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Weed and Feed?

Posted by stonewallwill 8 (My Page) on
Wed, Apr 2, 08 at 18:29

I laid down a weed and feed for the first time about two weeks ago. I'm noticing some changes but they are minute. I have lots of various weeds that developed over the winter and it seems that only a few are being affected. It was a nice, thick lawn when we moved in this Fall and I'd like to have it back this Spring and Summer. What's my next step and when do I take it?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Weed and Feed?

Need to know the specific product you used.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

There is a universal problem with weed and feed products.

1. The weeds need to be growing well and well fed before the herbicide will work. Weeds suffering from stress do not absorb the herbicide.

2. The herbicide in the weed an feed goes to work quickly and then dissipates quickly.

3. The fertilizer in weed and feed goes to work relatively slowly, and then dissipates.

The problem with the product is the fertilizer needs to work fast (but doesn't) and the herbicide needs to come in and go to work slowly (but doesn't).

The best way, if you want to use chemicals to fertilize and kill weeds, is to fertilize now (which you already did) and then come in 2 weeks later with a spot spray product like weed-b-gone. Then you can spray only the weeds that are still living (sometimes simply feeding the lawn will choke out some of the weeds).


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RE: Weed and Feed?

dchall, I have wondered about the bias against weed and feed fertilizers on these forum, given that they are so common in the market.

I wonder what you think of this: I applied a 1/2 lb./1000 sq. ft synthetic nitrogen fertilizer about a week or two ago to try to deal with some obviously nitrogen-starved spots in my yard. My grass is greening up now, but I also see some immature weeds taking hold. And I happen to have some remnants of Weed and Feed product in the garage. I am thinking about applying that at a rate of 1/2 lb. nitrogen per thousand feet in the next week or two, which will pretty much use it up, and I would be glad to see that happen.

I am thinking this will work because (1) it is obvious to me that my soil is borderline in fertility, so no matter what the general recommendation on fertilizing is I need to add some more nitrogen SOON, and (2) if I apply a weed and feed product at such a rate that I am not worried about fertilizer burn, but also when the weeds are still small and vulnerable, I think most of those weeds will succumb to even the reduced rate of herbicide, like 19 year olds getting carded on a Friday night.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul


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RE: Weed and Feed?

dchall - excellent explanation of the way weed and feed's work and should work. Very well said.

Having said that, how about the effects of a combination product like Dimension 0.10% and fert at 19-3-6? Ordinary weed and feeds fall into the category you succintly mentioned above, but I'm interested in the combination products with Dimension, since Dimension is usually much longer lasting, and is a pre-m as well as a post-m to many weeds? Just asking...


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RE: Weed and Feed?

I used Vigoro Ultra Turf fertilizer with Weedstop. Do you think that this is sufficient as a fertilizer? As for spot spray weed killer; what do you recommend for multiple weeds including CB?


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RE: Weed and Feed?

"I used Vigoro Ultra Turf fertilizer with Weedstop. Do you think that this is sufficient as a fertilizer? As for spot spray weed killer; what do you recommend for multiple weeds including CB?"

I don't know whether that's sufficient as a fertilizer or not. What were the NPK numbers? How many square feet is your lawn? How much of the fertilizer did you apply?

For spot spraying broadleaf weeds, you can usually use something with 2,4 D (Weed B Gone is probably the best known brand name). For weedy grasses, though, WBG won't work, unless they have a new version that targets crabgrass and other weedy grasses. Most weedkillers that will kill the weedy grasses will also kill lawn grasses.

What is CB? I can only think of Citizens Band radio and that's not a weed.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

stonewallwill, regrettably, I cannot answer your question but I wish to use this thread to point up a splendid slide presentation by Dr. Tim R. Murphy of the University of Georgia. I googled 'Tupersan translocates' and then I clicked on 'slide presentations - Families and mode of action'. I was taken to a page which listed 80 slides and I viewed them all.
Please bear with me as I review how I happened to do this.
I could not remember the classification of "Tupersan" and in my quest for this information I read that the product translocates; then on another site, it does not translocate. In trying to reconcile this conflicting information I found the presentation. The matter has been resolved and right at the start of the day, I have learned something new today.
Thanks! Everyone!


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RE: Weed and Feed?

On the topic of weed and feed:

what is the group's opinion of the Scotts turfbuilder with HALTS as a good first feeding? how does the halts stack up to dimension as far as strength and effectiveness?


