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New here with questions

Posted by slingblade1177 Texas (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 12, 12 at 21:57

I have lived in my house for a year and a half now. I recently installed a sprinkler system with the help of my dad. I am now ready for a new lawn. After briefly reading this forum, it appears I have no clue about what I am doing.

That being said, I have noticed my neighbor's lawn down the street from me over the past year. It has to be the best looking yard in our neighborhood. I want to have a lawn like theirs and would love to know what kind of grass they have. I left a note on their door but never heard back from them. I did take pictures though and will gladly post them here if I can figure out how. I am having trouble figuring it out. If anyone can tell me how, I will post them here. Thanks in advance for any help.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: New here with questions

To post a picture here, first you have to host it on the Internet somewhere. Photobucket and Shutterfly are two such services. After you can see the picture on the Internet, then the fun begins. You have to write just a little HTML code into your GardenWeb post. The code looks like this

<img src="http://yourImageURLHereEndingWith.jpg">

The quotes are important and have to be there. How do you find your image URL? Easy. You right-click on the image and select Copy Image Location. Then you can just paste that address in between the quotes.

Having gone through that, you might not have to go to the trouble of posting the picture. If we knew where you lived in Texas it would help a lot. Texas is a big place but usually the only two places where people write in from are Dime Box and Mule Shoe (kidding). Tell us where you are and we can help you better. I'm going ahead and assuming your neighbor has St Augustine. Do a Google Image search on both St Augustine Turf and on bermuda grass. The neighbor will have one or the other with a 99.99% guarantee. Do you or your neighbor have any shade in the yard? If so then St Augustine is your only choice.

St Augustine must be put down as sod. There are no seeded varieties. You can put sod down any time of year. The good bermuda also comes as a sod and can be done any time of year. If you want to go much less expensive, then bermuda seed will be your likely choice. The seeded varieties of bermuda are not as nice as the sod but lots of people use them.

Hope this helps. Once you find out what the grass is we can help you with care and feeding. And thank you for reading the forum. You can save a lot of headaches down the road by doing a little reading first.


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RE: New here with questions

Ok, I figured out the whole posting the pic thing. They are very large and at the bottom of my post. Not sure how to resize them, so I apologize in advance. Also, the pictures are not the best quality, but my phone is the only camera I have.

Ok, now on to my questions and answers for you. First, I live in Frisco, Texas. I read one of your other replies to another person in Frisco and definitely learned a few things. I do know what St. Augustine looks like and know it isn't that. I'm also pretty sure this is not Bermuda. My dad seems to think it is a type of Fescue. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but their grass is just a whole different shade of green than most the grass on our street. It is also the only grass that has somewhat stayed green throughout the winter. Not sure how that is possible, but I like it.

There is definitely shade in their lawn under the trees and on their side yards. Yet, it somehow stays green year round. My yard is similar except I am on a corner and only one side of my house will not get as much sun.

From what I read on your other post, you said not to till the yard before seeding. I think I want to go the seed route only because it is cheaper. Can you explain why tilling is not good/necessary? I actually want to till my entire yard, only to even it out a bit due to the uneven lines I now have from installing my sprinkler system. This is all I have for now. Thanks in advance for any info yall can give me. And now the oversized pics......

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic


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RE: New here with questions

In regards to tilling.

Think about those irrigation trenches that are settling and giving you those uneven lines.

By tilling, you would be doing the same thing to your entire yard. It will make the WHOLE lawn settle lumpy and uneven like your irrigation trenches are now.

You would do better bringing in soil that is equivalent to your own and leveling that way. Tilling will not level your soil, and will make things worse.


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RE: RE: New here with questions

Couldn't it easily be leveled by simply raking it after tilling? I would think it would be fairly easy. However, I've never done this before and I am brand new to lawn and garden maintenance so I have no clue. :)


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RE: New here with questions

How did you get the soil back in your irrigation trenches?


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RE: Re:New here with questions

A rake and shovel. But for the most part, a rake


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RE: New here with questions

You seein' where I'm going with this? :D

Raking after tilling is going to give you the same results as raking after trenching. It will look smooth at first, but will eventually settle leaving you lumpy. Sorry.


