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lellenh29

Newly planted Bahia lawn. Help!

lellenh29
9 years ago

Hello! I need some advice. First a little background info on my very frustrating venture of seeding a new lawn. We live in lower Baldwin Co. AL, about 4 mi from the Gulf. Despite our best efforts to care for it, our approx 1200sf back yard was in terrible shape with more bare spots and weeds growing than grass. We do have dogs but I don't think they are the only reason the lawn failed. It was already looking pretty sad when we moved in in 2008. I believe that the contractors sodded the yard with some very low quality centipede grass back in 2005 when the house was built.

So, my husband and I have worked very hard to start the lawn anew. We killed off what was left growing back there, tilled and amended the soil, added 2-3 inches of fresh topsoil and then prepped with seed starting granular fertilizer. After tons of research, I decided on a mixture of seeds that I thought would work best for weather zone, high traffic and disease tolerance. ( I know, I know you might be thinking we prob should have just gone with sod in the first place. That might be so. But we already poured this much time, care and money into it at this point that I'm determined to see it through.) I paid pretty penny for some high quality Argentine Bahia seed. Also threw in some midnight KY bluegrass (supposedly more suited for the hot, humid south) because I do have one area that gets a good bit of shade.

My problem is that the yard is on a gentle slope and the weather did not cooperate one bit. Three days after the first seed application in April, we got really super abnormally heavy rains and most of the seed washed out (although it had been raked in and covered with a shallow layer of compost.) I waited about 12days or so to see what would come up, which was a big disappointment. So I re-ordered the Bahia, leveled out the several small gouges that the massive rainfall drainage carved out and reseeded again. Raked it in. Again. Spread a thin layer of compost over it. Again. And this time went over it all with sand in the spreader in efforts of holding the seed in place. Added a little straw on top for good measure. Sure enough, 2 days later came another all-day torrential downpour (the forecast was only calling for a 60% chance of light showers.) There was seed washout, but not as extensively as the first time. So I left it to grow, figuring I would surely have enough growth this time around. It has been on a regular daily watering schedule when there isn't rain.

So fast forward to now, over a month past the second seeding. It's in need of it's third mowing. There is good growth of what seed survived the washouts. The grass is in differing stages of life but still pretty tender for the most part. And it's sparse enough that I'm starting to see a good amount of weeds encroach. Grrrrr. Bahia isn't a quick spreading grass (I know now.) So I feel like I might need to put some more seed down? I'm just wondering how much (I have a few pounds left from last bag I bought) and how do I disturb the ground so that it has enough soil over it to germinate without damaging the young grass that is already there? Raking is out of the question. I have one of those spikey rolling aerators on a stick, but it is pretty destructive to the grass also. Any tips or input will be greatly appreciated!

P.S. I now have a really thick, beautiful, expensive stand of new grass mixed in with the weeds in the DITCH behind my privacy fence that separates my property from the woods! Lol, grrrrrr

Comments (6)

  • botanicalbill
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With bahia, it never hurts to put more seed down. The seeds will become viable if you leave the seed heads on for 2 months or longer.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'll make a list here of the mistakes I see you made.

    1. Used bahia instead of St Augustine or bermuda.
    2. Used Kentucky bluegrass instead of St Augustine or bermuda.
    3. Seeded in the spring exactly when crabgrass seed is germinating.
    4. Rototilled.
    5. Added topsoil.
    6. Added sand.
    7. Covered seed with compost.
    8. Added straw.

    Grass is not vegetables. Grass seed needs exactly zero inches of anything on top of it. It needs to be rolled down into the surface so that the top half of the seed is exposed to the sun and the other half is pressed into or onto, the soil. You can rent a roller to do that but you and your husband could just walk over the seed faster than you could find a roller for rent.

    If in a few weeks you decide you made some mistakes, please consider seeding with bermuda. Summer heat is the time to seed bermuda. You might also consider removing the topsoil and sand you brought in. Determine how it has changed your drainage first and consider that when removing soil. Since you're on a slope it might not make any difference. What you want is to have the soil fall away from the elevation of the sill of the house. First the sill should be 4 inches above the level of the soil. Then the soil should fall away from that level such that it is 10 inches lower than the sill out at 10 feet away from the house. This is to prevent the home from flooding and to ensure water flows away from the house coming off the roof.

    When the grass comes in you will notice the dogs have worn a path through it. You can turn that into a feature by building a walkway out of stone or wood which follows the path. That would be a nice fall project.

  • lellenh29
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the advice!