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RE: Weed and Feed?

I asked the poster what product he used because I wanted to be sure it was what we refer to as weed and feed and not a fertilizer w/ pe-m product. Also wanted to know if he knew the difference between the two. What prompted my question was him applying the product "two weeks ago."

Tim, use Halts by itself. It's still too early to fertilize. If recall right, Dimension is effective a lot longer than Halts, maybe twice as long.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

Sorry bpgreen, I meant CG (crab grass). The numbers on the bag are 30-3-4. My yard is about 25'X45'. I applied the amount recommended on the bag with a broadcast spreader. The instructions suggested that the dispenser should be set on 5.5 To come up with an accurate amount of product that was applied would be impossible at this point.

To answer your question bestlawn, I didn't even know that there IS a difference between weed & feed and fertilizer with pe-m. Essentially, this is the level of ingorance from where my questions originate.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

dchall, I have wondered about the bias against weed and feed fertilizers on these forum, given that they are so common in the market.

The magical miracle of marketing. The weed and feed products appeal to our desire to multi task.

how about the effects of a combination product like Dimension 0.10% and fert at 19-3-6?

My weed control program, the only one that has ever worked for me, is watering infrequently and mowing at the mower's highest setting. From what I read here, the programs works for others, too. Maybe I should add that I did not come up with the watering/mowing program, but as soon as I adopted it and saw the effects, I have become an outspoken advocate. I have been on a corn meal organic program since 2002, and I see fewer and fewer weeds every year. With that in mind, I am more and more out of touch with what is offered in named products or what they do. About the only concern I have with the organic approach is to be sure not to put down too much protein all at once. The problem is not in hurting the soil or grass but the decomposing protein will become sour smelling if there is too much.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

A lawn that is 25x45 is 1125 sq ft. Since the fertilizer was 30% N (the fist number), you would need about 3.75 lbs of the fertilizer. 1125 sq ft is 1.125 thousand sq ft. 1.125 / .3 is 3.75.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean when you say that you applied the amount recommended on the bag, but you can't come up with an accurate amount that was applied.

Do you mean that you set the spreader setting to the number they recommended and spread as much of it on the lawn as that spreader put out? If so, I would recommend taking a different approach in the future. If I use bagged fertilizers and spread them with a spreader, the first thing I do is calculate how much I need. I then pour that much into the spreader (or half of it if it is more than enough for the spreader). I usually spread at a lower setting than recommended and make multiple passes in different directions so I get a more even distribution. I just keep spreading until the amount I calculated needed to be used is gone.

The problem with using the spreader settings is that the amount you put down that way can vary by quite a bit depending on how fast you walk, how far you move over when you turn, etc. If you only use the spreader setting, you have now way to know whether you've applied the right amount or not.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

"A lawn that is 25x45 is 1125 sq ft. Since the fertilizer was 30% N (the fist number), you would need about 3.75 lbs of the fertilizer. 1125 sq ft is 1.125 thousand sq ft. 1.125 / .3 is 3.75"

Is this the normal equation? If so, I'll hang onto it for future use.

"Do you mean that you set the spreader setting to the number they recommended and spread as much of it on the lawn as that spreader put out?"

The instructions were pretty simple...set spreader settings, make straight and even passes, don't over-lap. There was no mention of measured amounts.

BTW, the speed in which I walked did not effect the amount of product that was dispersed; only the distance it was thrown. So, as was recommended, I spread it evenly without over-lapping until the entire yard was covered.

Now, having established that the application of this product is not the suggested manner of attack, how do I :
1) determine if either (or both of) the weeding or fertilizing portion did or did not work and

2) what is the next step that you might recommend if one of the afore mentioned issues should present themselves.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

That's the normal equation. The only change will be that you'll need to substitute the number on the bag for the 30 in the equation.

the fertilizing should cause the grass to turn greener. The weed killer should start killing the weeds. I think the weed killers in those kinds of products first cause the plants to curl and twist before they die, so you may see some of that going on. I haven't used them for a long time, so I don't know how long they usually take to work.


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RE: Weed and Feed?

I fertilized this spring and then put on weed and feed 3 weeks ago, I haven't seen a single weed die or get even remotely sick. How long does it take to get rid of the clover and dandilions?


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RE: Weed and Feed?

Guys, you can find more information on turf fertilizers on Haifa Group

Here is a link that might be useful: turf fertlizers


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