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RE: New here with questions

You should have left a berm over top of your irrigation trenches to keep them from sinking back in. All the soil that came out of the trench has to go back in or you will have a sunken line along your pipes as the soil settles.

Assume you rototilled and leveled the top off. The problem is not at the top of the fluffy soil. The problem is down at the bottom. Rototillers are notorious for bucking and jiving over rocks and roots. You have plenty of trees for roots to be a big problem for a tiller. When the tiller bucks up you either simply move on or you come back to that spot and Really Give it Hell! In either case the untilled level of soil under the fluffy layer will be different from the untilled level all around that spot. Let's say you really dig in and instead of tilling it at 3 inches you get down to 5 inches. Then when you cover it up, there will be 3 inches of cover soil everywhere except the "hole" you made. It will have 5 inches of cover fluff. When the soil settles (a 3-year long process), it will have to settle all the way down into the hole you dug leaving you a hole at the surface. Everyplace the tiller bucked up and you moved on will have a 2-inch depth or less. When those places settle you will have bumps. If you want to smooth out your surface, work at the surface.

From what you describe the grass has to be fescue, rye or both. It is clear from the pix it is not bermuda, St Augustine, or Kentucky bluegrass. It is a bunch grass like fescue and rye. Bunch grass means the grass grows in clumps and does not spread quickly like the other grasses I mentioned. Bunch grasses need to be seeded every fall until you get the density you want to keep weeds out. Fescue and rye are both considered cool season grasses. Both annual rye and perennial rye are considered annual grasses in Texas because they both are dead by mid May. Fescue has a shot at making it through the summer heat, as is evidenced by your neighbor. However, you CANNOT hope to have a fescue lawn by this summer unless you sod it. Fescue seed planted now will not develop strong enough roots to handle the Frisco summer. It will die out and you will have a full crabgrass lawn by August. Fescue seed must be planted in September for you to have any success next year in Texas.

Your best bet for now would be to nurse your current turf along through the summer. Then in late August, scalp it down to nothing and add sand or topsoil where needed to fill in your holes. UNLESS you need to remove soil to bring the level back down. That happens all too often. We'll need pix of your lawn to know that. After you get the level you want, then seed and roll the seed down. Water it daily for 10 minutes, 3x per day, and it should be a lawn in a month. Then you will have all autumn, winter, and spring to develop tough roots for next season.


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RE: Re: Re: New here with questions

Thanks for all the info guys. I am leaving town this weekend and will post pics when I get back, and have more questions of course. I'm actually heading down to San Antonio for a weekend with my girlfriend. Thanks again.


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RE: Re Re: New here with questions

Ok, back from vacation and here are a few pics of my lawn. You can tell from the first pic that the side yard doesn't get much sun. I also have a huge tree on the left side of my house that provides too much shade if you ask me. I have really trimmed it to get some sunshine in there, but there is still a lot of shade.

When I bought my house a year and a half ago, the previous owners had bought St. Augustine sod and laid it down on the same side of as the large tree. I'm not sure why they did it, but I now have St. Augustine on one side and then the rest is Rye I think.

I would prefer to at least get seed of some sort and spread it over the areas where we trenched. Perhaps you guys can give me some suggestions. Obviously, I would like to go cheap since I will most likely try the fescue route in September.

Should I kill off all the St. Augustine and seed that entire side or is that a waste of money?

Thanks for any suggestions, and here are the pics.....

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RE: New here with questions

Oh my!

Your tree in the front has many issues. One is that someone once topped the tree causing the lower branches to all become "central leaders." When that happens the tree starts on the fast track to ugly. The large lower limbs that swoop out horizontally and then up are the leaders.

Next tree issue: See the roots in the grass? It looks like the previous owner has tried to cover those roots by bringing in more and more (and more and more) soil. Note the side is graded properly and pretty much level with the sidewalk. Those roots out front will continue to expand in diameter which will tend to encourage you to bring in still more soil. That is a lost cause. You might strongly consider removing the tree and replacing it with one that will keep its roots in the ground. Look around the neighborhood for better tree specimens.

Next tree issue: There is soil built up against the trunk of the tree. You should remove those bricks around the trunk and wash away any soil up against the sides. Tree trunks that are buried will acquire a fungus that swells the base of the tree preventing nutrients from flowing up and down. It kills the tree just like girdling kills trees. Root bark is different.

