It's 9700 sqft but I think I should round it off to 10000 sqft. I need 30 lbs then for everything, or 10 lbs for each cultivar.

I noticed that you only mentioned to mix the 2. Isn't it supposed to be the 3?

I think she's saying to let Williams mix the two cultivars you are buying from them and you'll have to mix the third with the other two yourself.

Bestlawn, I have Midnight mixed in with my TTTF in NC. How dark does Midnight get on that scale in NC? Thanks.

Try not to get hung up in maximum rates. It's easy to feel the more the better, but that really isn't the standard. Over doing it can inhibit germination and can cause fungus. The 3 lb max is based on establishing a new lawn. The lower recommendation is for overseeding your existing lawn. You can confidently order 25lbs and still keep 3-5 pounds left over for spots you later discover you missed.

Tarheel is right. It's 3 but if you order from Williams, they only have the Midnight II and Bedazzled. They won't have the Diva on hand to add to them, so ask them to mix those two for you. Then, you'll have to add and mix in the Diva yourself since it arrives from elsewhere. My suggestion was to make sure you mix it in really, really well. Very, Very Well. Pour, Pour, Pour back and forth. Shake, Shake, Shake!!! And pour back and fourth some more. And then shake some more. Okay, I'll stop now. LOL

7.7 Tarheel

Bestlawn, hahaha! :D

I'll make sure that it's very well shaken.

I remember you told me yesterday that the stores doesn't carry all seeds. Now I got it. :)

Also, thanks for telling me about the pounds per 1000 sqft. That really helps. ;)

I have a question on the seed mixing. What I've done when seeding two different types of grass is to spread one first, then the other. I figured that assured me of the most even distribution (as long as I spread evenly with both kinds).

Is there any reason not to do it that way? The only thing I can think of is that I was seeding with some pretty large seeds, so I had to make multiple passes even with the spreader wide open. I suppose smaller seeds would make a difference.

BP, my only concern was to decrease probability of error for even distribution. Less calculating, less confusion, and no worry wondering "did I get over there?" It won't matter if he missed a spot. But with two passes or three passes, it will matter a lot.

curious guys, does someone have a pic of how dark green lawn looks like? I know that viewing pictures in computer and taken by cameras are somewhat off. At least, I will have an idea of what it looks like. I'm just excited! :P hehehe...

I would like to interrupt, and I would like not to be rude. I will attempt not to be rude, but, if a label is attached to this post, I'll try for "blunt". I think a "blunt" post is needed here.

I have gone back, because you showed up here two weeks ago, and read every one of your posts. I invite other readers to do the same, by doing a gardenweb search on the username 'v1rtu0s1ty'.....and read every one of the posts, and the follow up questions. I will explain more of the rationale later in this "blunt" post.

For now, let's look at just the facts. In a minute, we'll make some assumptions, but for this paragraph, just the facts.

1. You have a brand new house. With a brand new lawn. Relatively small, as it's a typical suburban lot. And quite nice looking. The pics you posted show this. But the facts are, you're not tending a three-acre rural parcel, you can handle this lot quite nicely, with a push rotary spreader, or a hand-held whirley spreader, from Home Depot. Both of these types of spreaders have their uses.

2. You have bluegrass sod. New sod, last year. That means you have Merion bluegrass, which is a wonderful lawn. That's what's sold in your area. It ain't cheap stuff. It surely is not a ripoff, such as 'contractor's mix' which is generally an annual rye. NO. You have a quality bluegrass sod, and in northern Illinois, it's Merion.

3. You have darn near killed that sod, last fall. At 12 midnite (the very moment that the sod got delivered to your house) that Cinderella sod has been dragged from it's carriage, stripped of it's glass slippers, had it's fine gown ripped off, and has been tossed next to the fireplace wearing only second-hand rags for clothes. More or less.

Let's examine that: that sod was seeded, sprouted, and received REGULAR (every two weeks) half-doses of a low-nitrogen fertilizer, like Milorganite. Milorganite won't burn the lawn, should you happen to put too much down. Milorganite also has iron, which turns the lawn dark green. It also has organic material, which is good for the modest thatch layer that started, and helped support friendly bacteria and enzymes, which all lawns need. Every two weeks: a half application. That lawn couldn't HELP ITSELF. It just couldn't help itself. It had to GROW, it had to shoot rhizones out, it had to spread, it had to (it just HAD TO) TURN DARK GREEN, and stay healthy. And out-compete any stray weed seed that happened along. What you got delivered was thick, dark green, healthy turf that had been regularly watered, and was, in fact, STILL MOIST when it was dropped off at your house. Not soaking, but moist. The sod layers had wet hands when they finished your job. They did. Ask anyone who has laid sod. Wet hands.

