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lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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Posted by nigel1965 DFW TX (My Page) on Mon, Jan 16, 12 at 14:23
My lawn has been healthy, fed and properly water for many years. I have until recently been able to successfully control weeds by controlling my irrigation (1/2 inch water twice weekly)and only needed to pull up the odd invader by hand. I avoided weedkillers because I have lots of shrubs on my lawn areas, but 3 years ago the house next door was sold and the new owner has allowed his lawn to basically become an overgrown forest of weeds. His "lawn" is about 95% weeds of every kind imaginable and during this mild winter they have now spread onto my lawn and I have had to resort to using a lawn weedkiller (not overly impressed with the results). My grass is dormant. I'm using Ortho weed b gone max for southern lawns.
I know I'm probably going to need to do more than one treatment and I want to get this under control before the grass wakes up. We have several issues with the neighbor and the lawn is the least of them, suffice to say raising the issue with him will most likely exasperate the situation.
Sorry for the long intro, but I wanted to give as much information as to the cause of the weed invasion as I could. I would have no problem if my neighbor looked after his lawn.
I was wondering if anyone had a better method, given my circumstances, to control these weeds or am I doing pretty much the best I can.
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| What kind of lawn? I have an acre of land. 1/2 is kept up Bermuda, the other 1/2 is a free for all of every weed imaginable in these parts. If anything, the bermuda is creeping into the weedy 1/2. Pre emergents and cultural practices are to thank for this. So what grass do you have, and what weeds are you fighting? |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| I don't know specifically the type of grass, It's not so pretty during the winter dormant period, but during the summer it's a dense tightly packed grass that I cut at 3 inches height.It greens on the canopy and no light gets below the canopy so if you cut it too low you are left with a brown lawn for a few days. The grass isn't the issue and probably I'll be able to control the weeds a lot better during the summer when the grass is thick and tall. My problem is until then I have next doors ugly weeds invading. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| Sounds like you have Saint Augustine. I say this because there are basically 2 kinds of grass in DFW that being Saint Augustine and Bermuda. Since you have trees we know it is not Bermuda, so it has to be Saint Augustine. If it were Bermuda you would not have this problem with weeds taking over. Really only 1 thing you can do and that is use Atrazine if you can still find it. It is the only herbicide that is truly effective on Saint Augustine. Atrazine kills everything but SA. If you use any other type of herbicide on SA it will likely kill the SA. There are some new herbicides out for SA, but all reports and indications are they are not effective and a waste of time and money. If you had Bermuda all you would need to do this time of year is spray with Round Up. It will kill anything green but leave dormant Bermuda alone. Don't try it with your SA as it will kill it. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| It's probably weed seeds that have been in your lawn for years and years, and not some evil invaders from the neighbors. But who cares, right? They're there, and you want them dead. A fall pre emergent likely could have prevented this to begin with. I'd bet that these are winter annuals. If you let them be, they would definitely succumb to your brutal summer temps with no effort or herbicide on your part. If we knew the grass and weed type, it would really help. It could be as simple as spot spraying with round up in totally dormant Bermuda grass, but until we know for sure..... Any herbicide is going to be limited in colder temps, though. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| grasshole well the weeds are only along the border between the two properties . It's a 5-10 foot wavy line and I have no weeds on the other side of my property. I will say you are probably right that the weeds are from seeds, this is Texas and it is windy and my neighbor only cuts the weeds down when he can't see his chihuahua. The weeds all flower way before he gets the mower out. I know during summer the grass will grow thick and the weeds will be controllable (heat and proper irrigation encouraging deep roots) I just don't want these ugly things on my lawn over winter. We had a few days rain last week and are getting 70F temperatures and the weeds sprouted up fast. I've included a picture of the dormant grass and next doors weeds, I tried to get a closeup with the wide selection of weeds. |
Here is a link that might be useful: weed pictures
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| Please wait for texasweed to confirm, but that looks like you have dormant Bermuda to me. Which is good, because if it is FULLY dormant, you can use plain old round up and be done with those weeds. As for the weed pic, I don't know if you should kill it or make a salad! LOL! Just kidding. I'm sure texasweed will be able to confirm or deny our suspicions by those pics, so hang tight! |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| You mentioned your weed-loving neighbor only cuts his grass when it's so tall, he can't see his chihuahua, so his weeds often develop seeds that get blown into your yard. Maybe you could offer to cut his grass free of charge. How would that sit with him? |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| ZoysiaSod If only it were that easy. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| Zoysia Grass Well butter my but and call it a biscuit, it is Zoysia. Your in luck. Go buy some Round Up and spray anything green in your yard. It will not hurt the Zoysia one little bit as long as it is dormant. Second comment come next spring learn how to mow Zoysia, 3 inches is way too high for Zoysia. You need to be down to 1 to 2 inches. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| Texas weed. Thanks for the Ident and advice. I've always set the cut to 3 inches from advice on a gardening TV show and online reading about keeping a weed free lawn without chemicals. The idea being longer blades allow deeper roots, twice weekly 1/2 inch watering get the water deep in the ground beyond the reach (mostly) of the weed roots. It's been a pretty successful tactic thus far, but it appears to be hopeless if weeds get a hold in the dormant periods. Also 3 inches seems to be the height all the lawn services around here cut to (city included). I will however try 2 inches this year. I cut down to an inch and a half the last cut of the season before it goes dormant so it doesn't look too bad over winter and it takes a few cuts before I get to 3 inches. That way I don't get the brown lawn after mowing. Zoysiasod. I've always been one to avoid chemicals as much as possible. I feel a failure for using it now :( I had to resort to commercial lawn fertilizer as natural fertilizer is surprisingly hard to come by around here, at least in the quantities I need for the lawn. Grasshole (Not too sure about the name :P ) Thank you for the help. It is very much appreciated. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| I've always set the cut to 3 inches from advice on a gardening TV show and online reading about keeping a weed free lawn without chemicals. The idea being longer blades allow deeper roots, twice weekly 1/2 inch watering get the water deep in the ground beyond the reach (mostly) of the weed roots. Problem is that advice is dead wrong with respect to Zoysia and Bermuda, and has nothing to do with root depth. As for cutting height depends on the variety. The fine blade varieties like Diamond. Zoro. Emerald (looks like you have one of the finer textured varieties) should be maintained with a reel mower at 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. The thicker wider leaf varieties like Meyers should be maintained between 1 to 2 inches. It is keeping them short that keeps them weed free, not letting them get tall, causing the grass to shade itself out, thin out, and allow weeds to grow tall and go to seed. When kept short the grass will form a very dense mat and choke out all weeds. Any weeds that do pop up cannot survive keeping their heads chopped off, weakening them, and not allowing them to mature and produce seeds. As for your watering has everything to do with root depth. Your method is tailored to force shallow root growth, not deep leaf growth. You are doing this by watering too frequently and too little water when you do water. Zoysia and Bermuda should not be watered until they show signs of wilt. Once they show signs of wilt, then they should be watered with 1 to 1-1/2 inches all at once to drive the water deep into the soil to 6 to 10 inches. Watering deep will encourage the roots to go deep to seek the water. The deeper the roots the less you have to water. The dryer it is on top the better because it deprives weed seeds from water and germinating. What you are doing is shallow watering, and too frequently. Only the top couple of inches will get wet and the roots will stay right there along with all the weed seeds getting all the water they need to germinate and grow. Here is a couple of pretty good links to reference too: http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/plants/landscape/lawns/hgic1217.html http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/PDFFiles/000020/Zoysiagrass.pdf http://alabama-grass.com/View.aspx?Zoysia-Lawn-Grass-Maintenance http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/LH/LH01100.pdf Note they are all saying the same thing I am telling you. |
Hog Wash
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| http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2011/12/dr-huber-lays-it-all-out-roundup-is-killing-us/ That is pure Green Mafia propaganda. Sounds like something the EPA (Employment Prevention Agency) would publish. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| "That is pure Green Mafia propaganda. Sounds like something the EPA (Employment Prevention Agency) would publish." At least she finally quit quoting that Turkey fellow. But I agree. Scare tactic BS doesn't sit well with me. I don't go to the organic forum and disagree with everyone there. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| Nigel, Texas-Weed makes a very good point about watering deeply but infrequently, and Texas-Weed is an expert. I'll probably never agree with the use of Roundup, but Texas-Weed's watering info above is spot-on, and exactly what you need. I love reading Texas-Weed's contributions. He's helped thousands here. I can't say the same for GrassHole, though. And he's mistaken about my gender (I'm sure it was a deliberate mistake--GrassHole doesn't play well with others). |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| "And he's mistaken about my gender (I'm sure it was a deliberate mistake" Nope. Honest mistake. Thought I read it here somewhere. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| I agree with TW, also. In addition with zoysia or bermuda, making your last cut significantly lower than the rest of the season could be a mistake. If you mow as high as 2 inches, then the blades on those grasses grow at the end of a stem. If you mow too low after mowing higher, then all you will have left is the stems leaving nothing to block the sunlight to the weed seeds below. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| Texas-weed I thank you for your advice, I am taking it onboard and will change my mowing practices. However I will state that, even though it may have simply been pure luck, until this mild winter my regime has worked very well regarding weed control and my lawn has been pretty lush. Last years drought and water conservation mandates had some detrimental effect to all the lawns in our area, but my lawn did pretty well. I'm not disputing your expertise, I'm simply stating my actual success and lack of problems regarding the lawn itself. Regarding irrigation the lawn gets 1 inch per week and even if we ignore the advice that led me to divide it into two 1/2 inch sessions I have found that because of the clay soil if I water too much in one go I end up with puddles that evaporate before the water has a chance to seep down and I get a lot of run off. My irrigation (8 zones) runs at 4 A.M. to keep evaporation down as much as possible while not having water sit on the grass overnight. I have not seen signs of disease with this timing. In an ideal world I would have the financial wherewithall to have perfect soil etc. but I actually have managed to keep a pretty good lawn. I do genuinely appreciate your advice, I will be acting on it. I just feel I'm being lectured for causing issues I do not have. My issue was weeds suddenly sprouting up in an area next to a weed forest during my lawn's dormant period in a mild winter after we had a few days heavy rain. While I don't claim to have the worlds most perfect lawn or claim to be worthy of disputing your recommendation or wise enough to consider offering advice to anyone else, I haven't had any issues with the lawn outside the dormant period. I now feel like I'm being offensive by being defensive and appear ungrateful, I am not, in fact I'm exceedingly grateful for everyone's advice and time taken to respond. I wholeheartedly Thank you all for your help. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| I do understand the clay soil issue, but you can deal with it, you just have to use a different technique. Rather than try to put 1-inch all down at once and have run-off or pooling, switch to another zone for a while and come back a while later to finish the application. |
RE: lawns and living next to the weed garden from hell.
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| I just feel I'm being lectured for causing issues I do not have. Sometimes we see issues on the horizon that you don't see. Improper watering, for example, will lead to weeds. Weeds lead to chemicals or exasperation, so we try to correct issues we see before you see them. |
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