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Round-Up Before Tilling?

Posted by JawjaPeach 7 (My Page) on
Tue, May 17, 11 at 13:42

I am about to re-sod my front lawn. I have no choice. We had a huge Bradford Pear tree that took away the original grass to tumble on us last fall. Now that the summer is approaching I am having the soil lightly tilled and smoothed for the laying of new sod.

The gentleman who plans to do the tilling suggested I spray the weed infested and sparsely left Burmuda grass (what you can see of it) with Round Up and kill off everything before tilling. He plans to till down only 4-5", not a major deep till. I do have those pesky tree roots still in the ground from the stump grinding that are already sending up new shoots. So they have to go and they are out in every direction.

My only concern is, what kind of residue will the Round Up leave that will be turned over and turned into the soil? I am not so concerned about it harming the new sod as I am the possible prevention of or the killing off of those good earthworms and such.

Would I be tilling poison into the earth. Or should I be okay? And how long should I wait before having the sod laid if I do use the Round Up?

And....................If I do not use the Round Up, will I be tilling those weed seeds back in for later growth? For I have seen weeds come right up through Burmuda sod and I don't care how much folks have said it should choke out the weeds. They do raise their nasty little heads right up through that thick tuft. Grrrrugh....


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

DO NOT TILL, use the round up, wait a day, fertilize and water it in deeply in to make the existing Bermuda grow for a week, then nuke it again with RU. Repeat as many times as necessary till the Bermuda dies off completely and wait at least one-week for the RU to completely degrade before laying sod.

Day before you lay the sod scalp the lawn down as low as you can, rake up and bag all the debris, then rent a power rake aka vertical mower to loosen up the top 1/2 inch or so of the soil, then lay the sod down

If you till you will have several years of leveling and smoothing to do plus a bumper crop of weeds to fight.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Jawja,

I am in the same position and have been doing a lot of studying.. Just finished killing off my weeds and grass. I beleive the round-up bottle says 3 days before planting, but what I have found on the internet, more like 7 days. I had to spray twice (which is what will normally happen). I would spray, wait 5-7 days and spray again, then till 5-7 days later.

As Round-up kills by absorbing into the leaf of the grass, it should have no effect on your earthworms as it should be evaporated by the time you till.

By the way, if you can find someone who can power rake (with a Harley Power Rake), it may be better than tilling as some will say that tilling will wake up the 100's of years of dormant weed seed. Unfortunately, I live in a small Tennessee town and tilling seems to be my only option.


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Follow Up

Unfortunately, I live in a small Tennessee town and tilling seems to be my only option.

Maybe, or maybe not as there are options. If the yard is rather small and your soil is not hard pan just use a garden rake to loosen up the soil.

Another option we use a lot is what we call a SUGAR COAT. All that means is a light top dressing of sand, peat (not peat moss), or quality top soil.

Trick is is you have to scalp the yard and remove all the debris. If you use a garden rake to remove the debris, loosen up the soil at the same time and kill two birds with one stone.

JawgaPeach you got your answer right about the Bible?


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Thanks TW. Your input is always valued..


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

WOW! A vertical rake??? I have never heard of such. But you better believe I'll find someone with one. Are they difficult to use? I googled a pic of it. They look quite harmless as long as I keep my feet from out under it. Wonder if I can find a place to rent one.

This could save me a few hundred if I dismiss the tilling team. In which I will now have to. TW are you close to the Atlanta area? You're hired! LOL

No nothing on the BB yet. :(

Thanks for such valued information. Priceless...


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

WOW! A vertical rake??? I have never heard of such. But you better believe I'll find someone with one. Are they difficult to use?

No they are real easy to use just like a lawn mower. Find a Home Depot, and you found one to rent along with about any rental place that rent lawn power equipment.

No nothing on the BB yet. :(

You sent me an email, and I replied back with the link. Did you not get it? I would post it here but they would terminate my account if I did.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Got it! Thanks so much. If I had checked my email before my last post, I would have seen it. Duh.... What a lot to learn. It truly is a Bible on lawns. I especially love the fact that it's organic.

