You planted two weeds. Just understand that. The annual rye is turning yellow and will die out in the summer heat. The K-31 is an untamed fescue. It will be a nice color but not great texture. Also it will not fill in where the annual rye dies out. You should either plant more K-31 or some mix of fescues and Kentucky bluegrass in the fall.

You're doing the right things by your watering and mowing. You cannot make the annual rye survive the summer, though.

Never apply lime unless and until you have a good soil test that tells you how much to use and which kind of lime. There are 2 limes that do different things.

The grass should be slowing down now after the initial surge. That's normal. If you can remember next year, don't fertilize early in the spring. The grass is going to go through an initial surge anyway. If you fertilize early that will force the grass to use more nutrients and leave it really sagging about this time next year. I mean REALLY sagging. It is better to let Nature take Her course for the spring and then fertilize in May to late May.

My big preference for fertilizer is organic. As the temps get warming, you can apply organics with confidence that there will be no problems with the grass. If you use chemical fertilizers, the heat can be a problem. If you wait until June or July to apply chemicals, you should fertilize at half the bag rate. This time of year you still can apply at full bag rate.

Why would your soil be any harder now than it was a month or two ago? Did you rototill the soil before seeding?

I have K-31 in my backyard and I get annoyed when people say things like "K-31 is a weed. K-31 is only for pastures; NEVER plant it in a lawn." That's simple lawn snobbery. K-31 is fine in certain circumstances:

1. First and foremost, it's very inexpensive. This is a factor for many people and many situations. I have a very large backyard that I'm not willing or able to water as frequently as I'd like. I also have two large dogs. Spending a lot of money on the back lawn isn't an option.

2. K-31 is very hardy and drought tolerant. The stuff will grow in very bad soil and has incredible wear tolerance. It stays green during my hot Kansas summers even though I provide zero irrigation.

3. It doesn't look nearly as bad as lawn snobs imply. If you have a whole stand of K-31 and keep it mowed at 3 inches like any other cool season grass, it looks fine. Yes, the blades are coarse, but I don't find that to be an unacceptable look.

But yeah, never plant annual rye. You're going to regret that one.

Excellent counterpoint CPTK.

Shrug, I just don't think K-31 looks that bad. It's a very different look, but like I said when it's mowed I don't mind it. I guess that's just a matter of taste. But sometimes you need to cover a large area inexpensively, and in those cases you're usually also looking for lower maintenance, and I think K-31 does well in that scenario.

Look at the link below. Is the difference really as great as many assert?

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:91174}}

This post was edited by CPTK on Fri, May 23, 14 at 17:19

Thank you CPTK.

K31 is just fine. As for the annual rye grass, it's root system is EXTENSIVE and grows just as fast, if not faster than the above ground part. The clay soil is tough enough and i thought the more root systems i could establish beneath the surface, the better. I have no intention of keeping it through the entire year. However, we have not had that many hot days and thought it may be too soon for the rye to be dying. Also, it's only 25% rye and it seems as though a lot of the blades have portions that are turning brown... i know it's at least a lot less then 50% because I got two bags for 50/50 k31 and rye and two bags of k31. The clay is harder now due to the dirt being graded before planted... this was a brand new lawn.

Anyways, back to my questions:

1) Is it advisable to aerate with a plug aerator at this time?

2) I realize the benefits of organic ferts but I'm very cost conscious at the moment. So, if you have a as-cost-effective method of ferts as the chemical then I'm all ears. Either way, is it advisable to put down some more now or would it be a waste.

3) And, maybe it is just he rye dying off, which is fine, but like I said it seems as though it's effecting more than the amount of rye that was mixed in...

**If it is not the rye, what would cause some blades of the same piece of grass to turn brown while the rest of the individual grass plant to look fine. Could it just need some more nutrients in the form of fertilizer since this is a new lawn in a mostly clay environment?

Thank you for all the feedback! Even to the guy who called k31 a weed! By the way I understand it, a weed is merely something that you don't want in specific place and as I want the k31 there, it would not be considered a weed!!! :-) Thanks still though!

bump.

I would wait on aerification. Your most likely going to need to overseed early fall anyway. Aerify as much as you want early fall, right before you overseed. Fertilizer? It depends on how much N per thousand sq. ft. you put out last time and if your fescue has already started to tiller out.