That grass was grown on PEAT. Not dirt. Peat. Because it's easy to harvest with a machine, that way. Peat will shrink, when it drys out, which is bad enough, but here's the important part: PEAT WILL ROT AWAY, and when peat rots away, it's gone. That's part of the overall plan (it's a good overall plan) but the overall plan is generally NOT explained to homeowners such as yourself, which is a shame.
That peat will be gone in three years. And that peat will get a little less, each year, until it's gone. It will rot away (I'm sorry, I meant to say "naturally decompose".)

Let's prove this, by an example: take three bath towels, and fold each three times. You now have smaller area, with a nice folded towel, about an inch thick, just like in the Downey commercials. Put the towels on top of each other. You now have a three inch tall stack of towels, with each towel being about an inch thick, but the total stack is (just like in your closet) about three inches tall. Put a dinner plate flat on top of the towel stack. Nudge that plate with your finger, and the plate will jiggle, as the towels flex a little. That's your sod. The grass is way up there, and there's a lot of peat underneath. It will jiggle, it will move.

Take away one towel. Put the plate on a stack of two towels. Jiggle the plate. It will move less. Less flex. That's your grass, after one year. Some of the peat has gone away. Take away another towel. Jiggle again: it moves less, if at all. That's your grass, after two years, as more peat has gone away. Take away the last towel. Nudge the plate: it won't move. That's your grass, after all the peat is gone, and the roots have anchored themselves in just the topsoil. The peat goes away, but the topsoil doesn't.

In real life, the strips of sod will shrink, if they're allowed to dry out. That creates one inch gaps, but they're not serious, nor permanent. The grass will spread out (can we get some food over here? Some food?) if it's fed, and if it's healthy. As we know, the height difference doesn't matter, as the peat is going to rot (I'm sorry, I meant to say "naturally decompose"), but it's not a fast, two-week process. But the peat will be gone.

Your grass needs to be fed as if it were still on a sod farm. Go buy some Milorganite (you can get it at Lowes) and give that lawn a light shot, with the hand held whirley spreader, every two weeks, from now to the fourth of July. You will have a deep, dark green healthy lawn. You will be proud of it. But nothing like that happened to your sod last fall. It literally went from feast to famine, as soon as it got to your house. And the peat strips shrunk: so it goes. Not enough moisture. The shrinkage is not permanent. The gaps will disappear (so will the peat). If you treat that sod like it's on a sod farm, that sod will look like it's on a sod farm. Otherwise, not.

Now, for some assumptions:

1. You'd like to go 'organic'........cool. But not this year. You need Milorganite, you surely do not need Scotts, nor Lesco, as the big-number fertilizers may burn the lawn. Milorganite won't. You need a regular, every-so-often, release of nitrogen to the lawn, rather than a BIG MOMMA dose of nitrogen to the lawn. The organic programs are perfect for this, and they provide a regular dose of nitrogen as the organic grains rot, and nothing too heavy. But this year, we've got some catching up to do. Organic soon. But not now.

2. You'd like to 'replace' the lawn you have with exotic cultivars. There's just no need. You have a fine, quality lawn there, but the lawn hasn't been treated the way it's used to being treated.

3. Save the money. If you want to spend a few bucks, and buy a small package of Midnite, or whatever, go ahead, walk around, and spread the seed. But treat that seed like a sod farm treats seed, or you're just going to get more of the same. Which is what we're trying to fix, isn't it? Throw the money, instead, into the kid's college fund. Believe me, you're going to need that college fund.

I was suspicious at first that you were not serious with your questions. Perhaps you're not, and I am a fool. In hopes that you are just an enthusiastic homeowner, who would like to have a fine lawn, I've been typing for a long time.

Go have a talk with your sod. Ask the sod, much as you would a teenager, prior to a custody battle, "Would you rather live with me, or would you rather be back at the sod farm?"

Let that answer guide your conduct from here on out.

plhies, I would like to apologize to you especially to the administrators of this forum. I used up a lot of space by posting to much questions.

but i also would like to thank you philes very much because I've learned a lot from your post. Since it's my first time to own a new lawn, I didn't know most of the things you've mentioned. I've been wondering why there are many gaps in my lawn especially at the back. I didn't know about the shrinking until you explained it. However, like what I said earlier, I didn't know how to take care of new sod. I've already done damage to it last November by putting vigoro winterizer. If I was agressive last year, I could have asked to this forum and you could have helped me. But it's too late.

This March, I applied Vigoro Weed&Feed. Again, I didn't know until you mentioned to your post that I don't need them. You also mentioned about Organic. I'm sorry, but your reply is too late. I have already applied corn gluten meal last April 5.

