winter, so I'm now using it on clear things, on their word. The only problem is it takes a LONG time to cure, and Toomuchglass says if you don't use the tube pretty quickly it dries up. (Odd considering that the cure time is so long?)
There are some other people here who drill their pieces. I don't dare yet. But some pieces that I would like to use are quite heavy and I think drilling may be the way to go.
I'm looking forward to more about your creations.
Kathy


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Glue for arizona summers

I have been browsing this topic for info for Arizona summer. A GOG window I did 4 or 5 years ago (B/4 this forum for me) has discolored glue that has failed in many places. I'm sure it hangs out all summer. I must have used Goop as this was all I knew about at the time. I want to redo it but can't decide what glue will stand the 120 degree days in Quartzsite
Any ideas?


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I think most people use ge silicone ii for windows and doors clear for gog. I guess lexel should work too. Just don't hang it too soon since the cure time is so long. Lots of people use ge ii in hot climates. I haven't heard as much about lexel which is more expensive but much clearer.
Kathy


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Wow, what a wonderful collection of what sticks the best and the longest! I've tried using GE Silicon II but found it not as easy to apply as what I've been using, E6000 which comes in a smaller tube and I can get a very nice bead of glue right where I want it. Now the sad news is that after having my totems out for the last 2 years in 90 - 110 degree summers and winters with low 30's/high 20's I've found the glue has turned from clear to opaque. Nothing has fallen apart though. UGH!! So today I went to HD and purchased a new tube of GE Silicon II clear for Windows. Now I need to know how long it takes to set up before I could think about selling an item? Also it sounds like maybe for plate flowers the spoons should be applied with some other type of glue? Maybe I could still use my E600 for the backs of the flowers. Time always tells but it seems like everything has been good until two years goes by.


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Lexel users- does this stuff smell really bad?
DH said I'll need lots of ventilation to use this stuff...


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Flowers geii sets up quite quickly. I would think a couple of days would be fine. I attach the spoons with automotive goop and that definitely takes a couple of days.

Lexel takes a month to cure. I didn't notice any particular smell but I did use it mostly out on the porch.

Kathy


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

The information that I'm getting is that E6000 doesn't work well for outdoor use. A MONTH cure for Lexel??? I read 1-2 weeks! I only used it once because of the long cure time, but have thought about trying it again. I've been using GE silicone for the spoons on the back of flowers. I tried pulling them off and they wouldn't budge. Should I change to automotive goop?


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I've been using E6000 for two years and it's been perfect for holding together totems and plate flowers with spoons. The only negative that I've experienced is that it seems to have turned opaque on some of the totems. I inspected my PF's today and they haven't shown signs of the glue turning opaque. It seems like GEII is the one being used widespread and for quite some years so it must be the one to use. Has anyone experienced the clear turning white or opaque?


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I add glass pieces to my sculptures; many I have posted here off and on. The link KatherineMidwest posted shows a drill used to make holes in the plates. I prefer a Dremel Tool. It is so much easier to manipulate and diamond bits are inexpensive on ebay. I can't function without a Dremel Tool it is the most versatile of all my tools. With the "cut-off" wheel you can easily trim the mounting bolt right down to the nut.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Hoping this posting isn't dead and someone will reply =) Kathy, thank you so much for posting your experiments and results. Greatly appreciate it!! Your work is lovely too! I've been researching and experimenting for several months now with plate flowers and different types of adhesive and haven't found anything yet to be truly successful. I live in the southwest...VERY hot summers and can be very cold winters, but with very little moisture. The Lexel I tried first, but found that it varies greatly as to it's cure time if it even cures at all. Some items on the same flower done the same day in the same conditions would cure in a few days...others a few weeks...others over a month. On another PF, parts of it cured while others didn't cure at all???? It remained a gooey mess. I can't figure it out. Any ideas/suggestions on as to why that may occur?? I've used Liquid nails clear small projects (for indoor/outdoor use) goes on very well and seems to have a secure hold, but don't hold up outside for even a day. I have used two part epoxies for many years and have always liked them for most of my projects, but found it unsuccessful for this application (too brittle). I will try the GE Silicone II, but was hoping to have several flowers done before Christmas this year to give as gifts =( and not sure how to get the old/unsuccessful adhesive off to redo with the GE II. I would sure appreciate any suggestions and thank you again for posting your results!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I've used GE silicone for years with success. Once in awhile I have a failure, but I find that out before putting them outside. I pull hard on all the glued pieces. If they feel even a little bit 'soft' I take them apart and do over. Doesn't happen very often. Just make sure when you buy the silicone that the date hasn't expired. It's imprinted on the bottom end of the tube and is hard to see. I get the squeeze tube but some people use the tube with the gun.

