Very few suppliers, and very expensive.Try searching for TifGrand. A list of current distributors is at
http://www.tifgrand.com/tggrowerstg2.htm

I never heard of it. That doesn't surprise me though. Sometimes I'm the last one to hear about new stuff. It sounds great though. I hope it actually works good in the shade.

Here's more information on ST-5. Click the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: ST-5

I've never heard of it. Is this grass for real? Impressive!

Do you have it or plan on getting it? You'd make a lot of money on it! Some neighbors' trees are big enough where bermuda grass are starting to thin out. They apparently don't realize that it's not shade tolerant so they put pieces around trees in hope of having lawn back...

Lou it is real. It is called TifGrand from UGA. Problem is it is extremely expensive. Pallets are going for $1000, and 72 plug flats for $90. There is only a dozen or so sod farms and 1 nursery around the country to buy it from.

I looked into earlier this year for a license and royalties. License is about 40 times higher than Tifway (aka 419) and royalties are astronomical. For every pallet (500/ft2) I would sell you, I would have to pay UGA $500.

Give it a decade or so.

TW, I was looking at the reports, and it seems that TifGrand is just slightly better than Celebration, or does half a point in rating make a much bigger difference than what I'm thinking.

Also, how would you say it compares to SA in terms of shade tolerance?

DW a half point is not a lot on a 0-9 scale. Are you saying a .5 point difference in shade tolerance?

Really cannot answer the TG vs SA question. I don't have any experience or know squat about TifGrand other than UGA is operating a Cartel racket.

"DW a half point is not a lot on a 0-9 scale. Are you saying a .5 point difference in shade tolerance?"

I was refering to this ad that they are pushing.

http://www.tifgrand.com/rev%20TIFGRAND%20VS%20CELEBRATION%20AD.pdf

Seems to me that TifGrand is only slightly better than Celebration being that it's only a half point higher in most of the category that they're touting. If that's the case, then it's just not worth to try TifGrand when you can get Celebration around here for about $125/pallet.

Note in the pdf how they label Celebration as "common bermudagrass." It's a hybrid, right? Anything to make a buck I guess.

Any improvement in shade tolerance is worth a lot but maybe not that much. Prices will drop though and eventually I'd like to get some and try it.

TW - I was referring its shade tolerance. I'm kinda skeptical about it. 1000 dollars a pallet is a lot. Who'd buy them? Anyway if it's really that shade tolerant, it's a big winner for homeowners wishing to keep bermuda rather than convert to st aug when there's not enough sun anymore.

lou midlothian tx - You are right to be skeptical. TifGrand is not selling for anywhere near $1000/pal. Not even half that. Not even close to a quarter that. Not even the foundation pallets sell for $1000! And you are correct that a large homeowner market exists, especially for people whose trees have matured and now shade their lawns.

drwrecktor - Celebration is a common Bermudagrass, originally from Australia - it is neither a hybrid nor a patented variety. TifGrand is a sterile triploid hybrid, patented (PP21017)and grown only as certified sod. The LSD in the Clemson 2007 study referred to is 0.05 or 5%. There have been no direct trials for shade tolerance of TifGrand against St. Augustine, that I know of (if anybody has one I'd love to get the reference), but, for one, TIfGrand will grow in the transition zone and St. Augustine will not.

texas-weed - Tifway(419) was an open release in 1959:there are no royalties and no license requirements and it is not grown as a certified variety. (Y'all have probably noticed that already over the years, lots of different 419's out there.) TifGrand will only be grown as certified sod and royalites will need to be paid: Dr Hanna and UGA spent over ten years developing and extensively trialing and evaluating the variety before releasing it in 2009. TifGrand is the culmination of over 28.000 crosses and see, for example, the 2002 NTEP Bermudagrass Test (available here - http://www.ntep.org/reports/bg02/bg02_07-10f/bg02_07-10f.htm) But the royalties are not even half of what you've posted here, not even close to a quarter.

rdaystrom- TifGrand not only has exceptional shade tolerance, but it requires significantly less fertilizer and water than other Bermuda's and gives you the benefit of a uniform, consistent certified sod and an attactive monoculture lawn - a little more at installation, maybe, but a lot less in maintenance.

Here is a link that might be useful: TifGrand-the world's first sterile hybrid Bermuda for shade!

Pike Creek Turf sells it at $132 a pallet. The big problem is they can not grow it fast enough. They are sold out. One must get on a list for the July crop

"Celebration is a common Bermudagrass, originally from Australia - it is neither a hybrid nor a patented variety. TifGrand is a sterile triploid hybrid, patented (PP21017)and grown only as certified sod. The LSD in the Clemson 2007 study referred to is 0.05 or 5%."

terricc, can you clarify two things for me.

1. If Celebration is not a hybrid, shouldn't seeds be available?

2. Can you explain what is meant by an LSD of 5%? Is that significant & how does that relate to the Clemson study between TifGrand & Celebration in term of shade tolerance. In layman's term, is there much of a difference?

