Thanks nearandwest. Aren't you glad I don't teach Math? Guess that means I need more alfalfa pellets! Acreage is correct however.

Question stands, math fauxpas aside. :)

Both dchall_san_antonio and nearandwest - thank you very much.

I presume that a decent summary would be that we are CREATING our own topsoil by adding the alfalfa pellets, which in turn feed the cycle which you've explained, which should eliminate the green swirls & stripes in our lawn.

I am doing before & after pics - will post soon as I get visible results.

Yes, I'm serious about making healthy soil, only because if I am going to work something and spend my time on it, I want it to be as good as I can make it. This seems like a fun, creative (by comparison), healthy, natural, and wonderfully chemical free way to have good looking grass.

WRT the cost, we did a little costing last evening ourselves. We weren't given a cost estimate to add a layer of topsoil down before they did the grass, but just Googling around we came up with this:
It might be something like 548 cubic yards to cover 1 acre 4 inches deep with soil. I cut that in half - 2 inches.
274 cubic yards of soil needed. I figured how much a dumptruck would hold, and what the last yard of 70/30 topsoil cost us locally, plus delivery charges - not including labor.
The 1500 bucks seems like a bargain compared to the cost of this. And it only took me 30 minutes last night to spread 150 pounds of pellets.

Thanks again!

Oh - dchall, you asked about our sod. Sorry, I spaced that one out.
Some proprietary blend of fescue only available from this one place (of course). Some place that our builder's landscaper guy works with. One of our neighbors told me that the cost of his seed to match the sod, is about 4x normal seed cost, so I have no idea why or how, but we'll choose something that the local Ag service recommends for our area, and run with that when we overseed this fall.

You're in TX. Do you have any recommendations for this area? And yes, we'll get a soil sample soon..... thanks! We have one Master Gardener in the neighborhood too, so I can cross-reference with local information.

Thanks again, Leslie.

As shown above, my math needs help :) so knuttle, I'll let you do your own.
I used below calculation to figure my yard. I Google'd this, and got it off Yahoo Answers.

From what I figure, $1400 worth of topsoil bought in bulk would barely be a sprinkling. Might look on my yard like black pepper on top of mashed potatoes. In other words, nowhere near a solid coverage, and as dchall said, then you'd still have to fertilize. Or, if you did adequate coverage @ 2 inches, it might cover 1/8th of the yard needing help, so I'm bummed either way.
And my spreader won't "do" dirt. Pellets yes, soil no - at least that's what the Manual says.

Here's the calculation:
My teachers always told me to show my work.
4 inches = .34 feet
1 acre = 43,560 square feet
43,560 X .34 = 14,810.4 cubic feet
27 cubic feet = 1 cubic yard
14,810.4 divided by 27 = 548.53 cubic yards you will need
If you want to add less or more I think you can take it from here. Example is to save money you may only want to add 2 inches.>>

I love it when people who are passionate and deeply geekish about their topic get into lively discussions - I LEARN SO MUCH!!
Thanks! First, I presume I am "OP", as in Original Poster.

Wish I could give you an idea how much we spend on the lawn annually, but we've only been in the house since Sept 2011, when after three mowings, the lawn went dormant. I am just beginning to do anything with the lawn..... so you see that I have come to an excellent source to learn? :)

I do understand that dropping a thousand pounds of alfalfa pellets is not a cure-all, nor a one-time application, and should be part of a healthy, well-rounded lawn program. I am having a great time doing this, and am looking forward to seeing ANY type of results. And notice I did not stay in the house and call Chem-Green? LOL. I've never grown grass, but did pretty good when earlier I 'did' heirloom & OP tomatoes, so I figure - learn from the best, pay attention, do what you can based on what you learned, then DO SOMETHING about it.
So here I am. Having fun, and LOVING the numbers put forth above. I'm also doing comparisons between the two available brands of pellets in the area (that are either .30 or .32/lb, FYI). Am loving when I have great timing to get pellets out, then on the heels of putting the materials away, we get heavy rains like we did yesterday before the groundhogs, deer, and rabbits find them as food.