Getting the old glue off is the yucky part. I scrape and sand until I'm sure it's all gone. Nothing sticks to silicone after it's cured.

We live in a rather mild climate and I leave my flowers out all year around. No hot summers, but we have some winter temps around 32 degrees or a little below. I have a relative in Okla. who has one of my flowers and she hasn't had any problem with the heat. I don't know if she brings it in during the winter or not. Good luck.
Laura


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thank you for your reply, Laura! Thank you also for your advice and experience! I will check the expiration date on the Lexel...I'll be ticked if it has expired as it's pretty expensive. Tried it again on a new PF and it didn't set up at all....simply remained a gooey mess =(

I will definitely give the GE a try.

I must admit, I'm not looking forward to trying to get the old adhesive off, but I will get to it as Christmas is right around the corner =)

Thank you again!
Holly


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I'm just starting this cause I saw them at a trade days and loved them but the lady would not reveal what glue she used. I have googled and googled and came to an interesting conclusion.What could be stronger and more waterproof than aquarium sealent?Any thoughts out there?


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Aquarium sealant is what I use. I've tried other stuff, but it seems to eventually get brittle and give way. Haven't had that problem with the aquarium sealant. Only down side is that I have only found the aquarium sealant in small tubes, so it gets expensive that way.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks for your reply. I guess if it holds well,in the long run it's worth it!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I just made my first plate flowers and a bird bath. I used the GE Silicone II Caulk and am hoping all holds! I'm in PA and we get very hot, humid summers and pretty cold winters. I just assumed I would take in the flowers at end of summer but if they will hold up in the cold, they would be pretty out there in the snow. What is everyone using for the pole? Do wooden dowel rods hold up?


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

With the first few flowers and totems I made I used wooden dowel rods. They lastest about two years before they rotted in the soil. I now use a piece of rebar and put a piece of painted pvc over it to hang the flower on. I'm using bent spoons on the back of my plate flowers. The totems can just slip over the piece of rebar. I've been using liquid rubber to coat the ends of the rebar so it doesn't hit on the glass. Good luck and have fun making more.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks for your reply. Good to now about the dowel rod.I am going to try the rebar. I found a couple bottles to glue on the back of the plates and then I will just slip them over the rebar. I would not have thought to coat it! Will do that too! Thanks again!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I'm trying to figure out why you use adhesives. Why not drill the glass and mount the created flower using a glass drawer-pull or simple nuts and bolts with a cover glued over the screw head?


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Not sure this forum is still active, but I thought I'd post my gluing results with my plate flowers. I drill, glue AND screw my pieces together, so if one fails, the other should hold. I use the bent spoon method for hanging and the screw goes from the front plate thru the back of the spoon and then secured with a nut. I glue each piece together as well. I've used GE Silicone II, but only on solid colored plates....it does not dry clear for me, only opaque, so I'm not pleased with it on clear plates. I use Plumbers GOOP to glue the spoon to the back plate and have had good results with it so far. Also use the GOOP for clear pieces on my plates instead of GE II and it stays clearer. I used the GE II on my garden totems, but it is very visible and opaque, so I won't use it again. I recently purchased Pittsburg Glass Block silicone after reading it dries clear and is waterproof, so I'm trying that on a totem tomorrow. I'll post my results on this glue. I haven't had any luck finding clear E6000, only white and black at my Hobby Lobby stores, but sounds like it has it's drawbacks too. I'm hoping the Pittsburg glue is the answer.
Thanks, Kathy for all the valuable info you've provided in this forum. Very helpful!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

YES! Glue is soooo fickle. I drill whenever possible. I didn't do any plate flowers or tea cup bird feeders last year but I have lots of plates, cups, and vases waiting to be put together. I will try to put some together in the next few weeks and photograph my process.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