You were the first one to say to apply Milorganite. It's the first time in my entire life to hear about it. I will do a google search later.

Apology again, I'm just trying to do my best to learn what my lawn needs.

Lastly, I am very thankful that you have been reading all my post. Again, I'm sorry if I annoyed you so much.

You did not 'damage' the lawn by applying Vigoro. Vigoro is a fine product. But you can't add Vigoro every two or three weeks, because it's a big-number fertilizer. The package will say 18-3-5, or 22-4-4, and you see how that first number is big? More than twelve? Milorganite is 6-2-0, you notice how the first number, 6, is quite small? That's a mild form of nitrogen. That's what your lawn needs now. Because you're going to be adding it every two weeks, in a very light sprinkling, with that hand-held whirley spreader. You can't do that with a big-number fertilizer, as that will burn the lawn.

But your vigoro did no harm. The problem the sod has is that it's used to a regular, every two weeks, jolt of mild nitrogen, and some iron. Iron turns the grass dark green. Your spring application of fertilizer did no harm either. The problem is that the nitrogen came in one BIG MOMMA jolt of nitrogen, and the sod has had nothing since.

Actually, your putting down the corn gluten meal was perfect: that is an organic, and it will gently release nitrogen, as it rots. It's not fast: it's not meant to be fast. It's a controlled release of mild nitrogen, which is perfect.

But don't treat new sod with 'just one' jolt of nitrogen in the spring, nor 'just one' jolt of the gluten meal, and then the sod just sits there for the rest of the season. No, it needs that gentle (not big-number) release of nitrogen frequently. About every two weeks, lightly, not a big dose.

Corn gluten meal, a light dose, every two weeks, would be fine, but it doesn't have the iron that the sod needs right now, to look it's best. But if you have some CGM left over, use that, it's fine. But when that runs out, switch to Milorganite, which adds the iron. Light feeding of either of 'em, every two weeks. Half an hour, tops.

And no need to apologize. You certainly did not 'annoy' me, nor the administrators of this site, and everyone here will do their best to help you with your questions. But I worry that you were getting off on the wrong track. Solving a problem that doesn't need solving, which wastes money and effort, and not solving a problem (regular, light, feeding, with iron) which is easily remedied.

Your lawn will say what Red Green says, on television...."We're all rooting for ya' ".

philes, I have another question. I have an area that is just plain dirt. It had sod like the others before. When everyone was greening, that part was still brown. I waited for more weeks and it didn't turn green. I lifted the sod and found out that its root never made it to the dirt. I lifted about 40 sqft of sod about 2 or 3 weeks ago because I think, it's really dead. Looking at the bottom side of the sod, it was plain peat, I didn't see any roots coming out.

You mentioned earlier that the type of grass that was used in my lawn was Merion. I asked the builder, and builder ask the gardener and they just told me it was KGB and didn't know what cultivar it was.

The empty damaged space was the reason for me to try a different cultivar. I forgot, I also have damaged on the west and south side too but they're small.

Thanks again for the help.

philes21, I don't understand you making this guy feel inept in his efforts to seek help. And, I really don't understand glorifying Merion so. The way you describe Merion Kentucky Bluegrass as a quality bluegrass sod I would think applies to all KBG. But then, I am partial and perhaps you are, too. My guess is it isn't Merion, as it has been out of production for five years or more. Okay, let's say this sod farm still has some. In that case, let's hope his is not Merion at all, being a 70 year old cultivar and not improved in 60 years. With a few of Merion's susceptibilities being necrotic ring spot, stripe smut, and fusarium blight, it cannot be compared to recently developed cultivars and varieties that were bred or improved for better disease resistance and turf quality. Then, you suggested adding Midnight to it, thereby guaranteeing occurances of powdery mildew every August/September since both Merion and Midnight are particularly susceptible. In this respect alone, v1rtu0s1ty was right in wanting to add other cultivars to his sod even if he did not realize any of this to be a very good reason. The way he lamented his suspicion of his lawn being a contractor's mix was taken by me as simply not the best or not the most desirable varieties available, as is customary of most sod farms. Notwithstanding his lack of knowledge concerning the specific definition of the term, I knew what he meant and did/do not disagree. A monostand of any KBG is not recommended. Moreover, Merion never was great in color ratings, so v1rtu0s1ty (wish we had a name to call you by) was right again in wanting to improve/darken the color of his lawn. Yes, Milorganite works wonders and is my own favorite and preferred fertilizer, but is it really fair to say Milorganite and its iron content can do what breeding could not?