Bump.
This site has become rather deplete in knowledgeable and experienced turf advisers. dchall is one of the few left. I may not whole heartedly agree with everything he advises, but I have yet to see him give bad advice.
I understand why you may have been offended by his classifying your selection of ground cover as weed, but by most any standard, neither of those grasses you planted would fall into a list of turf quality grasses.
Driving him away from posting in response to your queries has reduced your chance of getting useful answers immensely.

As to your issue: Apply the process of elimination. First, look for sgns of disease, Rust is common this time of year and often manefests in individual leaf die off. Secondly, look for signs of damaging insects. This is the time for webworms, they too can result in individual leaf die off.

Didn't want to run him off. I thought I made it clear that all I want is green and safe/comfortable for my kids to play on. His comments were very much appreciated! Especially concerning the time of year to fertilize and to what extent! Thanks again!

Thanks for the feedback about the other problems. I'll look into the rust and possible insects.

I was hoping to be able to aerate to help with the clay that is hardening up in the places that the grass didn't take as well. I do plan to overseed a lot in the fall but thought it might be okay to aerate now and in the fall. Anybody else want to comment on the aeration?

Thanks again!

In a cost/benefit analysis, aeration's benefits are maximized when done in early spring and in the fall when root production is at a peak and/or in conjunction with another process like seeding, fertilizing, adding amendments, topdressing etc.
Aeration's costs are maximized when performed at a time when it is likely to aid in weed infestation.
In my judgment, aeration between now and the end of August is not cost effective. It gives the lowest benefits at the highest costs. You may end up finding the benefits well worth the costs.

This post was edited by yardtractor1 on Sun, May 25, 14 at 10:29

I would definitely agree that K-31 is not a "quality" turfgrass, but it is a turfgrass. It's not a weed or solely for pastures (although it is widely used for that purpose). There are probably millions of lawns in the US that are K-31 lawns, so to say it isn't a lawn grass is objectively false.

Some people are very, very into lawns. They want the highest quality turf they can get. I have no issue with that. I'm one of them (in my front yard). I just think we go a little too far when we tell an average home owner that he planted a weed in his yard because he planted a grass that people have been using for lawns for decades.

Also, I don't see why a discussion of K-31 should prevent anyone from answering a guy's question about aeration.

A number of people grow K31 or clover lawns, some grow poa trivialis or dandelion lawns. The majority of people, I mean snobs, grow improved turf quality grasses and they treat K31, clover, trivialis and dandelions as weeds. Consequently, they have no experience in cultivating those other ground covers and they will be short on advice. That's the important point here.
As you are one of the few people here with K31 experience, what is killing of his blades?

As long as you refer to people on the forum as snobs, I honestly doubt you'll get the advice you're looking for. This particular forum is largely dedicated to those who grow improved cultivars, not forage grasses. Anyway...

Annual rye WILL die. What you describe indicates that is what is happening, yet you've posted no pictures - so it's complete speculation you are seeking advice against - nobody is going to give you confirmation without snaps. Expect bare areas that will become weed patches.

Aeration - rarely needed if you use shampoo instead. In fact, if you have undesirables that spread by stolons (e.g. Poa Trivialis) expect them to spread. Do yourself a favor and look up shampooing on this site. Tons of advice on how to do it.

Might want to lay off the "snob" talk though... Good luck.

Have you ever actually seen K31, or are you just going off what you read? If not, check out this link: http://www.sustland.umn.edu/maint/images/TurfgrassSelectionImages/Fig4.22-TTTF vs TF-K31-credit.jpg

Here's one of many lawn websites that list K31 as a lawn grass: http://www.american-lawns.com/grasses/k31.html

This post was edited by CPTK on Sun, May 25, 14 at 21:05

Yup, I'm familiar with K31. We seeded our fields with it for our livestock for years growing up. Here's a website that lists it as forage, which is exactly what it is...

http://www.fescue.com/info/k31.html#.U4KYKPldXIc

And there are many, many more that describe it as a forage grass - because it is.

Not disagreeing that it can be a nice groundcover at all.

hey gsweater, take a look back and see if I EVER rendered the word snob!

Just for the record, I didn't delve into this fact before but feel the need to now. Those of YOU that prefer to grow the new and improved "turf" grasses that require more watering and more fertilization, thanks for adding to the pollution and decreasing quality water supply. :-)

NEVERMIND my question and seeking of nonjudgmental feedback.