Back to my dilemma. I am taking your advice and not going to till. Question is I still face this Bradford Pear tree root problem.

Technically I live in the Kennesaw suburb of Atlanta (about 18 mi. north of the city) you don't happen to be close in proximity do you? LOL

Do you know of an easier way to get out these long roots other than a good ole shovel on a post rainy day? Not sure a vertical rake will do much for these roots, or will it? I'm so excited about this project except for the root job. UUgghhh......

Have had a cold snap here in "MID-MAY"!!! can you believe that? it's 47 degrees here at present so my Round Up project has been put on hold. Double GRRRUHH!!!!

Oh yea. Just for curiosity sake. Why do I need to water the yard a few days after applying RU?

Thanks again TW


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Wow Jawga I will try to answer most of your questions.

No I live about 2000 miles due west of you. I now reside is Prescott AZ now, retired and working my 3rd career as a golf course supt. Doesn't pay much of anything, just keeps me occupied, free golf, and the eye candy is fantastic. Adolf my German Shepperd loves to run around with me on the course. He keeps those mean ole squirrels, cats, and desert quail away from me. I have never seen so many quail in my life as we have hear. They are everywhere you look.

If you dig the roots out, you have to replace the displaced soil so you might just let Mother Nature do her thing. If you have a good lawn tractor, you can dig up the large end that was nearest the tree and get a rope or chain around it. Then you can use the lawn tractor to pull it up. But warning if there is any underground utility or water pipes above the root, you will rip them up as well.

The water thing is you want to get the Bermuda growing as vigorously as possible by watering and fertilizing. This is why you want to wait until it is good and warm. RU is most effective when temps are warm, and the target is rapidly growing. RU will not phase dormant Bermuda. In fact you can use RU on a dormant Bermuda lawn in winter to kill anything green (weeds) like Poa.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

ARIZONA!!!!! You have some nerve living sooo far away from me!!

Okay TW, picture this. A small 1/4 acre yard. And I am only re-sodding half of that. A 2 pallett sod job. I own a weed eater, a small non propelled $90 lawn mower, a garden rake, shovel and hoe. So when you say lawn tractor I have to roll my eyes, drop my jaw and hit the floor laughing.. I wish!

However...................I do have a car. So................if I can find some way to hitch those roots to it, (don't worry, I wont tie it to the bumper) I think I could go that route. What do you think? The water line is under some of the roots (maybe 2 or 3) but doubt that the roots are deep enough to affect it.
Although the tree stood for 12 years. I am concerned as to how to attach the rope or whatever I use, tight enough to not have it slip off. I have a 1/2" drill bit. Maybe drill a hole through the thick end of the root and run the rope through it? Thinking out loud here.

By the way. After a few hundred phone calls I did find a place that will rent me this power rake. They call it a Verticutter. Also known as a dethatcher, vertical mower, and as you have said, a power rake. Geeze..........too many names......I can get it for $71 a day or half that for 4 hrs. And told it would fit in the trunk of my car. I am thinking about an early visit to go and see it before I decide to bring it home or have them deliver it. I live 2.1 miles from the rental facility. They want $55 each way. I gasped..... are you gasping???

So here's my list of MORE questions for you. LOL

1. Would you happen to know how deep those tree roots could be? If I can see all the way around the root at the thick end OR the tail end, wouldn't you guess they were pretty shallow midway of the root? The thickest end of the roots are about 2" in diameter or possibly 2 1/2". Don't worry, I won't hold you liable for any conjectures or advice.

2. It seems these power rakes have depth settings on them. What setting do you recommend ?

3. How would you attach the rope to the root to pull it out? and would you even use rope?

4. Would you use your car if there were nothing else?

5. I was hoping to bring in some highly screened topsoil mixed with some black manure to smooth out over the ground before I lay the sod. What do you think?

6. Is there a way to go straight to my post here without having to scroll the topics? It's alright for now, but if I have more questions 2-3 weeks from now after the weeds are dead, scrolling to hunt for my thread could take as long as it is taking for me to write this......