  • Posted by cnm1 6 Oh (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 5, 14 at 6:48

I drilled through spoons too!!! I do not bend the spoons. The ends just go in the 3/4 in copper pipe. When I need clear glue, I use auto goop. Very good stuff - especially for metal to glass. I use GE silicone if not visible and glass to glass.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I bend the spoon to slip into the conduit or copper pipe. I've added a few pics of my plate flowers. Would love to see yours!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Not sure how to post more than one photo on a post, so I'll post follow-ups on this post to show you some of my plates.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

The top piece on this flower was glued only and has held up all year. The only problem with this one was I used the copper bell holder on the back and it didn't hold, even though I put a screw thru the back of it. Not sure if any of you have used this method, but I prefer the spoon so much more....so far they've held up beautifully.

This post was edited by mimi2kbc on Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 19:20


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Mimi, I love the center of that last flower. Gorgeous.
I am hoping to learn to drill glass this winter. I bought the bit, just don't dare to try yet.
My plate flowers are mostly holding up well except the ones with pipe fittings on the back. Two failed this summer after many years and two stick together. Get silicone I'm on the glass and automotive goop on the spoon. I want to drill so I can make larger nodding flowers.
Kathy


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i meant to say...

Ge II and automotive goop work best for me. Using the kindle fire Dh got me for Christmas and it has mind of its own!
Kathy


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Very interesting. I've always used the GE silicone with good luck. And, no it doesn't dry totally clear so sometimes I've had to 'hide' it somehow. Sometimes I've covered it with flat marbles. Does the automotive goop dry clearer than the GE silicone?

I've always been reluctant to try something else. I have flowers in my yard that have been there year around for 4-5 years. I used plastic pipe fittings on them, but I'm using spoons on all those that I sell (can't tell you where. Was told it was advertising). I was painting the pipe fittings green, but the paint scratched or wore off in spots no matter what kind I used.

E6000 is great stuff, but very smelly and toxic. It's sometimes used to repair boats, but I've read that it doesn't hold up good under UV rays. There is one for outside use, but I've never seen it in the stores...just on the web.

Here's one of my flowers. Picture of back on the next post.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Red flower back


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Here's one of my favorites. Sold recently.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks, Kathy. That was my first plate flower and the small vase and beads that I glued are still on!
Laura, your flowers are absolutely beautiful! So you glue only, no drilling? I use the Plumbers GOOP, not automotive and yes it dries clearer than the silicone, but sometimes clouds up just a bit. Still clearer than silicone though and I'll be trying the glass block glue tomorrow, so I'll post the results.
I would like to try some craft shows this spring and see if I could sell my flowers. I haven't seen any around here, so they might be something different. I'm posting a few more pics of my plates. Having so much fun!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I've given all my plates as gifts and everybody loves them!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

One of my favorites. Also made smaller plates like this for kitchen flower pots.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

This was made with Christmas dishes and made great gifts!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

One last pic....this is such a sweet little flower. Hope I can find some more plates like this.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

They're beautiful, Mimi. You have some very unique centers. Yes, I use only glue (GE sil). Haven't gotten into drilling.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks and I really love your violet flower, especially the center. I have tons of bead stuff, so I'm going to try and make some like this. I'm assuming you glue the copper wires into the center cup.
Here's another one of my gift flowers.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

  • Posted by cnm1 6 Oh (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 13, 14 at 5:47

Everyone has beautiful flowers. All the craft fairs around here have someone selling glass flowers. Most are over priced in my opinion.
Laura - how did you do the stamens? I have thought of adding some but have not come up with a method. I used that exact frosted lavender piece in one of mine too.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I start with marine epoxy...the kind where you have to knead the white and green together. I make a small lump with the underside flattened. I cut copper wire and add glass bead to one end. Insert the other end into the epoxy while it's still soft. When it has cured I paint it either copper like the wire or the color of the flower. Then I glue it into the flower center piece with GE silicone.

(I flatten the bottom of the epoxy on my work table and insert the stamens. Then when the epoxy is fairly solid but not cured I pry it from the table with a knife or other flat object)


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Genius!!! Your work is outstanding! Is the violet piece painted glass or actually violet glass? I have a hard time finding colored glass and have not tried glass painting. I read that it works fine, but just haven't tried it.