I had sod laid myself and loved my lawn after applying no other fertilizer except Milorganite. It was lush and the most beautiful for literally miles around. Still, I wanted it darker just like v1rtu0s1ty wants darker grass blades. After incorporating Award (Midnight) and Boutique, both of which are very dark, in amazement I could not believe the vast color difference. And I cannot describe my excitement to peer out my door or window every morning just to behold the dark blue/green spread of carpet that was my lawn. There is nothing wrong with him wanting the same.

v1rtu0s1ty, there is no doubt in my mind you are now totally confused.

v1rtu0s1ty, there is no doubt in my mind you are now totally confused.

Yes especially with the fertilizers. It's because, I just bought a 200 lbs of corn meal(not CGM) last week which I'm planning to put mid or late May. Also, I bought some components to make my own homebrew aerated compost tea(ACT). Like what I've mentioned in other post, I still have about 20 to 30% of dried blades. And I suspected that the 2 Vigoro I applied killed the beneficial organisms which makes the "decomposting of dried blades and thatch" very slow. That's how I understood Elaine Ingham's documents in Soil Food Web and our other forum. I might have killed majority of the beneficial organisms. I'm hoping that when I apply ACT, it will help the lawn as I've read from other people's experience on it.

Now, going back to Milorganite. I'm tempted to buy it but have already spent dollars on corn meal and ACT. I can't decide if I should do it. I don't know how much it cost in Lowes.

v1rtu0s1ty (wish we had a name to call you by)

I don't see other posters mention their name too. So, I had an impression that it was a practice.

You can call me Ron.

You want to care for your lawn organically, there is nothing wrong with that either. Philes21 was not wrong in his nitrogen estimations. Sod farms always over fertilize. The grass needs it afterall because it's going to be cut away from the soil and planted elsewhere and has to be able to survive the transition. That doesn't mean it won't adapt. And after everything you have read about organic methods of lawn care, does it really sound as though it cannot sustain a new lawn? There is no point in spending more money on Milorganite (some say it is organic, some say it has metals, others say it doesn't) when you've already set another course. What you're planning sounds great. Carry through with your plan for corn meal, compost tea, and overseed in the fall. You have to understand that corn meal serves as a light fertilizer (in addition to it's natural fungicidal properties) and is not adequate by itself. You need to double or even triple the recommended amount. Additionally, there are other organic sources like alfalfa (high in nitrogen), soy bean meal, fish hydrolysate. I'll see if I can find my table for the ones that supply the most nitrogen. Just don't do anything mechanical like core aerating or power raking. The lawn is too young for that.

As far as learning organic methods, you will learn in time what to take literally and sometimes not to try to envision everything you read. For example, you have done no real harm to the lawn and organisms with the Vigoro. Although you didn't necessarily feed the soil food web, you didn't kill it off either. In the very least, you and they have many more opportunities since now you're moving into caring for the soil, and thereby the lawn, in a completely different way - with them in mind. And as far as the decomposition of the grass blades being "very slow," there is no such thing. Grass is 70% water, it will decompose in time, which is very fast whether you care for your lawn organically or with Scott's or Vigoro or whatever. "Very slow" is hardly calculable in our terms of reference where that is concerned and can mean the difference of a few hours or one day. If you have so much that you can see, I suspect you're not mowing properly as in cutting too much off at a time or your mower blades need sharpening. Never remove more than 1/3 the grass blade when mowing. If you let it grow too tall and want to get it back down to 3 inches, mow off 1/3 and then mow another 1/3 a few days later.

Most posters have monikers that can be pronounced though LOL. Yours is like a computer-applied translation. It's hard to relate to and feel I'm communicating with a real person. You can call me Mallory.

Yeah, alfalfa is on my list. I have already contacted the vendors. I will apply it 1st week of August, then overseed late August but not beyond the first week of September. During that time, it's warm in morning but cooler in the evening which is perfect for germination. And a month after overseeding, I will apply SBM.

Today, I spoke with one of the crew in StarBucks and she told me to just swing by and get a bag of coffee ground and that is for free. WOOHOO!!!

For the mowing, I really haven't mowed yet since the blades are still low. It's just beginning to grow well especially it rained for 2 days. I'll wait another 3 to 4 weeks before I mow. About the cutting, I'm aware the I should put the setting to the highest.

I'll see if I can find my table for the ones that supply the most nitrogen. Just don't do anything mechanical like core aerating or power raking. The lawn is too young for that.
Sure please. And yes, I won't be doing any core aeration this year.

Regarding my handle, you are correct that it's a bit computer translated. It's because I'm in the computer field. I deal a lot of SQL databases, firewalls, security and networking. This is the reason I wanted that name. Hehehe. Actually, it's one of Russell Crowe's old movie too.