We are on well & septic, so while I don't mind dousing the poison ivey ropes and dense, large briar patches choking the back fence with gallons of Ortho Brush Kill Max, I'd like a reasonable lawn with as few chemicals as possible. I'll lurk here & read more, and thanks so much for your lively and very informative discussions!!!

Regards, Les.

You guyz ROCK.

Thanks nearandwest. Aren't you glad I don't teach Math? Guess that means I need more alfalfa pellets! Acreage is correct however.

Question stands, math fauxpas aside. :)

Both dchall_san_antonio and nearandwest - thank you very much.

I presume that a decent summary would be that we are CREATING our own topsoil by adding the alfalfa pellets, which in turn feed the cycle which you've explained, which should eliminate the green swirls & stripes in our lawn.

I am doing before & after pics - will post soon as I get visible results.

Yes, I'm serious about making healthy soil, only because if I am going to work something and spend my time on it, I want it to be as good as I can make it. This seems like a fun, creative (by comparison), healthy, natural, and wonderfully chemical free way to have good looking grass.

WRT the cost, we did a little costing last evening ourselves. We weren't given a cost estimate to add a layer of topsoil down before they did the grass, but just Googling around we came up with this:
It might be something like 548 cubic yards to cover 1 acre 4 inches deep with soil. I cut that in half - 2 inches.
274 cubic yards of soil needed. I figured how much a dumptruck would hold, and what the last yard of 70/30 topsoil cost us locally, plus delivery charges - not including labor.
The 1500 bucks seems like a bargain compared to the cost of this. And it only took me 30 minutes last night to spread 150 pounds of pellets.

Thanks again!

Oh - dchall, you asked about our sod. Sorry, I spaced that one out.
Some proprietary blend of fescue only available from this one place (of course). Some place that our builder's landscaper guy works with. One of our neighbors told me that the cost of his seed to match the sod, is about 4x normal seed cost, so I have no idea why or how, but we'll choose something that the local Ag service recommends for our area, and run with that when we overseed this fall.

You're in TX. Do you have any recommendations for this area? And yes, we'll get a soil sample soon..... thanks! We have one Master Gardener in the neighborhood too, so I can cross-reference with local information.

Thanks again, Leslie.

As shown above, my math needs help :) so knuttle, I'll let you do your own.
I used below calculation to figure my yard. I Google'd this, and got it off Yahoo Answers.

From what I figure, $1400 worth of topsoil bought in bulk would barely be a sprinkling. Might look on my yard like black pepper on top of mashed potatoes. In other words, nowhere near a solid coverage, and as dchall said, then you'd still have to fertilize. Or, if you did adequate coverage @ 2 inches, it might cover 1/8th of the yard needing help, so I'm bummed either way.
And my spreader won't "do" dirt. Pellets yes, soil no - at least that's what the Manual says.

Here's the calculation:
My teachers always told me to show my work.
4 inches = .34 feet
1 acre = 43,560 square feet
43,560 X .34 = 14,810.4 cubic feet
27 cubic feet = 1 cubic yard
14,810.4 divided by 27 = 548.53 cubic yards you will need
If you want to add less or more I think you can take it from here. Example is to save money you may only want to add 2 inches.>>

I love it when people who are passionate and deeply geekish about their topic get into lively discussions - I LEARN SO MUCH!!
Thanks! First, I presume I am "OP", as in Original Poster.

Wish I could give you an idea how much we spend on the lawn annually, but we've only been in the house since Sept 2011, when after three mowings, the lawn went dormant. I am just beginning to do anything with the lawn..... so you see that I have come to an excellent source to learn? :)

I do understand that dropping a thousand pounds of alfalfa pellets is not a cure-all, nor a one-time application, and should be part of a healthy, well-rounded lawn program. I am having a great time doing this, and am looking forward to seeing ANY type of results. And notice I did not stay in the house and call Chem-Green? LOL. I've never grown grass, but did pretty good when earlier I 'did' heirloom & OP tomatoes, so I figure - learn from the best, pay attention, do what you can based on what you learned, then DO SOMETHING about it.
So here I am. Having fun, and LOVING the numbers put forth above. I'm also doing comparisons between the two available brands of pellets in the area (that are either .30 or .32/lb, FYI). Am loving when I have great timing to get pellets out, then on the heels of putting the materials away, we get heavy rains like we did yesterday before the groundhogs, deer, and rabbits find them as food.

