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njitgrad

question about use of JG products

njitgrad
10 years ago

Can JG's Summer Survival be applied at the same time as 25-0-3 Weed & Feed? I am planning on doing this in early July when my kids are away for a week. I am hoping I can take care of two birds with one stone without stressing my lawn.

This week I am planning on putting down one of JG's organic fertilizers.

Comments (14)

  • tiemco
    10 years ago

    Synthetic fertilizer should not be used in July in New Jersey, on cool season turf. The Summer Survival is a slow release product, which is better than quick, but there is still no reason to provide synthetic nitrogen during the summer, especially weed and feed. Weed and feed should be avoided in spring, summer, and fall. It's only purpose is to make more profits for the lawn care companies. If you want to kill weeds, use a weed killer but be sure the temps aren't above what is recommended on the label.

  • njitgrad
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Okay, thanks.

    So what would you recommend I use on July 8th to control both weeds and insects? That is the day my kids go away for a week so I don't need to worry about them horsing around in the yard.

    To date (this season) I have only applied the JG Crabgrass Preventer with Greenup back in mid-March. Nothing else since.

    I will be putting down a JG organic fertilizer (either the Natural Beauty Organic Lawn Fertilizer 10-0-1 or the Organic Lawn Fertilizer 8-3-1) this week since it has been almost three months since I fed my lawn.

  • tiemco
    10 years ago

    For killing weeds use the appropriate herbicide. Weed B Gone Max does a good job with most broadleaf weeds, but be sure to read the label since you shouldn't apply when temperatures are above a certain level. Use a tank sprayer for spot spraying weeds, or a hose end sprayer if your lawn is full of weeds. I have never used insecticide, not sure why you would, but there are products you can apply that don't have a fertilizer component. You can go ahead and use the organic fertilizer now, or anytime really since organic fertilizer won't give you the type of growth synthetics do, especially in the summer months.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    Fully agree with tiemco. What insects do you have? If you are just trying to be preventative, don't. Your lawn is full of microscopic insects which are very beneficial to the lawn and an integral part of the food chain. If you have a specific insect target, what is it. Maybe there are alternatives.

    What kind of grass do you have?
    How much shade?
    How high/low are you mowing?
    What is your watering regimen (frequency and duration)?

    Your answers to these questions might indicate solutions or other issues.

  • enigma7
    10 years ago

    3 months since you fed your lawn? Yikes! As others mentioned dump the weed and feed and use a pre-emergent that doesn't feed the weeds in March. I'm in SE PA and JUST fertilized about a week ago for the first time this year. For your grass/location you want to heavily fall feed (preferably a couple times), and then some of us winter feed in late December to tide over the grass until the late spring feeding.

    This gives the grass a fantastic recovery from the harsh summer, good food reserves for the winter, and will actually green up really nicely early spring. You then get the double-whammy of killing the weeds with the Pre-M, and they are starving as well since there is no easily available fertilizer to grow aggressively.

    HTH

  • njitgrad
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Is there a granular weed killer you can recommend? I prefer that over any spray type. My front lawn looks nice for June in terms of green however its loaded with clovers. My backyard is not as green, even some spotty areas that are turning brown, but not as big of a clover issue. I haven't watered much since May because of the rainfall we've been receiving. I always mow tall with setting 3 on my newer Honda HRX217HXA.

    Oh and that damn nut sedge is starting to work its way back into the lawn again. I though I killed it off last year. Went through so many bottles of nut sedge killer last summer. It works but not a permanent solution.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    I never recommend granular herbicides. There are two reasons: first is the areas where there are no weeds are wasted. Second is the granular herbicide is not nice to the insects and microbes in the yard - the entire yard. When you spot spray you are only misting the leaves of the weeds. The impact on the adjacent bugs and microbes is minimal. With granules you are drenching the herbicide down into the soil where it works without regard to the beneficial critters in the area.

    Lots of rain and turning brown??? Hmmm, are the brown spot in circles by chance?

  • enigma7
    10 years ago

    I also do not recommend the granular products. For clover there is a magical product called Ortho Clover and Oxalis killer with active ingredient Triclopyr. This stuff truly is magical because (in lawns with large amounts of clover) it becomes a weed and feed product. It works slower than most herbicides and typically takes 2-3 weeks to see final results. Small brown spots will appear on the clover leaves, get slightly worse, and then seemingly overnight they just melt away.

    The feed part comes from all the nitrogen that is suddenly available to the surrounding grass (and other weeds) from the dead clover. It really is one of those few products I've used over the years that just does what it says extremely well.

    You can get a bottle of the concentrate for HTH

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    Clover will come back from seed, so keep that product on hand.