7. Is this enough questions for today?? LOL God bless your soul..........

Okay TW. Awaiting your help once again...................... You're such a dear one..........The patience of Job...........

Jawja


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Jawja: You are too freakin' funny! Humorous is always a good disposition.

Seeing someone pulling tree roots with their car reminds me of "things that could possibly go wrong". Lol!

I don't think you asked Weed enough questions. You got any more?


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

I might have more questions once I am into this thing. He is such a wonderful help. Hey! It's his fault! He told me what to do and by golly I'm doing it. I know he is right and will lead me to a beautiful lawn if I follow his advice. Besides, the reason I cram so much in is because it seems we can only add one reply per answered post. Leading one to having to get it all in while it's fresh on the mind.

I have always been rather blessed with adventures that were far more "could possibly go wrong" than this. The Lord has always been good to me and watches out for me in all my endeavors. I think He made me this way so as to get a few laughs for Himself. For I have never had any problems or failures in many of the quirky adventures I have taken on.

I also go slow and listen for sounds that could indicate a problem around the corner. My risks of this sort are always calculated. So if I hear the slightest notion that my car is about to come apart whilst pulling these roots, you better believe I'll halt the entire project and head down to the local town square at 7 a.m. and hire me a bunch of good Mexicans.

If anyone reading this has any answers to my questions I will be more than happy to see the list lessen for TW. However, compared to all he writes on this site, my few questions are but a drop in the bucket. He is amazing....

So do you know how to return here without looking all over the place for your thread or post?

Enjoyed your comments....


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Geez Jawga give me a break or send a check please :>)

1. The roots of a Bradford Pair are shallow and run horizontally just under the grade.

2. Yes both depth and space between the blades are settable. If seeding set space to as close as possible, and depth to no more than 1-inch, 1/2 inch is good. All you want to do is loosen of the top portion, not till. You can even spread some starter fert before you rake to help work it in the soil.

3. Use rope and go to a Boy Scout, Navy Bosa Mate, or tower climber to learn how to tie a TIMBER HITCH which is a form of a HITCH Know. Another method is the Zigzag aka Backtracking Hitch.

4. No comment. I do not know how you can obtain the proper angle with a car or truck.

5. Good idea, goferit. Apply just before you power rake to work it in.

6. Do not know how to do that as this is antique/outdated forum software. If I were you, I would just start another thread when the time comes.

7. Send check and I will get over it.

Back to the roots. I advise you Let Mother Nature take care of it especially if they are underground. For the areas where the roots are above ground cover with top soil and grade it out. Would hate to see you get hurt or yank up a electric, water, sewer, gas, CATV, or telephone line. That gets real expensive real fast, and can even kill you if it is gas or electric. Be careful and choose wisely.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Now TW you know I offered you a donation and you wouldn't take it. LOL Betcha regret it now. Thanks for all your help. I went to You Tube and found the timber hitch knot. What an easy knot for such big jobs. I will include the links at the end of this post in case anyone else is interested. These are very good knots to know.

Believe it or "knot" LOL....... I think I have all my answers and am ready to begin. Plan to spray the 1st round of RU Sat. Had the right temps today but the winds were up.

Thank you again and I will post before and after pics once finished in a new thread. And might throw in a few fun ones like "dragging out the roots with Lexus ES". LOL

You are a marvelous help.

Oh yea. I just bookmarked this post and can now come straight to it. Always more than one way to skin a cat.

Here's the video links on how to tie a Timber Hitch. Both are quite good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7TT1IcEYPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7-kQKCCCRQ


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

On the Timber Hitch use 3 loops, not 2 as shown. Also use at least 2 or more Half Hitches, the video only showed 1. If you do that and tie them correctly, the rope will break before it slips off in most cases.

Warning and listen good. Clear everyone out from the area, and make sure the driver of the car, truck, or tractor has protection in case the rope does slip or break. It is the kind of rubber band snap that can sever heads and limbs off. I am not kidding, be careful.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

This needs to be on video and made into a Lexus commercial........