Mallory, thanks for helping me out so much! ;)

Ron

Ron--I don't think you've posted an inordinate number of questions. You're getting started and want to do it right. That makes sense.

I also think it makes sense to overseed with grasses you want in a lawn of grasses you find less desirable. I'm doing the same thing, but completely differently. I'm overseeding with native grasses, hoping they'll crowd out the KBG. In your case, you want the darker, more disease resistant KBG to crowd out the stuff you started with.

If that Starbucks is convenient to you, and you can get enough grounds, you may be able to get by without buying any other fertilizer. Now that there's a nearby Starbucks, that's about all my lawn gets. I usually do one late fall application of 1 lb N per 1k sq ft (may or may not be organic), but the only other fertilizer is the coffee grounds.

I have one more quibble with the advice Philes gave. He said that you shouldn't use fertilizers with a first number bigger than 12. The issue isn't what that first number is. The issue is how much you apply. The first number is the percentage of N in the fertilizer. It doesn't matter what that number is if you apply it correctly. If you use a fertilizer that is 10-x-x and apply 10 lbs per 1000 sq ft, you're applying 1 lb of actual n per 1k sq ft. If you apply 5 lbs of 20-x-x, you're getting the same 1 lb. The same holds true if you apply 20 lbs of 5-x-x, and so on.

v1rtu0s1ty,

I'm with Bestlawn on the selection of KBG cultivars.

Two years ago, at her suggestion, I renovated my front lawn with Midnight II, Moonlight and Bedazzled. My next door neighbor with an older-cultivar type KBG lawn thought I was nuts.

Below you can see my yard (on the left) next to his (Judge for yourself):

{{gwi:81381}}

I should add that we both cut at the grass at 3-inches and he does essentially the same fertilization routine.

There are actually two questions, running through this thread, and I only really attempted to answer one of them. I suppose Ron could give us the best answer to which, or both, questions need answering this year.

1. Can I improve or renovate my lawn, so it looks good?

Of course he can. You can do that any of three or four different ways.

2. Do I need to?

He may very well not. My focus was on the fact that the guy has a brand new yard of sod. He didn't treat it very well, last year, and that may have something to do with how it looks today. It's not unusual that he didn't do it perfectly, I think we all know that most new homeowners don't. This group, and the "usual suspects" around here (and I don't doubt for a minute, that Ron is going to be more than gracious about sharing his experience, and his expertise, in subject areas that have worked for him) are always willing to help out, to provide tips, pointers, and a huge amount of education, even when we don't always agree with each other.

Let me apply yet another troublesome metaphor: Does Ron need to trade up from the Corvette to the Ferarri? He's paid some serious money for what he's got now. But yes, the top of the line is truly the top of the line. But of course, there's more money, more maintenance, etc.

My point was (and perhaps I read the question wrong...) "Are you serious? You've got a Corvette. Do you know what that machine can DO? If you treat it right?"

The guy spent some serious money. He got a serious lawn. That serious lawn is sitting there, all around his home. Just waiting. Waiting for what? Ron doesn't yet know. (no offense. And surely, we're all going to fix that, aren't we? You betcha.) But I took the question as 'should I trade up to the Ferarri?'....and I answered 'well, you really don't need to. Do you know what you have there?'

Philes has a valid point. It would be worth it to see if proper lawn practices can turn the lawn into something stellar. Overseeding is not without it's downsides. Turf Toes has a killer lawn and the contrast is obvious. However, a lot of my neighbors take very good care of their lawns and probably don't have elite pedigree but the results can be very impressive. Why not give the sod a chance?

Yep, I understand philes point. Now, how can we be so sure that what I have is a Merion cultivar? Remember, I have damaged areas now that are just plain dirt. I took out the 40 sqft dead sod. That's only in one of the corners. I have 2 more sides that are affected but only 20 sqft.

I might be wrong of what I'm going say. If I just apply Merion to the damaged part, will the gradiency of turf color won't be obvious? This was the reason I wanted to overseed everything. It will be uniform.

turf toes, that is night and day!!!!!!! You didn't mention though if you overseed. How did you do it?

I think subywu's point is well taken. Since this isn't the best time to overseed, he should try to make the best of the lawn his has, until this fall. But if, come this fall, those efforts don't provide him with the lawn he really seeks, I think he should follow Bestlawn's suggestion.

For what it is worth, he asked for help on picking different KBG grass types. I think Bestlawn did an outstanding job answering that question. I still believe though that if he truly wants a great lawn, he'd be better off overseeding with better KGB cultivars.

v1rtu0s1ty,

Sorry. I didn't see your last question. What I did was a bit drastic. But I completely rounded up the front yard and then overseeded with Midnight II, Moonlight and Bedazzled. I know that sounds extreme. But there are several other folks who have done the same thing. (I think Subywe did it the same time I did).