Enjoy your water loving, excess nutrient loving, slate of a yard. Me, I'll enjoy my just as enjoyable K31 (and whatever else green that decides to grow) that I won't have to worry about, won't have to water as much, wont' have to fertilize as much, and also enjoy my natural, native species throughout the REST of my yard. (yes, i know k31 is not native)

Think more! If it really requires that much WORK and thought, does it really need to be in your area.

And if you argue that if you water and fertilize just enough that it's okay... stop fooling yourself, you know full well you're over fertilizing and if you're not, 9 out of 10 others are that are growing these "improved" hybrids.

GOODBYE.

NTEP says it all. Here, let me Google that for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=K3+NTEP

Regarding "snob" comments, perhaps you should re-read this thread when you aren't so aggro.

Yeah... Still "aggro" but still reread my comments and nowhere did I call anyone a snob. I actually thanked the guy that called my choice of grass a weed... Thanks... Bye... Still "aggro"

An environmental sermon from a man who planted a grass known as "TOXIC fescue".

That's the only rebuttal you can come up with? That it's not good for being a grazing grass like you're saying it's only good for? Try again.

Jacob,
I'm not sure who is speaking to whom anymore, but for a moment, try to set your feelings of persecution aside.
The point I was trying to make is that, to my knowledge, there are few people on this forum familiar with K31 cultivation. I tried to explain why that would be. It's not important. Forget that. The important thing is that few people have experience with K31 on this forum and good advice is very likely to be lacking.
I took a shot in the dark with rust and webworms based on my experience with fescues in general, but I have no idea if K31 is even susceptible to them given its unique natural defenses.
The only person I would even suspect might have some insight would be dchall as I think he was a former owner of a garden and lawn site and is extremely well informed on many relevant issues.
DPTK is the only person posting that they have a K31 lawn, but for some reason DPTK has provided no advice on your issues.
As I have no experience with K31, I'm out and should have been from the start.
Good luck to you.

Edit: It appears that dchall was not an owner, but a moderator on a couple of other sites.

This post was edited by yardtractor1 on Tue, May 27, 14 at 1:29

NTEP studies are irrelevant because I never stated that K31 was a high quality grass. In fact, I explicitly stated that K31 is not a high quality grass. The only thing I stated was that K31 is a lawn grass which it is.

You actually accidentally supported my statement by mentioning NTEP. K31 is in the NTEP studies of LAWN GRASSES every year. So your beloved NTEP considers it a lawn grass. Thanks for the assist.

As to the focus on the term "lawn snob," stop trying to act like this is some sort of horrendous insult like I said your mom works nights in Bangkok or something. "Lawn snob" simply means "lawn connoisseur" with perhaps the slightest bit of negative connotation meant entirely playfully. I call myself a lawn snob for example. This isn't MSNBC or Fox News, so quit with the feigned outrage. The question at hand is a purely factual one: is K31 a lawn grass? The evidence is overwhelming. We've already established that NTEP considers it a lawn grass. I've posted other sources. Shall I now take pictures of K31 lawns throughout Kansas? Post pictures of bags of grass seed that says "K31 lawn grass" on it?

You need to make the distinction between your opinion and reality. In your opinion K31 is unfit for a lawn. But your opinion isn't the criteria that determines whether it is or not.

I'm going to chime in for just a second, only pertaining to the original question. I'm far from an expert. I finished up a new construction last year and planted annual rye on the whole yard, because I was out of money and couldn't afford to sod the yard in bermuda. The annual rye came up nicely for the most part, somewhat patchy but it did it's job of holding the yard until spring. I sewed bermuda and fescue, half rebels southern blend and half k31. Which have came up nicely in the shade. A month later I finally have bermuda germinating and hopefully by the end of the summer it will spread into a nice lawn. But my point I want to make is, about a few weeks ago I was thinking the rye was the dumbest idea ever, but now I have noticed its silver lining. At the same time my neighbor sodded half his yard, and sewed the other half in some kind of hybrid golf course fescue. My yard, although the rye looks bad now because it is dying, has very very few weeds in it, while the fescue half of his yard is probably 25% weeds. It's all thanks to the noxious weed I planted back in October. Another good thing about the rye is it has an extensive root system, which when it dies in the heat, leaves the soil ariated so the turf grass roots can grow easier. Not everybody can afford to go 100% top quality turf, but in a few years I hope to have grown one from scratch.