"The Lexus ES, the multi-functional, luxury vehicle. Now available with a tree root removal package". Lol.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

What a marvelous idea N&W! I think you are much funnier than me! I am sitting here laughing my butt off!!!!

Thank you TW for all the extras on the timber hitch tie. I will be sure to have those windows up and probably the air running. :) I think it helps to know that it is as you say as far as the roots to this tree being very shallow. And of course the root area will be filled in with good dirt... Ya'll be patient as far as the uprooting goes. We're looking at around 2 more weeks for that stage of it.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

I'm in Acworth. I would loan you my power rake, but it needs a new engine. Finding a rental that has the correct blades is difficult. Your best bet would be to find a slit seeder. You don't have to use it with seed. Everything else around here is a de-thatcher that uses flail blades. You need one with delta knives.
I would just burry the roots with some top soil and lay sod on top.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

I would just bury the roots with some top soil and lay sod on top.

I have been trying to convince her to do that, but she has her mind made up. One thing I have learned in my short 58 years on earth is when a women makes up her mind, don' argue with them even if they are wrong. Just say: "
you right dear, I am sorry, and it will never happen again"
. Do that and everyone will be happy. :>)


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

But Weed, aren't you curious to see what happens when a Lexus hitches up to a tree root? Where's your adventurous spirit? This reminds me of Ludell Hogwaller and "Momma". Oh, this is gonna be good.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Now TW.......I have re-read your posts here and I don't see where you have told me to not do anything but use either a hand rake or a power rake to get up all the debris.

Here's your quote: "Day before you lay the sod scalp the lawn down as low as you can, rake up and bag all the debris, then rent a power rake aka vertical mower to loosen up the top 1/2 inch or so of the soil, then lay the sod down."

Did you tell me to not use anything and just put down good soil on top and lay the sod? I will if that is your ultimate advice. I never knew such an animal existed before you........Hey, you know more about this than I do.

I will not use the dethatcher ( power rake) if you say so. Lordy, what do I know. I was merely taking your advice. But if you say don't use anything to remove the dead debris but a hand rake, you better believe that is all I'll use.. It will be similiar to raking cement but I will do it. Besides, I will fair better monetarily if I don't rent anything. So you just give the word and I won't touch this ground with any machine until it's time for my first cutting on the new sod. "Girl Scouts honor"........

Now Wrager! You are nuttin but a big tease. Here you are telling me you have a dead machine that will do the job about 8 mi. from me. Thanks a lot! Hope you enjoyed it! LOL You're welcome to come down and see the project if you'd like. Do you have a camcorder for root removal day for Near&West? I know she'd love that!

Bought a 32oz. "Grass Killer" today and used a hose end sprayer set to 10tbs. Went through that like like candy. Off to get a gallon concentrate of the stuff. It has more of the "G" stuff in it than RU.

Come on down Wrager!


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Testing to see if I can add a post to my own.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

No ultimate would be spray twice with RU, mow, remove debris, and hire a contractor to come in with a tractor and box blade to regrade the area and then lay the sod.

Minimum is as I suggested RU, mow, rake, and loosen up the top 1/inch of soil. To take it one step further bring in some top soil or compost to apply a sugar coat. For safety I would leave the roots and bury the exposed roots with top soil providing it does not cause drainage problems to your home of lot.

Without actually seeing things all I can do is give it my best guestimate.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Weed: You are taking all the fun out of this. Please re-advise so that JawjaPeach can use the multi-functional Lexus ES with the tree root removal package. I really do need a good laugh.

And to you JawjaPeach: I am not a "She"!!! I am most definitely a multi-functional "he". Lol.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Sorry about that "MR." Near&West. LOL

My Dear TW. There's not a landscaper here that I know of that would want to touch my little ole p-nut job. We're talking about a very small part of a very small yard. I am waiting for my new....ahem.......Macbook Pro....... to be delivered tomorrow and when it arrives I plan to download the driver for my camera. Once installed I will bring pics to the party and then you will see the postage stamp I am trying to repair. A landscaper would look at me and laugh...