We are on well & septic, so while I don't mind dousing the poison ivey ropes and dense, large briar patches choking the back fence with gallons of Ortho Brush Kill Max, I'd like a reasonable lawn with as few chemicals as possible. I'll lurk here & read more, and thanks so much for your lively and very informative discussions!!!

Regards, Les.

You guyz ROCK.

Thanks nearandwest. Aren't you glad I don't teach Math? Guess that means I need more alfalfa pellets! Acreage is correct however.

Question stands, math fauxpas aside. :)

Both dchall_san_antonio and nearandwest - thank you very much.

I presume that a decent summary would be that we are CREATING our own topsoil by adding the alfalfa pellets, which in turn feed the cycle which you've explained, which should eliminate the green swirls & stripes in our lawn.

I am doing before & after pics - will post soon as I get visible results.

Yes, I'm serious about making healthy soil, only because if I am going to work something and spend my time on it, I want it to be as good as I can make it. This seems like a fun, creative (by comparison), healthy, natural, and wonderfully chemical free way to have good looking grass.

WRT the cost, we did a little costing last evening ourselves. We weren't given a cost estimate to add a layer of topsoil down before they did the grass, but just Googling around we came up with this:
It might be something like 548 cubic yards to cover 1 acre 4 inches deep with soil. I cut that in half - 2 inches.
274 cubic yards of soil needed. I figured how much a dumptruck would hold, and what the last yard of 70/30 topsoil cost us locally, plus delivery charges - not including labor.
The 1500 bucks seems like a bargain compared to the cost of this. And it only took me 30 minutes last night to spread 150 pounds of pellets.

Thanks again!

As shown above, my math needs help :) so knuttle, I'll let you do your own.
I used below calculation to figure my yard. I Google'd this, and got it off Yahoo Answers.

From what I figure, $1400 worth of topsoil bought in bulk would barely be a sprinkling. Might look on my yard like black pepper on top of mashed potatoes. In other words, nowhere near a solid coverage, and as dchall said, then you'd still have to fertilize. Or, if you did adequate coverage @ 2 inches, it might cover 1/8th of the yard needing help, so I'm bummed either way.
And my spreader won't "do" dirt. Pellets yes, soil no - at least that's what the Manual says.

Here's the calculation:
My teachers always told me to show my work.
4 inches = .34 feet
1 acre = 43,560 square feet
43,560 X .34 = 14,810.4 cubic feet
27 cubic feet = 1 cubic yard
14,810.4 divided by 27 = 548.53 cubic yards you will need
If you want to add less or more I think you can take it from here. Example is to save money you may only want to add 2 inches.>>

I love it when people who are passionate and deeply geekish about their topic get into lively discussions - I LEARN SO MUCH!!
Thanks! First, I presume I am "OP", as in Original Poster.

Wish I could give you an idea how much we spend on the lawn annually, but we've only been in the house since Sept 2011, when after three mowings, the lawn went dormant. I am just beginning to do anything with the lawn..... so you see that I have come to an excellent source to learn? :)

I do understand that dropping a thousand pounds of alfalfa pellets is not a cure-all, nor a one-time application, and should be part of a healthy, well-rounded lawn program. I am having a great time doing this, and am looking forward to seeing ANY type of results. And notice I did not stay in the house and call Chem-Green? LOL. I've never grown grass, but did pretty good when earlier I 'did' heirloom & OP tomatoes, so I figure - learn from the best, pay attention, do what you can based on what you learned, then DO SOMETHING about it.
So here I am. Having fun, and LOVING the numbers put forth above. I'm also doing comparisons between the two available brands of pellets in the area (that are either .30 or .32/lb, FYI). Am loving when I have great timing to get pellets out, then on the heels of putting the materials away, we get heavy rains like we did yesterday before the groundhogs, deer, and rabbits find them as food.