  • enigma7
    10 years ago

    Dchall is right, but it should be much less than what was present before and unless really bare the grass will fill in quickly with the nitrogen boost and sudden increase in sunlight. Also the young clover is MUCH more susceptible to the Triclopyr than mature clover IME. I normally mix up a combo batch of Ortho WBG Max and the Clover killer mentioned previously (I also include Tenacity now that I have it, but previously only used the Ortho combo). They are compatible in the same mix so you can spray once and get double coverage. I normally grid out my lawn (in my head) and then walk slightly overlapping strips so it's nice to not have to remember where one weed is versus another. I can just spot spray (or in your case blanket spray) without worrying about what's in the tank.

    And again search for the concentrates of each type. They are much cheaper per gallon and just as effective when mixed properly. You're just paying for water and shipping weight with the pre-mixed stuff.

  • njitgrad
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for the advice so far, I really appreciate it.

    I've had several people in the past recommend applying a granular weed killer to a wet lawn (so the granules stick to the leaves) over using a liquid. Those granules that fall through the turf end up acting as weed preventer. Have I been getting bad advice?

    Regarding the insect killer, my primary concern is ticks. My neighbor's daughter plays with my kids in our backyard and she ended up with a tick on her ear last week, but we'll never know if that tick came from my property.

    I will post a video of my lawn this weekend to hopefully get some general advice for a maintenance plan for a kid and pet friendly lawn moving forward.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    Ticks are a hard insect to beat. Once the soil warms up, the ticks climb out of the soil, up on the plants, and do not go back to the soil. So applying insecticide to the soil does not work in the spring/summer/fall.

    Clover is not kid friendly. It stains clothes.

    Once you get the weeds knocked out with whatever your choice of herbicide is, then you can focus on friendly stuff. Search this forum for pictures I have posted of alfalfa pellets as an organic fertilizer. Using real food on the lawn as a fertilizer is about as friendly as it can get.

    As for insects, there is a biological control called beneficial nematodes that can kill ticks and other critters. These nematodes bring a disease to the host insects. Down here in South Texas we would use them in January to control ticks while they are in the soil. January is the month before we start seeing spring weather coming in, so for you that might be March. The trick with these nematodes is they must have a film of water to move around on. I usually tell people to apply nematodes on the 3rd day of a 4-day rain event. But if you can saturate your soil first, then apply the nematodes, that should work. They also work against grubs in the soil in the summer. The nematodes and the disease they bring to the table are not a problem for mammals, birds, reptiles, or fish.

  • njitgrad
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Enigma7, I have a 3 gallon Solo backback sprayer. You recommend mixing the WBG Max AND the clover killer at at their respective mixing rates for three gallons? Or will WBG Max be sufficient? I really don't like the idea of spot spraying because I really do have large areas of weeds.

  • enigma7
    10 years ago

    I've had several people in the past recommend applying a granular weed killer to a wet lawn (so the granules stick to the leaves) over using a liquid. Those granules that fall through the turf end up acting as weed preventer. Have I been getting bad advice?

    Yes and no; more likely you have been getting advice about two different types of products and thinking they are one. Some granual weed killers are pre-emergent (pre-M). These are applied when the ground is dry and watered into the soil creating a barrier that prevents seeds from germinating. What most weed & feed products use are not pre-M products but require contact on an existing weed leaf to be efffective. Anything that doesn't stick to the weed pretty much is wasted as it will not prevent a seed from germinating. That's why most of us feel the post-emergent (wet the lawn and apply) are a waste.

    Enigma7, I have a 3 gallon Solo backback sprayer. You recommend mixing the WBG Max AND the clover killer at at their respective mixing rates for three gallons? Or will WBG Max be sufficient? I really don't like the idea of spot spraying because I really do have large areas of weeds.

    You definitely want to mix the products. The WBG Max is a great broadleaf weed killer that takes care of a lot of different kinds, but IME is very poor against clover. It may annoy it a bit (wilt some leaves, burn a bit) but I never saw it actually kill a clover plant even when doused in it. The triclopyr (in the clover and oxalis killer), is a very specific herbicide that will not kill nearly as many species of weed as the MBG Max, but is incredibly affective against the clover. The combo 1-2 punch will surely eradicate your clover and most of the other weeds. Just spray carefully around ornamental plants/flowers/trees, and keep the kids off the lawn for at least a week after application (I know it's summer time, your family will hate you, but do it anyway). Plan for a day or two post application without rain in the forcast, and then hopefully a nice rainstorm later in the week to help wash away any excess or at least get it below ground level. I like to have my sprayer on the finest mist you can get and walk backward as I spray side to side (hopefully trying to stay upwind as much as possible). That should guarantee you get the chemical on the leaves of the plants and the best chance for success. Just make sure you do it during a calm period of the day (morning seems to have the least wind IME) since the fine mist can really travel compared to larger droplets.

    HTH (and hopefully my quotes worked properly! :)

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