Your predecessors might have planted St Aug because of the dense shade from the tree. St Aug tolerates much more shade than most grasses.

It looks like your trenches are already settling. You might want to bring in more soil before the grass grows over and you can't find the trenches anymore...except for the dip where the trenches are.


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RE: New here with questions

Thanks for the info. I actually wanted to take that tree out when I first saw it. I still might.

What should I do for the mean time as far as putting down seed over where the trenches are? I would like the grass to grow over those areas soon. Also, should I kill off the st augustine and reseed until september when I go the fescue route?

You said I need to bring in more soil before the grass grows over. Does that mean I dont need to reseed in those trenched areas? I'm confused on what you meant about bringing in more soil "except for the dip where the trenches are."


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RE: New here with questions

The trenches are settling and will leave a new trench for your mower to deal with. Had you replaced all the soil that was originally in the trenches, your trenches would now look heaped up. That is because the soil loses its structure and becomes fluffy when you take it out of a hole. As the years go by, those heaps of soil regain their structure and become perfectly level with the rest of the yard. Since you did not replace all the soil in the trenches, they will continue to sink down as the soil structure returns. That is a 3 year process. If you heap new soil up on the current trench lines, you have a chance at getting it all back to normal without going through the pain and agony of scalping your lawn as the mower dips into the sunken trench lines.

Do not kill off your St Aug!!!!! It is your only hope to last until you decide to reseed. If you are going to install bermuda seed, then time to do that in your area is middle June (from then until the hottest part of summer). If you are going to seed with another grass, then wait until late August. Until then, take good care of your St Aug. Mow it at the mower's highest setting. Water 1 inch per month (now) all at one time. Toward the summer increase the watering frequency to once every 2 weeks and then once a week. Always water 1 full inch - at least until you learn how much water your grass needs. It probably needs less but start with an inch. And always water all at one time. Don't fall into the trap of watering daily for 10 minutes to get an inch per week. That is a recipe for weeds and disease.

If you are going to fertilize this year, wait until after you have mowed real grass (not weeds) for the second time. That will ensure you have active roots which can take up the fertilizer. Or you can just wait until Memorial Day.


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RE: New here with questions

OK, thanks again for the info. I have been looking at soil and am thinking of getting a couple of cubic yards from my local transfer station. Here is the link to what I might buy.

http://www.plano.gov/Departments/Environmental Services/yarddebris/T exas_Pure/Pages/Topdressing.aspx

Is this something that you think would be ok to build up my trenches? Also, that site recommends putting a quarter inch of it throughout the entire lawn. Do you think this is something I should do?

Thanks again for any info.


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RE: New here with questions

I'm with David on this one, but I have one piece of advice: get over the idea that your neighbor down the block has a great lawn because of the grass he is growing. There is no secret grass that looks better than all the others - it is possible to grow a beautiful lawn with any grass that will grow in your area. 75% of "beuatiful" is mowing, watering and taking proper care of the soil the grass grows in. A St Aug lawn could be really nice where you live.


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RE: New here with questions

Bump.

San Antonio, can you help me with my questions about the soil I found at my local transfer station? I really want to know if that is acceptable to use to build up my trenches and also whether I should use it to spread a 1/4 inch throughout my entire front and back yard.

I did have another question about weed killers. Last year I used a "season long" weed killer. It is readily apparent where I used it last year and where I did not. I still have a small strip that is overrun with weeds. Do you guys recommend using these "season long" weed killers?

Thanks again for any info.


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RE: New here with questions

Compost will completely disappear and not provide any volume after a year or so. Thus that product will not provide any benefit to your trenches.

Compost brings microbes to your soil. Assuming your soil is not sterile, I think the value is very limited. I would much rather spend a fraction of the cost of compost to use a real organic fertilizer like alfalfa pellets. I think the bang for the buck really favors organic fertilizer.

For your weeds you can almost always cure your weed problem by proper watering and mowing as I described above. By watering like I mentioned you will not get enough water on the weed seeds to germinate them. Sometimes Mother Nature intervenes and gives the weed seed enough water. Then your fall back position is tall grass. Weed seedlings need sunlight to take root. If you shade the little seedlings under the tall grass, they will die off before they get started.


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