We are on well & septic, so while I don't mind dousing the poison ivey ropes and dense, large briar patches choking the back fence with gallons of Ortho Brush Kill Max, I'd like a reasonable lawn with as few chemicals as possible. I'll lurk here & read more, and thanks so much for your lively and very informative discussions!!!

Regards, Les.

You guyz ROCK.

Thanks nearandwest. Aren't you glad I don't teach Math? Guess that means I need more alfalfa pellets! Acreage is correct however.

Question stands, math fauxpas aside. :)

Both dchall_san_antonio and nearandwest - thank you very much.

I presume that a decent summary would be that we are CREATING our own topsoil by adding the alfalfa pellets, which in turn feed the cycle which you've explained, which should eliminate the green swirls & stripes in our lawn.

I am doing before & after pics - will post soon as I get visible results.

Yes, I'm serious about making healthy soil, only because if I am going to work something and spend my time on it, I want it to be as good as I can make it. This seems like a fun, creative (by comparison), healthy, natural, and wonderfully chemical free way to have good looking grass.

WRT the cost, we did a little costing last evening ourselves. We weren't given a cost estimate to add a layer of topsoil down before they did the grass, but just Googling around we came up with this:
It might be something like 548 cubic yards to cover 1 acre 4 inches deep with soil. I cut that in half - 2 inches.
274 cubic yards of soil needed. I figured how much a dumptruck would hold, and what the last yard of 70/30 topsoil cost us locally, plus delivery charges - not including labor.
The 1500 bucks seems like a bargain compared to the cost of this. And it only took me 30 minutes last night to spread 150 pounds of pellets.

Thanks again!

Oh - dchall, you asked about our sod. Sorry, I spaced that one out.
Some proprietary blend of fescue only available from this one place (of course). Some place that our builder's landscaper guy works with. One of our neighbors told me that the cost of his seed to match the sod, is about 4x normal seed cost, so I have no idea why or how, but we'll choose something that the local Ag service recommends for our area, and run with that when we overseed this fall.

You're in TX. Do you have any recommendations for this area? And yes, we'll get a soil sample soon..... thanks! We have one Master Gardener in the neighborhood too, so I can cross-reference with local information.

Thanks again, Leslie.

As shown above, my math needs help :) so knuttle, I'll let you do your own.
I used below calculation to figure my yard. I Google'd this, and got it off Yahoo Answers.

From what I figure, $1400 worth of topsoil bought in bulk would barely be a sprinkling. Might look on my yard like black pepper on top of mashed potatoes. In other words, nowhere near a solid coverage, and as dchall said, then you'd still have to fertilize. Or, if you did adequate coverage @ 2 inches, it might cover 1/8th of the yard needing help, so I'm bummed either way.
And my spreader won't "do" dirt. Pellets yes, soil no - at least that's what the Manual says.

Here's the calculation:
My teachers always told me to show my work.
4 inches = .34 feet
1 acre = 43,560 square feet
43,560 X .34 = 14,810.4 cubic feet
27 cubic feet = 1 cubic yard
14,810.4 divided by 27 = 548.53 cubic yards you will need
If you want to add less or more I think you can take it from here. Example is to save money you may only want to add 2 inches.>>

I love it when people who are passionate and deeply geekish about their topic get into lively discussions - I LEARN SO MUCH!!
Thanks! First, I presume I am "OP", as in Original Poster.

Wish I could give you an idea how much we spend on the lawn annually, but we've only been in the house since Sept 2011, when after three mowings, the lawn went dormant. I am just beginning to do anything with the lawn..... so you see that I have come to an excellent source to learn? :)

I do understand that dropping a thousand pounds of alfalfa pellets is not a cure-all, nor a one-time application, and should be part of a healthy, well-rounded lawn program. I am having a great time doing this, and am looking forward to seeing ANY type of results. And notice I did not stay in the house and call Chem-Green? LOL. I've never grown grass, but did pretty good when earlier I 'did' heirloom & OP tomatoes, so I figure - learn from the best, pay attention, do what you can based on what you learned, then DO SOMETHING about it.
So here I am. Having fun, and LOVING the numbers put forth above. I'm also doing comparisons between the two available brands of pellets in the area (that are either .30 or .32/lb, FYI). Am loving when I have great timing to get pellets out, then on the heels of putting the materials away, we get heavy rains like we did yesterday before the groundhogs, deer, and rabbits find them as food.