    Dchall, here's my thinking behind the mistakes you said I made. We were instructed by a couple of landscaper friends and my father (who worked for a lawn maintenance company for several years) to till it up because the soil was hard as a brick bat. They think that was what led to the decline of the existing grass. We used a plug areator on it when we moved in in 08' which obviously didn't help much. We have used mostly organic methods of fertilization and disease control over the years. We have a lot of clay in the soil here. We only added about 1-2 inches of topsoil. We used one of those heavy stand-on mini bulldozer thingies and were sure to go over the entire lawn with the barrel lowered to pack and level it. I could be wrong, but I don't think that we changed the drainage too much. Overall, there was zero build up of new soil around the foundation of our home and water flows away freely without puddling. The only reason I added the compost on top was because I was concerned about washout (and it wasn't much, most of the seed was still uncovered. Hence the need for round two.) We did do a lot of stomping around in the yard to tamp the seeds down. I only added the sand and straw to hold down the second batch of seed bc of the washout I experienced from the first. (The drainage ditch was already well over-seeded, lol.) I honestly think that was the only thing that saved the second batch from washing out just as bad as the first. The rains that we've received this spring have been uncharacteristic for this area. It's usually showers shortly with clearing, not torrential, set-in rain fronts. I chose Argentine Bahaia over St Augustine bc my parents (who live 2 miles from me) have had terrible luck with disease and die-out of their St Augustine. And they have sodded with it 4 times in the shady part of their lawn and it dies every time. I didn't want to pour the money into it that they had only to be disappointed. So I was hoping that putting a little extra hard work and time into the initial establishment of a different, more drought tolerant, disease resistant, low maintenance type of grass would turn out to be worth the effort. I only threw in the Kbg (its one of the hybrids that is mixed with texas bg) in hopes that it might work for the area under my shade tree. This area does get a little sun in the morning and evening since its only one tree.

    I'm not willing to start anew at this point. But thank you for the suggestion.

    I will put more seed down and hope it fills in some more. My question then is, considering what you said above Dchall, should I just put it down without roughing up the soil in any way? Just throw it down, stomp it in and hope it stays put? I know the new grass will hold the seed in place some, but I'm just concerned that if I don't rough up the soil the seed will end up in the ditch again next time it rains.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I want to be as discouraging as I can possibly be and yet be polite. In my opinion bahia is a catastrophe for the following reasons.

    It tolerates a little shade, but will thin out and die away on the north, east, and west sides of your tree, fences, and house.

    It must be reseeded every year...in the spring. I don't have a problem with reseeding annually, but spring is a bad time, because that is when crabgrass germinates.

    The new seed should be covered with soil every spring (sorry but I did not realize bahia was different in that regard in my previous message). Adding soil every spring leads to inches upon inches of too much soil in the yard. Furthermore the soil will become bumpier and bumpier as you add soil unevenly.

    It is not disease free. It gets the same diseases as St Augustine.

    It sends up big seed heads making it look shaggy and weedy.

    If all you want is something green, then this will do.

    As for your father's diseased St Augustine, he needs to apply ordinary corn meal (check your local feed stores) at a rate of 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. If the disease seems to persist over the years, I would apply that once a month for the rest of this growing season. It will clear up with the first application, but the disease might be deeper in the soil. In fact corn meal is a biological fungal control. The corn itself only feeds the microbes already in the soil. Then those microbes will control the disease for you. Since it is a biological approach, the effects will be negated if any chemical fungal controls are used. Also, by using corn meal he will not need any other fertilizers or fungal control. Corn meal is a relatively weak organic fertilizer, but monthly apps at that rate will give him a very dark green lawn.

  • lellenh29
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the tip on the St Augustine. I will def pass that on.

    So, considering what you said about Bahia, what if I put down a different type of grass seed down on what I already have growing? What would you suggest? Centipede was an absolute failure so that's a big no for me. I know you mentioned Bermuda, I might consider that, but have heard from a few different people that it is a nightmare when it comes to invasiveness and upkeep. What about zoysia(so expensive though!) I would even consider a groundcover. I really want something that looks like a lawn, can crowd out weeds, is wear tolerant and as disease tolerant as possible. The high humidity here almost garauntees that I will have to battle any disease that the plant is susceptible to. And I would rather not have to cut it every three days. Honestly doesn't seem to be much that works this far south. I dunno, maybe I'm asking too much.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Floratam variety of St Augustine was developed in Florida and Texas to address the issues of both states. The one fault it has it cold tolerance; however, in actual use it seems to survive as far north as Dallas with little problem. Now if you have several days straight with high temps below 20 degrees, then you might have a problem. I doubt you see that in southern Alabama. They only see it in Dallas once every 10 or 20 years.

    Floratam loves full sun. I have it in heavy shade under a giant live oak, and it survives, but it is not exactly dominating. I also have it in half day full sun and it is amazing.