Thanks.

If Celebration is not a hybrid, shouldn't seeds be available?

No it is a certified and licensed hybrid variety that can only be vegetative propagated.

dwrector - 1.) Celebration is a natural selection of common Bermuda. It can and does cross-pollinate with any common Bermuda growing in its vicinity. Therefore Celebration does not necessarily come true from seed and over time variations can occur. TifGrand is a seed sterile triploid hybrid and will not cross pollinate so the stand will remain absolutely consistent in appearance, maintenance requirements, etc.
2.) I mis-spoke with the % - it's actually a value. If the difference between any two values are greater than 0.05 then there is a statistically significant difference - this means that the difference is the result of more than just chance, that it is a meaningful difference. The Clemson Study(2007)was conducted with pots, over only 8 weeks, in greenhouses - but even at that, TifGrand outscored Celebration in most categories including shade tolerance. You can take a look at http://www.tifgrand.com/tg42cultivarstg2.htm for a more complete discussion of this study. There's a photo from TPC Prestancia showing TifGrand next to Celebration at http://www.tifgrand.com/tgphotostg2.htm (6th one down) you might want to take a look at, too.

texas-weed - See above, please. Celebration is not a hybrid, it is a natural selection of common bermuda. The science is way over my head, but, genetically hybrids have a specific chromosome signature and common turfgrasses have a different one - for the lab guys it is a simple matter to determine what's what.

Here is a link that might be useful: TifGrand-the world's first sterile hybrid Bermuda for shade!

Thanks terricc for that detailed scientific explanation. I'm gonna throw one more curve ball at ya. What do you make of this statement from the Discussion section of the Clemson Study:

"The most consistent performing cultivar across all parameters was Celebration. When grown in shade, Celebration was able to consistently maintain TQ, chlorophyll, root length, and root biomass in the top statistical category."

Thanks.

Good question, drwrecktor - looking at the actual data they reported I'm kinda at a loss to explain that myself! What do you make of it?

Here is a link that might be useful: TifGrand-the world's first sterile hybrid Bermuda for shade!

LOL funny you ask what I thought being you're more the expert than I am, but I'll give it a shot.

The way I see it is this. TigGrand is the new kid on the block and is only slightly better than Celebration in terms of shade tolerance. A lot of the info on the TifGrand site is rather bias, as it should be. Obviously they must have read that line in the report, but chose not to publish it. If you go to this link here,

http://www.sodsolutions.com/about/celebration/homeowners/research_celebration

you'll see that same report referenced but skewed toward Celebration. I was excited when this thread came up, but upon looking at the actual data (& a click away from ordering a tray of TifGrand plugs), I came to my senses & will wait for more conclusive evidence. I currently have a small shaded area in my yard that I'm experimenting w/ Celebration. Maybe when TifGrand is more readily available & cheaper, I'll it to the experiment.

The real test is when I try the stuff and see how it does under my shady areas over several years. Sometimes I think these "studies" and "experiments" have some bias written into them for one type of grass or another. I also think the studies are not totally accurate in predicting "real world" results. On the other hand controlled studies are all we have sometimes given the time constraints involved in evaluating something like a hybrid grass that producers are trying to get to market. If Celebration is seeded and can be cross pollinated the variations may render it useless to me. A sterile hybrid that maintains it characteristics would be more desirable. Time will tell if TifGrand is seriously shade tolerant or not. We just have to sift through these studies and try to decipher out the truth as opposed to the sales hype that gets mixed in there with it.

terricc I respectively disagree. Celebration is a hybrid under patent and licensee protection.

Hybrid Bermuda grass by definition is: It does not produce any viable seed and can only be propagated by sod, seed, or sprigs.
Celebration is classified as hybrid just like Tifway, TifSport, GN-1, TifGrand, etc...

Look at any sod farm site or University study and Celebration is classified as hybrid

Indeed, dwrecktor and rdaystrom, the real proof is in the lawns and on the golf courses over time. At the beginning we go with we got - the studies and the evaluations. And I agree, everyone needs to read the studies and make their own informed decisions.

texas-weed, you are correct, Celebration is grown as a certified sod and requires a license to grow as such and to use the logo. But it is not patented - or at least the USTPO doesn't think so (www.USPTO.gov):the logo is trademarked, but that's all. TifGrand is patented as ST-5, the developmental designation, under PP21017: the name and the logo are in the trademark registration process. (If you have a patent number for Celebration, please let us know and I promise I'll print out this exchange and eat my words.)
I suspect sod farms say whatever their licensors tell them to say and trials and evaluations are perhaps more concerned with the qualities they are trialing than the strict scientific definition of a hybrid.

dwrecktor, keep us posted on your trial, please. I think we're all interested in how it goes.

Here is a link that might be useful: TifGrand-the world's first sterile hybrid Bermuda for shade!