The root area alone is the largest part of it all. Unfortunately I cannot leave the roots because #1 they will be in the way, unless I want sod with humps in it. They are sitting right on top of the ground. And # 2 They are sending up new shoots. And #3 One is headed straight for the driveway and will have it cracked by next spring if not sooner. So they will have to come out. I cannot believe these things are still alive being cut off from the mother trunk. Have you ever heard of such?

Now get this.........When the stump grinder came and did his thing. He left a hole so deep in the ground that one could bury a body there. I mean it was about 4'deep. So because of that I poured close to 40 bags of topsoil combined with "Moo-Nure" into that burial site.

The place where the tree was- was in a raised mound. And not thinking that I would need to dig back into that area to find the beginning of the roots, I raised that area with MORE bags of topsoil and "Moo-Nure" to about a foot high. THEN!!!!! Covered it in black velvet mulch to protect the dirt from running off in the rain. For I plan to bring in a Muscogee Crepe Myrtle (lavender blooms) and plant some flowers in that raised bed. Then build a low natural stone wall around the front and sides of the bed.

So what we're looking at here is a small postage stamp with root tenacles spreading from the center of the yard that are buried under a foot high round mound that is about 8' in dia. We call it the pitcher's mound. Can't wait for you to see the pic. So now.............AFTER all the weeds are dead and removed, I will have to go back to the mound, rake off the protective mulch, drag it somewhere in the yard, (I haven't a wheel barrow I use a tarp) shovel down the mound, (I plan to just sling the mound dirt all over the yard) smooth it down, then dig in and around the smoothed out mound for those root heads and pull up or dig up enough root to get it attached to my built in Lexus root pulling pkg.

And I tell ya TW, by the time I find enough root to apply 2-3 more half hitches, I'll probably be near the end of the root and might as well just dig the whole thing up. LOL..... Don't worry, I'll do as you say.

Now here's another funny thing. My dear sweet neighbor has her house up for sale. Can you imagine when people drop by to view the house what they are going to think when they see the house next door with a yellowing and browning yard with an 8' black mound in the middle of it???? Oh well.......

Lastly, I inherited this house. My home is actually about 15mi. from here. I landscaped it myself and have to say, it is gorgeous. It truly is a magazine yard. Sorry but after 10 years of cultivating it with trees, shrub, flowers, stone and boulders, it is worth a sentence of brag. I will include a few pics of it when I bring the pics of this project here. I am especially proud of my 10 year old "New Dawn" rose arbor. It is a flourisher and covered in beautiful white blooms as I write this. My neighbors take their family portraits in front of it when their families come in town. I have Zoyzia grass there.

Hey TW. I'll be 58 in July. How did you get to retire so young? My work will take me to the day I die. But that is alright, I love it. I am an artist. I paint huge and I mean huge contemporary silk paintings, float them in large sheets of glass and then are suspended in either large homes. restaurants, hotels, etc.... My studio is at my "other" home.

Oh yea. And one more thing. I used this "Ultra Kill" grass and weed killer yesterday. Now it was 90 degrees here and total sun. As far as early signs of kill?? = NOTHING! I went online to read about this stuff and it is going back to Lowes today. It has been listed at Ripoff.com. I thought since it had 25% of the "G" stuff in it as opposed to RU's 2.5% that it would make a mean strike. What a joke. SO buyers beware. It is pure junk. It is called "Ultra Kill" Weed and Grass Killer by Chemisco. Avoid it all costs. Fortunately I ran out very quickly (32 oz. experiment) and began spraying where I'm clearing a 4' wide run alongside the house to plant 12 Butterfly bushes. So whatever residue this junk left in the soil will be dug up for planting. I thank God that there was only a small strip applied to the front lawn where I am working on this project.