The advantage to doing it that you don't have to fight the old lawn to get the elite cultivar seeds established.

I'm not suggesting that you follow that routine. But for me, it was really the way to go, especially considering that I had some rye grass in the old lawn (which some studies suggest is alleopathic to other types of grass seedlings)

OK, makes sense now.

Renovation = kill off old lawn and reseed. Turf Toes' lawn is completely elite cultivars. But that doesn't mean you can slack off with the lawn care. I'm sure Turf Toes is very meticulous to get the lawn like that. Kudos.

I still believe though that if he truly wants a great lawn, he'd be better off overseeding with better KGB cultivars.

My heart really wants this route! {{gwi:90215}}

But I'm just afraid that once I get my existing lawn to the healthy state, and assuming I'm able to reduce 95% of the thatch, I'm afraid that the seeds I'm going to spread won't touch the soil.

Where to begin? Please Lord, give me patience.

In another thread back on March 28-31, Virtuosity, I gave you some recommendations on cultivars, where to get them, and told you how much seed to sow per unit area. I have children, so I'm used to my advice being ignored. I still stand by those recommendations, but if you want to play with blends of various cultivars, go enjoy yourself, but you don't have to.

Your current lawn is not Merion. As Bestlawn mentioned, that disease-ridden, water-hungry variety is an antique, and was superceded by better cultivars a long time ago. None of us has any idea what cultivars are in your current sod. They might be top-notch, and with proper cultural practices could be turned into great turf. Then again, they might be mediocre types, and will require constant effort to maintain a decent lawn.

The suggested plan of providing some TLC to your current lawn this season is probably a good one. It may work out fine, and you'll save yourself some money and a lot of effort.

On the other hand, if you really want a primo lawn that must have certain attributes, then a complete renovation in August, a la Turf Toes, would be the way to go. Back in March you said you wanted really dark green, fine texture, and something that you could mow at a relatively low height-of-cut. I suggested any of Midnight II, NuDestiny, or Blue Velvet (I'd also lump in Norht Star if you are prepared to provide really good care--its potential in the Upper Midwest is outstanding). I've been a big fan of Moonlight for several years and consider it the best all-around KBG cultivar for HOME LAWNS. Bedazzled has proven to perform outstandingly well in the Upper Midwest also, but it is not as dark as all the above, and it is not really fine-textured, but neither is Moonlight. I guess it depends on how important various attributes are to you.

Again, back in March, you described your sun-shade situation, and it sounded like you have mostly sunny conditions. Given that, I agree with Suby, don't sweat a little powdery mildew in Spring or Fall cloudy spells. Oh, yeah, forget the cornmeal. What a pile.

Whew, I feel better now. Go ahead and roast me, folks.

A.J.

Back in March you said you wanted really dark green, fine texture, and something that you could mow at a relatively low height-of-cut

You are exactly correct! But you didn't take into account where I was coming from. I forgot where I mentioned that I'm a newbie in grass and lawn care. So, I thought that having a low height grass is the proper maintenance. But after learning the proper way of taking care of lawns, I shied away from low height grass.

I don't want to do the complete tear up route. But I'm confident that overseeding it on existing lawn will work. I might be wrong because I have not tried it yet.

Your current lawn is not Merion.

I didn't say it was Merion. I just followed what philes said in the earlier post. If you read that whole post when I mentioned it, it is totally of different context.

Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, BOB!!!
That is soooo garrrgeous!

Top of the line is certainly not more maintenance, but less maintenance. And, I well understood the rest of your points. I stress again, "The way you describe Merion Kentucky Bluegrass as a quality bluegrass sod I would think applies to all KBG. But then, I am partial and perhaps you are, too." What you are thinking is his lawn is not to be glorified for any more reason than the fact that it is Kentucky Bluegrass. Also, I answered the reason(s) for overseeding in addition to his own reason being a valid one, and no sooner than I spoke did we learn of this, proving my point precisely. Where Ron wanted to change to a darker green lawn is turf toes' perfect example. His neighbor's grass is a beautiful color, but there's a biiiig difference in emerald green (nonetheless a lush lawn) and the dark blue/green.

Ron, I was saying in your other thread I linked to that we can discuss the overseeding in the fall. Your seeds reaching the soil is not a worry and at that time, we can explore different options for you to choose the method that suits you best.