We are on well & septic, so while I don't mind dousing the poison ivey ropes and dense, large briar patches choking the back fence with gallons of Ortho Brush Kill Max, I'd like a reasonable lawn with as few chemicals as possible. I'll lurk here & read more, and thanks so much for your lively and very informative discussions!!!

Regards, Les.

You guyz ROCK.

Thanks nearandwest. Aren't you glad I don't teach Math? Guess that means I need more alfalfa pellets! Acreage is correct however.

Question stands, math fauxpas aside. :)

Both dchall_san_antonio and nearandwest - thank you very much.

I presume that a decent summary would be that we are CREATING our own topsoil by adding the alfalfa pellets, which in turn feed the cycle which you've explained, which should eliminate the green swirls & stripes in our lawn.

I am doing before & after pics - will post soon as I get visible results.

Yes, I'm serious about making healthy soil, only because if I am going to work something and spend my time on it, I want it to be as good as I can make it. This seems like a fun, creative (by comparison), healthy, natural, and wonderfully chemical free way to have good looking grass.

WRT the cost, we did a little costing last evening ourselves. We weren't given a cost estimate to add a layer of topsoil down before they did the grass, but just Googling around we came up with this:
It might be something like 548 cubic yards to cover 1 acre 4 inches deep with soil. I cut that in half - 2 inches.
274 cubic yards of soil needed. I figured how much a dumptruck would hold, and what the last yard of 70/30 topsoil cost us locally, plus delivery charges - not including labor.
The 1500 bucks seems like a bargain compared to the cost of this. And it only took me 30 minutes last night to spread 150 pounds of pellets.

Thanks again!

Oh - dchall, you asked about our sod. Sorry, I spaced that one out.
Some proprietary blend of fescue only available from this one place (of course). Some place that our builder's landscaper guy works with. One of our neighbors told me that the cost of his seed to match the sod, is about 4x normal seed cost, so I have no idea why or how, but we'll choose something that the local Ag service recommends for our area, and run with that when we overseed this fall.

You're in TX. Do you have any recommendations for this area? And yes, we'll get a soil sample soon..... thanks! We have one Master Gardener in the neighborhood too, so I can cross-reference with local information.

Thanks again, Leslie.

As shown above, my math needs help :) so knuttle, I'll let you do your own.
I used below calculation to figure my yard. I Google'd this, and got it off Yahoo Answers.

From what I figure, $1400 worth of topsoil bought in bulk would barely be a sprinkling. Might look on my yard like black pepper on top of mashed potatoes. In other words, nowhere near a solid coverage, and as dchall said, then you'd still have to fertilize. Or, if you did adequate coverage @ 2 inches, it might cover 1/8th of the yard needing help, so I'm bummed either way.
And my spreader won't "do" dirt. Pellets yes, soil no - at least that's what the Manual says.

Here's the calculation:
My teachers always told me to show my work.
4 inches = .34 feet
1 acre = 43,560 square feet
43,560 X .34 = 14,810.4 cubic feet
27 cubic feet = 1 cubic yard
14,810.4 divided by 27 = 548.53 cubic yards you will need
If you want to add less or more I think you can take it from here. Example is to save money you may only want to add 2 inches.>>

I love it when people who are passionate and deeply geekish about their topic get into lively discussions - I LEARN SO MUCH!!
Thanks! First, I presume I am "OP", as in Original Poster.