What prices are your plates selling for? I did sell a few similar to my plates above before Christmas for $40 each, but don't know if that's too much or not enough. Like I said earlier, I haven't seen any for sale around the Houston area, so don't have a market to gauge.
Thanks so much for sharing your awesome techniques...I really appreciate it.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Love the stamenes. Laura and Mimi you r flowers are fabulous!
Btw, I use automotive goop only to attach the spoons. Plumbers goop failed here in New Hampshire.
Kathy


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Thanks, Kathy. BTW....we've been making frequent fall foliage trip to NE since 1986 and NH is our favorite state!!!

Plumbers GOOP might fail on my spoons here in TX too if I didn't screw as well as glue. Have either of you ever used Liquid Nails? I used it yesterday to make this garden totem for my neighbors Bday and it is clear, clear, clear!!! It says waterproof, but don't know how it will hold up outside. I'm using his totem as an experiment and if it fails, he won't mind, I'll just replace it. I'm going to try the Auto GOOP too. I must have more than a dozen glues in my studio, so what's one more!
So nice to have an open communication with flower makers. I really enjoy this forum.
Kathy (yep, that's my name too!)


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

mimi, the violet piece is violet glass. I have a hard time finding colored glass, too, and have considered the glass paint. I even have trouble finding plates in good colors for the flowers. Today I hit the mother lode. Found colorful plates as well as colored glass all in just one thrift shop.

I sell the flowers for $28 - to $34 on the web...mostly $30 and up, without the rod stem. It would cost the buyers more for shipping the rod than it costs to buy one. I give the option of including the rod if they want to pay a couple dollars more for the rod and pay for the extra shipping.

Locally they're selling for $25. That's what I was selling them for when I was doing the craft shows. I only know of one other couple who is making and selling them here and they charge $25. It has gotten too hard for me to do the set up and take down, so I went strictly to the web. Taking the photos is time consuming, but I can sit at my computer to work on the inventory and print the shipping labels, sit and do the packaging. Then I drop them off at the post office. No waiting in line. If you were selling them for $40 it's obviously not too much. Go for it!

I sold 27 last year..a little over average 2 per month. Hoping to do better this year.

I have some automotive goop, but haven't tried it. I have such good luck with the GE silicone that I'm afraid to try something else, especially when I'm selling them.

Here's another one of my favorites.

Laura


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

This flower is beautiful in the gorgeous NH foliage! Thanks for the pricing info. Guess I'll just give it a try and see what happens! And isn't it exciting to find all that colored glass!!!

Well, I tried the glass block glue on the tower above and some pieces stuck but others didn't. It might need to cure longer than the silicone. I sure wish it would work because it dries super clear!
Thanks again for all the info, it's very helpful.
MiMi


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Sorry,Laura.... just realized you are not in NH....Kathy is! However, looks like you might get some fall foliage in your area. We have 2 seasons in TX...green and brown!


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I'm so glad that I found this post...I just had one of my plates in my backyard fall down this morning. I'm going to try the GE or Automotive Goop next time. I'm a little concerned, because I used apoxy on the ones that I've hung on my porch...I hope they two don't fall down...they are lot exposed to the heat like the ones in the back yard.


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Mostly a lurker here. I would like to make some plate flowers but can't find anything on what to use to hold these up. No one seems to post a picture of the back. Can someone post some pictures and instructions on what is needs to stick them in the ground? Thanks, Richie


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

Hi Richie,
Most of us use bent flattened spoons either stuck or screwed to the back then the spoon is inserted into a piece of metal or plastic conduit.
Kathy


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I was at a craft fair today where a lady had beautiful glass garden stake plates. Asked what glue she uses....she said E6000 is highly toxic, so she orders Lexel glue online. Needs a full 30 days to cure before placing outdoors


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RE: Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

I got a tube of lexel some time ago, but didn't want to wait for the long cure time so stuck with ge silicone for windows and doors. It has held up very well. For inside items I use sometimes use E6000. i wear gloves and also a mask if the fumes seem to strong. I think I've read that it's not toxic after it cures. Does anybody else know anything about that?


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