I didn't realize you and AJ discussed other cultivars at another time. He is my KBG guru, and I never hesitate to let that be known, my two-year absence notwithstanding of course. Notably, I always rely on NTEP trials for ratings and comparisons, while AJ often sees the results for himself, and he has much more experience than I do. My effort is to determine and suggest the cultivars that perform best in specific areas. Still, I don't argue with his points and suggestions and know them to be accurate. If I may just submit that I wouldn't advise North Star since it's another powdery mildew guarantee.

I cannot agree with opinions that powdery mildew is harmless. Yes, it often goes away on its own and normally does not cause damage. But if left untreated, it will do considerable damage, which I have seen and so has this board seen in the past. If there is potential for damage, why would any manager/homeowner want to risk constant recurrences? It just makes sense to try to avoid the disease (as with any other) with cultivars that are resistant and lower the risk.

Incidentally Ron, you do not have thatch. The grass is too young for that, too. That isn't to say you don't any, but there would be no more than is healthy. There is such a thing as a healthy amount of thatch, so there should always be some. You may have missed my response when I said the grass greens from the middle point. Closer to the ground, the grass blades are yellow/brown, not green. Once you sow the newer cultivars, you'll find them to have less brown area, but for now you're fine in the thatch department.

From AJ's remark, I take it someone has proven corn meal not to be effective on powdery mildew? Do I understand that right? There was a guy here before who posted pictures of PM on his grass. David suggested the corn meal and I'm pretty sure he used it and said it worked. I can't remember his name, but if anyone knows who I'm talking about he later posted the pics on his member page, along with the pics of his lawn, all the grains he used, and his little girl in her kiddie pool. Can anyone think of his name?

my blades, just an fyi.

I had a question earlier but looks like it was not answered or I might have missed it. I was wondering why my turf blades are still short especially in the middle part of my lawn and at the back. On the sides, they're long now.

Also, another forum told me that I might not have enough bacteria or beneficial organisms to eat those dead blades.

Oh my starrrrs! You have thatch. But, it is not a natural accumulation. For some reason the grass is dying. Though I don't see a lot of evidence of a lawn disease, take some of that to your local extension office to be tested anyway and have the soil tested, too. Something is causing chlorosis and the grass isn't standing erect like it should. Can't remember the disease that can cause to be decumbent but won't venture a guess at it anyhow.

That it dies off like this concerns me.
{{gwi:90216}}

{{gwi:90217}}


oh no! Where and how do I contact my local extension? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with it. Did you mean our village department?

Hopefully, when I apply ACT 2 or 3 weeks from now, it will kill this bad fungi/bacteria.

No. Ladies, and gentlemen. No.

We have now moved up to about 50 responses to the first question in this thread. This is not the only thread. There are about four that are current, and there have been about ten. Each seems to present its own 'open ended' question.

Grass? Tell me all about it.
Organic? Tell me all about it.
Milorganite? Tell me all about it.
And now? A county extension office? Tell me all about it.

No.

This is a troll. This is an attempt at humor, in my opinion. We are the joke.

You heard it here first.

Of course it will be protested. Sincerely?
Do a search on the username. Read every single post. Every one. Am I wrong, or are all the questions open ended, and an invitation for the responder to create a college curricula, oh, and then, open-ended followup.

No. I am done with this thread. Right, wrong, or indifferent, my vote is "troll".

Ok guys, I think I've asked enough. As philes mentioned, it's a troll. I'm sorry if your narrow thinking is like that. Folks, please don't answer to this post anymore.

philes,

You are the type of person that makes people go away and stop from asking question which can make people's path miserable. I'm sorry, you can't answer anymore since you are done with this thread.

I don't know how this post of mine became a bait. What a thinking. LOL!!!

All, thank you very much for your help.

Ron

oh philes, and also, the problem with me is that English isn't my native tongue and greenjeans can prove that. I met him personally. This is the reason why I ask so many questions over and over until I grasp.

Thanks everyone! All your help will be treasured! :)

and lastly, hehehe, I don't know why it's a problem if we are getting past 50 posts! In our Home Theater Forum at avsforum.com, we don't just get 50 posts, some threads can reach more 100 posts and people who wants to learn more are very happy. Which in return, they share too.

This is an example post from someone. It's not 50 posts. It's not 100 posts. Not 500 but 985 posts. And that is still small. I know other people there with posts more than 3200+ and that is from Sandman's,
and 3193 from Blazing Ridge. And even up to that amount, they are still helpful and still increasing. People just keep on asking and other people just answers without hesitation.

I'm sorry guys, I just felt bad with philes' attitude. I know I became very annoying too due to my questions that it was like a child asking.

Anyways, thanks for everyone's help again.