    Floratam was selected for disease resistance. Here is the thing about disease in St Augustine: I can induce a disease in any St Aug by covering it up with something like cardboard or anything that covers it like a blanket. My wife likes to throw garden clippings out onto the grass. If I don't watch her and clean it up, a disease will start after about 3 days. That used to be horrible before I discovered corn meal. I put sod after sod on the same diseased soil and watched the new sod die before it rooted. After corn meal I have not had that problem since. So in order to prevent the disease you have to water it properly (see below) and never let anything blanket it and cut off the fresh air.

    Watering is important for proper root development, weed control, and disease control. All lawns should be watered in the same way. The mantra is deep and infrequent. Deep means one full inch applied all at one time. Infrequent means allow the soil surface to dry out completely to the point where the grass is almost wilting before you water. When this happens depends on YOUR situation regarding temperature, wind, humidity, soil type, shade, cloudy days, grass type, mowing height, and a few other criteria. But in a practical sense, the advice is not much different between Vermont and Phoenix and Orlando. In general...
    with temperatures in the 100s or above, water once every 5 days.
    With temps in the 90s, water once every 7 days.
    With temps in the 80s, water once every two weeks.
    With temps in the 70s, water once every 3 weeks.
    With temps in the 60s and below, water once a month.

    If you have full shade like I do in San Antonio, I still water once a week in the heat of summer, but I only water 0.3 to 0.5 inches instead of a full inch. If I lived in Las Vegas in the summer, I would water 1.5 inches once very 5 days.

    Mow St Augustine at your mower's highest setting - always. There is never any reason to lower it for St Aug. Tall grass uses much less water than short grass. Tall grass grows much deeper roots than short grass. Those deep roots will be able to pull water from deeper in the soil structure from that rain that came by 3 weeks ago. In order to demonstrate that tall St Aug needs less water, I am doing an experiment in George West, Texas on the edge of the Texas desert. I have not mowed parts of my lawn since October of 2011. 2011 was a moist year but 2012 and 2013 were both very dry years. There is one area in the shade of an oak and my house which has not been artificially watered once since then, and the grass looks great. I don't recommend you let your grass grow up to 32 inches high, but it can and will survive nicely if you do. In San Antonio I mow St Aug at the highest setting every 2-3 weeks.

    The last thing I do and have done since 2002 is use only organic fertilizer. I started using corn meal back then and have moved up to a little higher performance with alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow). The biggest advantage I see for using these materials is the improvement to the health of the soil. When I was using chemical fertilizers it seemed that sometimes the fertilizer didn't work. Of course with chemical ferts you can't just reapply right away, so the next time I fertilized I applied it heavier. That seemed to work, but I was on a see-saw with the fertilizer. Once I went to organics, it always worked. With organics, if you missed a spot or are not happy with the results, you can reapply right away if you want to and not fear damaging the grass. One of the gurus on another forum experimented with extremely heavy doses of soybean meal and Milorganite. He applied both at a rate of 50 pounds per 1,000 square feet every weekend all through the growing season. Here is a picture of his lawn taken in the summer of 2011.

    {{gwi:81154}}

    All the other lawns in that picture were the original builder grade Kentucky bluegrass, but his is an improved variety. But if he was not taking proper care, his would look just like theirs. He lives in eastern Pennsylvania and does all the things I suggested above for caring for St Augustine. But he was also overdosing on organic fertilizer. But back to you - St Aug can be fertilized 3x per year with organics. I prefer 5x per year on Washington's Birthday, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, and Thanksgiving. These dates would work for you, too. I use them because they are easy to remember and I'm always home.

    St Aug wears fairly well in that it can recover from some trampling. We have a new puppy and he has worn a path in the grass leading to our side yard. I am confident that he'll settle down someday and the grass will return. Bermuda and St Augustine are both good about refilling after wear.

    Now having given you the sales pitch for St Augustine, bermuda, specifically hybrid bermuda, makes a good lawn, but it is a higher maintenance turf than St Aug. Bermuda needs to be mowed 2x per week and fertilized heavily once a month if you want to to look nice and have minimal weeds. If you prefer low maintenance, then St Aug should be lower maintenance for you.

    I used to have an annual conference in Mobile and Pensacola and found the St Aug lawns to be beautiful. I did not see a disease problem, although I wasn't looking for that specifically. I realize you are spooked by your father's lawn, but give the corn meal a try and see how that works. You have time to wait for that to clear up. Apply the corn meal now and check back again on the 4th of July. I suspect he'll notice the improvement by then. You should not have to live in fear of a St Aug lawn. I have been there, but since I have discovered the corn meal "trick", I obviously fully embrace it now.