Also I bought two 32 oz. bottles of Ortho's "Total Kill" for it touts 41% of the "G" stuff. Before I opened it I read online where it does do the job but is VERY slow. I don't have time for VERY slow. So it goes back today for a gallon of RU concentrate in exchange. So I am still on phase 1. I will be coming back here often to keep you all abreast.

My my, I do say "So" alot don't I?

Until next time............................


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Take an axe and pair of loppers to the above ground roots, leave the buried roots in the ground. Deal with any sprouts by regular mowing.

Glyphosate is slow to show results but if you gave them a good spraying thay are dead already, they just don't know it. You can use a combination of glyphosate and diquat as diquat gives the overnight wilting but I think this is more of a "feel good" action for the comsumer. Leave the plot for a couple of days while the chemical translocates throughout the plants.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Hey TW. I'll be 58 in July. How did you get to retire so young?

Pretty simple really anyone can do it. I planned for it when I graduated from high school. I lived below my means, paid cash for everything, saved 20% of every dollar I made and invested it. I could have retired at 45.

Now with that said I have retired 2 times already and now working again part time as a golf course supt in Prescott AZ. Doesn't really pay anything, but I do not do it for the money, just do it to have something to do when I am not playing golf, fishing, traveling, raising mators, or get tired of goofing off.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

TW you had a very good raising. Either you or your parents taught you well.

Have any idea as to what kind of rope I need for pulling up those roots?? What do you think about Weed Cutter's advice? (see above) Those roots will have to come out. I don't want bumps under my purty new sod.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Use the rope that came with your Lexus ES tree root removal package. You did order the package, didn't you Jawja?


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

TW you had a very good raising. Either you or your parents taught you well.

Thank you it was my Father who taught me, but I was slow. My siblings did very well as they have been retire for years and younger than I. Heck even their kids, grand kids, and beyond are taken care of. Only regret is I did write a book like Dave Ramsey did which is about the same model.

As for a rope I like double braid nylon as it is soft and binds well.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Drag home a 10' 4x4 post and use it to lever the roots out.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

I'm ready to post these pics and I cannot figure out how to upload them to my post here. Do any of you guys know how? Can't wait to show you my postage stamp of a yard project.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

First you need an account with Photbucket or some other servier that host photos. Under each picture you just copy the HREF script and paste

The code will look something like this:

""

and it prints like this

Porch View


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

TW: You can't use the actual code. You need to escape the brackets. Here's the code for the picture above:

<img src="http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/dereckbc/267.jpg">


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

bp thanks but actually i was using Href code, not image. I am old :>)


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Okay guys here ya go. First experiment is a pic of the house that is already seasoned and lookin' good. But TW the only thing I saw was "" on your post. I have no idea what bpgreen saw.

And since I don't know where to paste it I am pasting here and the Optional Link URL and the Name of Link.

Hope you guys can see this....

http://nfinit.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Landscaping/518159_jubCB#21331199_f7o5C

Here is a link that might be useful: http://nfinit.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Landscaping/518159_jubCB#21331199_f7o5C


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Need a password.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Yes, it is asking for a password and the hint is "dogs names". And don't tell me that it's "UGA". If you do, then I'll have to go into Lewis Grizzard mode.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

If you can post the URL for the picture, we can make it viewable. The URL starts with http:// and ends with .jpg or .bmp. TW's URL is
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/dereckbc/267.jpg


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Just letting you know i am still here. Spending time in the help dept. learning how to put a pic on here. (No thanks to you guys! LOL ) And...........needing to help out my dear friend who is retiring from 39 years of teaching cleaning out her classroom before the school deadlines. She's a music teacher so we have the whole kip and kaboodle, props, costumes, music teaching aids, games, toys, oh my gosh, you name it. It is a war zone....

Will be back hopefully Wednesday. WITH PICS! LOL Miss you TW!!!


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Weeds are yellowing up and browning up nicely. Took a pic. You will soon see. At the school computer. Not home... Stay tuned.


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RE: Round-Up Before Tilling?

Are you all still here???? Will be posting pics tomorrow.....


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