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gurue6

While aerating, add compost, fertilizer, seed???

guruE6
10 years ago

Quick background: I bought my house a year ago. Grew up with a yard full of god knows what for grass that took minimal care to look decent. Now I moved into a house that has pure bermuda, and I stopped the spray treatment because I am cheap. I was cutting it too high for bermuda, because we used to cut ours high at the house, and now my bermuda was thin at the end of last summer. This thinness combined with a lack of drainage (thanks, Woodland Homes and Mike Friday) has given me a lot of bare spots and rather thin grass. I, quite literally, only applied fertilizer ONCE last summer. Once. The only other thing I did was cut the grass, and I did it with the cheapest side discharge push mower you can buy at Lowes.

After the atrocity that was this winter, where 2 huskies creating enough traffic to make even larger spots that look crappy by pushing my grass under the mud produced from the lack of drainage (thanks Woodland Homes and Mike Friday), I have decided that I am going to save my lawn.

The beginning of this spring gave me weeds. Quite a few of them. Most prominently Poa Annua. I found the "Bermuda Bible" on this site. In accordance with that and other reading, I put down pre-emergent in 3/02. I intend to reapply this weekend, which would put the applications 8 weeks apart. What about a post-emergent? I have heard that MSMA would do well on the Poa Annua, others have said just wait it out and be diligent with the pre-emergent.

QUESTION 1- Is applying the pre-emergent a good idea if I plan on planting bermuda seed? What if i avoid the areas I plan to seed?
QUESTION 2 - Should I put a post-emergent on the weedy areas? If so, when? "Bermuda Bible" says in may.

I then put down a 3-1-2 fertilizer on 4/14. Most of my grass is green at this point. I believe this overall has been a pretty decent plan to this point.

Now it is decision time, and I cannot find a definitive answer as to what the best COA is.

My yard has areas that are INCREDIBLY compact. Also, I doubt my "organic matter" is very high, even thought I didnt get a soil sample. The yard is basically all clay, everywhere. I also have a little thatch buildup in some places since I wasnt technically "mulching", I was only side discharging, and not everything decomposed efficiently. With this being said, I was thinking of the following plan:

4/27 - re-apply pre-emergent
5/12 - core aerate, seed bare areas, apply sand/compose mixture, fertilize with 1-0-0 in accordance with the "Bermuda bible"
6/16 apply more sand/compost for leveling low/bumpy areas and fertilize with 1-0-0

I plan to do more, obviously, but this is the questionable part. Does the 5/12 plan look like a good idea? The 1-0-0 is the ratio given from the "Bermuda Bible", but if I am planting seeds, should I change that? Should I only change it for that area? Will the aeration help with the thatch? Should I try to purchase some earch worms for the time after the aeration so that I dont have to do this again?

Will the pre-emergent hurt the seeds? What if I just avoid the areas I want to seed? Should I put post-emergent on the weeds I currently have?

Great site with a lot of smart people to help out. I look forward to discussing my issues!

Thanks in advance for all advice and help!

Comments (7)

  • Lisa
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If your going to use a pre emergent you have to wait to seed at least 6-12 weeks before seeding it will kill the seeds :)

  • guruE6
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, definitely noted. I desperately need to put some seed down, so should I hold off on the pre-emergent as a whole? Should I put pre-emergent only on the spots where I am not putting seed?

    Maybe it should be better to put seed down and just put pre-emergent down a few weeks later? Clearly the best time to seed will be when I do the aeration...

    Thoughts? I really would like input on the type of fertilizer to put when I put the seeds. Should I put something of a "lawn starter" fertilizer, or just continue with the nitrogen only fertilizer?

  • grass1950
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You should wait for input from texasweed, dchall or one of the other warm grass folks. Seems to me that bemuda grass sod (if that is what you have) and bermuda seed don't play well together. They can also tell you if there are any pre-Ms that can be used with warm season grasses.
    You could also google "the bermuda bible" and see if you can find anything in it that helps.

  • guruE6
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wish I could drag texasweed into here, lol.

  • enigma7
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You do not want to apply pre-M and then shortly after core aerate. Core aeration is done BEFORE pre-M is applied. As mentioned by grass1950 a bermuda sodded-lawn (possibly what you have) is not to be seeded upon as they are 2 strains and will make it look awful.

    I think your plans are OK, I'd just change the order a bit and remove the seeding altogether. On 4/27 I'd recommend core aerating the compact areas, top dress with your compost/sand, and apply pre-M. Then on 5/12 apply the fertilizer.

  • guruE6
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Is there reasoning behind this "aerate before pre-m"? I am trying to research and learn a lot about these things, but I have not heard an order of operations comparing these 2 items. Can you elaborate on why this is the case?

    What if I just didn't do pre-M? What if I just did my thing with seeds/sprigs and put some MSMA down at some point to kill the weeds that are still alive. I could still put the pre-m down in the fall, and i can guarantee that it will not affect my grass rehabilitation process.

    Also, if I dont fertilize until 5/12, that will be 6 weeks between fertilizing, and I intend to fertilize once a month this growing season since I didnt fertilize but once last season. Because I was ignorant. Either way, I feel that is too long, and I also have read that fertilizing with the core aeration is a good practice.

    Lastly, what if I were to break up some sod into sprigs and plant them in the holes in the bare areas? This seems like the better idea. I dont know the "Strand" of bermuda currently in my lawn, but I have already placed a few pieces of sod from a local nursery. I hope it wont make things look funny. But does breaking the sod into sprigs sound like a good idea? Or should I seed and just not do pre-m? Would the pre-m put down in early March affect the seed growth this late in the game? It is 2 months later. I would think not...

    THanks for the responses everybody!

  • enigma7
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes. When you apply a pre-M it is essentially creating a soil barrier where any seed is either already coated or will come in contact with soil that has been coated (say if blown in from a neighbor's yard). Think of it like a blanket. Now when you go and pop holes in that blanket you potentially expose new weed seeds that were dormant under the soil (and not in contact with the pre-M), and more importantly you now leave pockets in the lawn that weed seeds could enter from the air. Basically you're partially negating the purpose of the pre-M.

    I think not doing a pre-M would be a very bad idea. Thin areas WITH poa already present (ie producing seed shortly or already) are just asking to be completely taken over.

    Remember that compost IS a fertilizer (in a sense). While not a large dose of nitrogen like a chemical fertilizer, it does provide benefits to the soil through the biological organisms it houses (break down of thatch if present, better environment for the grass by reducing moisture loss, etc.). So no I would not fertilize until 5/12 to attempt to reduce the propagation of poa. But we're seriously talking 2 weeks here. Split the difference and do it next week (5th)!

    As mentioned before seed is not for you so the idea of planting plugs (sprigs) is exactly what you should do, after you aerate the compacted areas, plant the plugs (look up the proper way to prep the ground for plugs), and then apply a thin layer of compost. Then keep those newly planted areas from drying out.