Wish I could give you an idea how much we spend on the lawn annually, but we've only been in the house since Sept 2011, when after three mowings, the lawn went dormant. I am just beginning to do anything with the lawn..... so you see that I have come to an excellent source to learn? :)

I do understand that dropping a thousand pounds of alfalfa pellets is not a cure-all, nor a one-time application, and should be part of a healthy, well-rounded lawn program. I am having a great time doing this, and am looking forward to seeing ANY type of results. And notice I did not stay in the house and call Chem-Green? LOL. I've never grown grass, but did pretty good when earlier I 'did' heirloom & OP tomatoes, so I figure - learn from the best, pay attention, do what you can based on what you learned, then DO SOMETHING about it.
So here I am. Having fun, and LOVING the numbers put forth above. I'm also doing comparisons between the two available brands of pellets in the area (that are either .30 or .32/lb, FYI). Am loving when I have great timing to get pellets out, then on the heels of putting the materials away, we get heavy rains like we did yesterday before the groundhogs, deer, and rabbits find them as food.

We are on well & septic, so while I don't mind dousing the poison ivey ropes and dense, large briar patches choking the back fence with gallons of Ortho Brush Kill Max, I'd like a reasonable lawn with as few chemicals as possible. I'll lurk here & read more, and thanks so much for your lively and very informative discussions!!!

Regards, Les.

You guyz ROCK.

I will make my small contribution and then step aside. At the beginning of your post, your post reads "Out of our 3 acres, about 1.25 (5k sq.ft or so) needs mowing." Since there are 43,560 sq.ft. in an acre, your 1.25 acres equals closer to 55,000 sq.ft., not 5,000 sq.ft.

If you apply alfalfa at 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet every 4 weeks, your soil will be 1,000% better in about 2 months and continue to get better the rest of the season.

Having said that, since you seem to be serious about your lawn, you should invest in a good soil test from Logan Labs in Ohio. Their good one is $20. It is much better than anything you are likely to get at a local university. Post your soil test results here to get help interpreting them as well as suggestions for where to buy some of the micronutrients they might recommend.

Before you think about seeding in the fall, what kind of sod did you get?

You mentioned Weed-N-Feed. Weed-N-Feed is not a great product. Save your money and get better results by fertilizing with fertilizer and spot spraying weeds with a liquid herbicide designed for your specific weeds. Weed-B-Gone is the brand I always mention but only because I don't have to go into great detail. The name tells the story. Spectricide is another great brand. Any product with 2-4,d is the one you want for broadleaf weeds (unless you have St Augustine grass).

Recommendation for proper application of alfalfa pellets is 20 lbs./1000 sq.ft.

20 x 55 = 1,100 lbs. needed per week for 4 weeks

50 lbs. Alfalfa pellets = $16 at Tractor Supply in my area. Obviously your area will differ I assume.

1,100/50 = 22 x 16 = $352.00 per week x 4 weeks = $1,408.00

I'm just making you aware of the cost for a proper application. If you are going to do it, then do it right!!!

Again, the cost of alfalfa pellets in your area may be significantly different (hopefully less). If you are going to commit to a program, you need to be aware of all the variables. As was mentioned earlier, your soil will be much healthier with an alfalfa program.

Could someone compare the results of spreading $1400 worth of alfalfa pellets per 1.25 acres vs. covering the 1.25 acres with $1400 worth of topsoil.

Would the quality of the lawn be significantly different/

knuttle,
after you go to the hassle of spreading the topsoil, you will still have to fertilize it. Alfalfa is fertilizer.

wwwonderw, hopefully your master gardeners are better than those here. I'm sure they are very nice people, but they are hamstrung by the parochial university system. Now we have a splinter group of former master gardeners who have started their own service organization. They are much better.

Before anyone puts 2 inches of anything down, PLEASE, lets talk about it. Two inches of soil can cost you your house if you don't know what you're doing. Maybe that is extreme but it is a very serious issue.

Can I weigh in on something that is what I believe is an incorrect assumption here that isn't being discussed? I read this thread several times, and I think that there is an assumption that a one-time application of Alfalfa is going to lead to a permanent positive change in the soil. Ummmm, no. There are two million lbs of soil in an acre measured to 6" deep (the growing zone). When you apply something like Alfalfa, you get 2 or 3 benefits: (1) some Nitrogen is released, which acts as a fertilizer, (2) the Alfalfa releases a natural growth hormone called Triacontanol, which causes increased growth for a period of 6-10 weeks, and (3) the Alfalfa breaks down into organic matter.