{{gwi:90218}}

There used to be a limit of 100 posts here. Or was it 99? I'm not sure what the limit is now, but it's more than 100.

I don't need to do a search on the user name. I've read all the posts all along, and have responded to many of them. I'm sure most of the people who have responded have been reading all along.

Your local extension office is probably affiliated with UIUC. Here is a link to their "find an office" page.

If you hadn't told me that English isn't your first language, I would not have picked up on that (and I used to teach ESL).

I don't mind the multiple threads. In fact, I find it appropriate to post a new thread when the question is a different question. I prefer that to a thread that starts with one question and then fragments into many others.

In response to Philes's post with the car analogy, I would say that the problem wasn't that people misunderstood your first post, but that they understood it very well. Ron wants a better looking lawn. His current KBG lawn is stressed, disease prone, and doing poorly. He's taking steps to make it better now, and planning for the future at the same time. So he wants to trade in a Chevette for a Ferrari. Who can blame him?

I never viewed Ron's many questions as trolling. I thought he was somebody new to lawn care, with lots of questions, trying to make sure he did things right.

I'd much prefer seeing somebody post 5 (or 10 or 20 or 50) questions before starting a major lawn project than to see somebody post something along the lines of "I just killed my lawn and planted these amazing zoysia plugs I saw advertised in the paper as miracle grass. It has been really warm the past few weeks (highs in the 50s and lows in the upper 30s), but my lawn is still brown. Please help."

Heeeyyy, nobody tells me what to do LOL.

Each state has a university dedicated to the study of agricultural science. Their job, among many other things, is to help you with precisely the same purpose this forum serves. Here is the University of Illinois Cooperative Extension Service. Under "Publications" you will find answers to practically every question you may have about your lawn, from seasonal maintenance to identifying and addressing problems. They also have testing labs for soil and plants, so they can tell you about the condition of your soil and can identify turfgrasses and diseases. Here is a link to locate the local office nearest you. There is likely one not far away to take those samples to be tested. I'd like to know and it would behoove you to know if there is a disease that has colonized in the soil. There will be a testing fee but that is normally minimal though it varies from state to state. Also check the lab near you beforehand to learn how to take the samples and what supplies you need.

And don't stop posting here for whatever concerns you. This board has always been happy to help. Nothing is going to change that. If I don't see you posting soon, I surely do expect to see you in the fall.

We have a date. Remember?

v1rtu0s1ty,

Keep posting. I don't think you've been insincere with us. No offense to philes. I think he's been a good contributor here. But I just think he's misread this situation.

I've been reading your posts. I have just had the sense that you are a bit confused about what to do but very excited to improve your lawn.

v1rtu0s1ty, you have to understand that in the past, we have had troll postings on this board and I think philes just assumed that yours was one too.

Ron, are you still with us?

philes and everyone with any doubts I assure all of you that Ron is not a troll. He's been to my house and I've shook hands with the man. I know a troll when I see and especially when I meet one. He's a good guy with a lot to learn and is brave enough to ask all the right questions. Many questions that I wish I'd thought to have asked two years ago.

Bestlawn I think you're thinking of Kknight that did the cornmeal test on his lawn. He's got TTTF but powdery mildew is still powdery mildew. Do you still talk to George? I know he's pretty busy right now but I'm sure he's lurking somewhere.

Turftoes, your lawn looks FANTASTIC!! ; )

Greenjeans

Greenjeans, that's good enough for me.

My apologies to Ron. I hope he reads this. I'm sorry I made the accusation. What I thought at the time was laid out before, and I'm wrong. I'm sorry I made the post that I did, and I'm learning, again, that some times I'm not as smart as I'd like to be.

GJ, if you have his email addy, let me know, and I'll make arrangements to get it from you, and write to him directly.

Nope, not KK.
Yes, I emailed him a few days ago and we have communicated several times. He's very busy remodeling his house and several other things.

The guy I'm thinking about lives in Texas I'm pretty sure.

philes21, I meant to add it was really nice of you to apologize.

Hi philes, yep, I'm sorry for my words too. :D

I want bermuda grass now. Hahaha! kidding....

Thank you Ron.

Bestlawn, could it be DCHall you're thinking of? He knows quite a bit about the organics, and seems to be a fan of them.

LOL Nope, not David either.
But I do think maybe this guy was also in San Antonio like David.

Greenjeans,

Thanks for the compliment! I should give credit to all the kind folks who patiently answered many of my clueless questions two years ago (bestlawn, AJ, Bill, etc)

I couldn't have done it at all without their encouragement and advice.

Todd in Texas
That's who I was trying to think of. I don't find any old posts from him to get to his member page. It was he who had powdery mildew and used corn meal upon David's suggestion.