Notice that 2 of the 3 benefits are short-term. The organic matter ("OM") item is the only long-term benefit, and the OP needs to understand what many of the other posters know and may be assuming the OP understands. I don't believe the OP is aware of it, though. A one-time application of Alfalfa is only going to yield a microscopic amount of finished OM to the soil - figure 3%-4% of the original Alfalfa applied. Let's use 3.5% and go down the middle...

20 lbs/K of Alfalfa on an acre is roughly 860 lbs of Alfalfa
860 lbs of Alfalfa at 3.5% finished OM is 30.1 lbs of finished OM
30 lbs of OM in 2,000,000 lbs of soil is a rise in OM% of 0.0015%

While Alfalfa is a great organic thing to use in the soil, it has to be part of a long-term program to improve the soil. A single application of Alfalfa or any other organics will not permanently change the soil to something it isn't already. I put down literally TONS of organics on my acre each year (and David knows that is no exaggeration) and I generally see a 0.5% increase in OM each year (and that's a good year).

There is not an assumption on my part that a one-time application of Alfalfa pellets will lead to a permanent positive change in the soil. The use of Alfalfa pellets is only one aspect of a TOTAL organic program used annually that will cause a soil environment to become more healthy and active for those who choose to implement such a program. My participation in this thread was to provide the OP with accurate information related to the correct amount of area and the cost of a product related to that area.

As beneficial information for the OP, would you be willing to say how much you spend annually on organic feeding to manage your turfgrass soil?

Another point, this statement: "I presume that a decent summary would be that we are CREATING our own topsoil by adding the alfalfa pellets, which in turn feed the cycle which you've explained, which should eliminate the green swirls & stripes in our lawn. " is incorrect. Alfalfa will not turn into topsoil. Soil is composed mostly of tiny rock particles and sand as well as minerals, and a small percent of organic matter. Addition of alfalfa will enrich your topsoil to a degree, but it has nothing to do with creating more topsoil.

"As beneficial information for the OP, would you be willing to say how much you spend annually on organic feeding to manage your turfgrass soil?"

Ridiculous sums. But as others who know me from other forums know, I am not normal. Soil science and lawns are my primary hobby and I'm not above applying Milorganite at double-rate every week at some times of the year. I used three tons of Milorganite (or equivalent) alone last year, plus lots of other stuff.

Yeah...no. One app of alfalfa is not an organic program. It is a start. You still should see results in 3 weeks, but it needs to be reapplied periodically. Three X per year is minimal for most grasses. If you can only afford to fertilize three times, make it Memorial Day, Labor Day, and Thanksgiving. If you really want to improve the soil biology, apply more often.

Andy is not shy or forgiving about reminding us of the importance of soil chemistry. I trust him and MorpheusPA to be telling the truth when they remind me that getting the soil chemistry corrected is paramount and prerequisite to getting the most benefit out of your fertilizer no matter whether you use chemical or organic.

Andy, you have taken the first step to recovery. You have admitted that you are not normal, and that you have an addiction to lawn care. Wait a minute, did you say you used three tons of Milorganite in one year???? Will someone please take this man to lawn care rehab IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!

I have no interest in recovery - the lawn has gotten so dense that it is like mowing steel wool, and dark, dark, dark.

Andy, I think you can recognize that I am poking humor into the conversation. That's just how I roll. But being more on topic, how long have you been implementing an organic feeding program into your lawn? Obviously, it didn't develop over night. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.

I have been doing it partially for 8 years, and fully for 5 years. And I don't mind the poking humor at all. On another forum I moderate the Soils Forum and we get down to the nitty-gritty details of the chemistry behind all the soil stuff. It works well if you plug away at it for a few years. My lawn only gets a couple of hours of real sun, and yet KBG is doing well. And you'll get color that you just can't get from synthetics.

You've seen what Tiemco can do by paying attention to the soil - here's another example:

{{gwi:93346}}

You can see the blue tones in the lawnmower wheel tracks, but the tones really show up in a closer picture:

{{gwi:93347}}

OMG Andy! I haven't seen a pic of your lawn in years. That's incredible! I remember it as a sort of a, well, patch of weeds. More like many patches of weeds.

Now would be a good time to comment on the value of soil testing. MorpheusPA swears his improvement is not due to the organics but mostly due to the soil amendments suggested by the testing. Could you comment on that and what you applied based on your soil test.

Thanks, David!! And yes, it used to be a mess. But I don't subscribe to a "this vs that" method of trying to attribute success (or failure) to a single component. I've come to realize that the more I study things, the more the interrelationships are the critical items. In other words, it's not "soil chemistry vs soil biology", but how the two of them interact and support each other. A good soil chemistry allows a great biology to grow, which acts as a reservoir for food for the lawn. This avoids the "yo-yo effect" that we see in the regular long-term use of synthetics. A good chemistry provides lots of nutrients in good ratios to each other and massive growth.

To answer your question about what I did, I concentrated on getting Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur and the micronutrients (Iron, Zinc, Manganese, Copper and Boron) settled in the right proportions to each other. Notice that I ignored Nitrogen and pH. Once the other items are settled properly, the pH will find the "sweet spot" all by itself, and anything organic supplied will supply Nitrogen into "the bank".

It's not a recipe for making the lawn (or garden) look great next week, but the soil will almost manage itself if you get the chemistry and biology working together. At this point, I can feed it some Milorganite or Soy Bean Meal and it will handle the rest all by itself. Then I spend my time trying to help others that want to do the same, or chasing the deer out of my Hosta.

This thread is really great and extremely helpful to a new gardener like me :)

I have a question for andy about this statement:

"I concentrated on getting Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur and the micronutrients (Iron, Zinc, Manganese, Copper and Boron) settled in the right proportions to each other"

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "right proportions"? What do you use and on what schedule?

DandyLioness: it's the thing that nobody tells you. The commercial products are basically one-size-fits-all. Which really means "one size fits nobody well".

See that list of nutrients and micronutrients? Well, for a top-quality soil, some of those nutrients should be in a range of 7:1 to 10:1 of each other. And other ones should be in a ratio of 1000:1 to each other. For the ones that are in the range of 7:1 to 10:1 of each other, the soil will act "tight" if it's lower than 7:1 and will be a waster of money if they're more than 10:1. And WHEN they are applied can be an issue too. Some of the nutrients complement each other ("synergistic" - good to add at the same time), and others cancel each other out (antagonistic). Also, raising pH isn't as simple as "add Lime". Which Lime, and how much Potassium (which also raises pH) shortly after the Lime.

It's not something to concern yourself with if you're looking for an OK lawn, but when you want to really hit it out of the park, everything counts. On another website, we get into all the gory little details. If you're interested in that kind of stuff, just google my name, MorpheusPA's name, Tiemco's name.

I'll bet you're sorry you asked, right?

dandylioness, if you have not mastered proper watering, mowing, and fertilizing to get a low-hassle lawn, then you should spend the rest of the summer working on that. It's okay to read ahead, but what Andy is talking about is what I call Lawn Care 201. Master Lawn Care 101 first. 201 is not that much harder but it does require soil testing and very specific treatments. Most people are very happy once they master the basics. If you want the lawn of the month, then go for 201.

You can learn more about it at that site he suggests.

Somehow i forgot to check the "email me" box when I last posted and completely lost this thread. Plus it's been an incredibly busy couple of months so I apologize for my extremely late reply.

I'm happy to hear that Watering, mowing, and fertilizing are the basics, because it can sometimes get confusing on these forums what is and is not absolutely crucial to master right away.

So in light of this, and to get back to the original topic a bit, what is the proper way to apply fertilizer, of we choose to use alfalfa as fertilizer? Is it okay to start applying now, once a week...but until when? Is there any kind of temperature restriction to applying it? Can someone give me some specifics on proper application and if I am right to assume that alfalfa is an organic alternative for fertilizer?

Thanks!