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| We are in the process of buying our first house -- which means that we know very little! I'd be super appreciative of any and all advice from the sages on this board.
Because of groundwater issues, we asked the seller to have some drainage work done. Now that the work is finished, we are surprised to see that the backyard still looks like a construction site. We did understand that we'd be responsible for reseeding over the newly-dug trenches. We did not understand that the torn-up strips would end up covering much of the (former) lawn and be very rough. It's a disappointment, because we were very excited about the gorgeous well-established grass that was there when we decided to buy this house! I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that it's not possible to drive a bobcat across a wet lawn without tearing up the grass. In the meantime, we have a LOT of prepping and reseeding to do. And given that the digging was essentially tilling, we can expect a lot of new weeds, right? So here's my question. Would you: a. insist that the excavator (who is being paid by the seller) come back now to smooth out the trenches so that they'll be ready for reseeding in 10 days -- despite the fact that it's the end of June and not the best time to plant a lawn, even in the rainy northeast where we live
Many, many thanks for any insight. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by ApprenticeGardener none (My Page) on Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 13:00
| Get an estimate from a third party (assuming there is time) to do the job correctly (grading, soil if necessaru, seeding, etc.). Approach the builder to close either leaving this amount in escrow or to reduce the price of the home by this amount. Whatever you do, don't let the builder off the hook. Best Wishes. |
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| Thanks! The house isn't new construction, so the seller (homeowner) and the contractor who dug up the yard aren't the same party, as I'd expect if it were a builder. The seller is paying the contractor, and I think we're leaning toward pressing the seller to ensure that the grading/smoothing-out gets done now. My main concern, then, is that we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot by having them rockhound the dug-up portions of the site now, in the middle of the summer, rather than waiting. It sounds like you're saying that we should insist on $$ instead of insisting that they bring in the rockhound this week. Does that mean that it's really much better for the lawn for grading and smoothing to be done together in the fall? |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 15:59
| At this point you should be beyond worrying about the grass and possible weeds. You have a more serious issue. Now isn't the time to deal with new grass anyway. Is it possible to post a picture of the unfinished project? It could be you are asking for something unreasonable on top of an otherwise finished project. Even though it appears rough to you, what you are seeing might be the standard practice for finish grading. Did you ask specifically for 'finish grading?' What were your original concerns and what was the exact written agreement? Has the seller told you the contractor was finished? Could be the contractor skipped out on the seller and he's sitting there embarrassed about it, too. Did you say the contractor used a bobcat? That's not a good sign. Most professionals in the finish grading biz use tractors, because they are faster and do a better job. Finish grading (grading and smoothing) can be done any time the ground is dry enough to do it. If you fear a wash out between now and late August, then you probably should wait until the rain stops or you can get the seed down. Don't worry about weeds. Assume the job is not done and ask the seller when the contractor is going to come back and do the finish grading. Again, it would be nice to see a picture. |
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| You should talk to your R.E. agent. Creating a condition precident can lead to unexpected consequences. You could find yourself without a contract and someone else buying the home from under you. Otherwise, everything is negotiable until both the seller and buyer agree to terms. |
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- Posted by dpurvis1984 none (My Page) on Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 19:23
| The least of your concerns right now is weeds and what kind of grass to plant. You clearly stated that you are in the process of buying a house. It sounds like you have not even signed off on the purchase agreement yet. The sale will not be closed in 10 days ready for you to plant... As others have stated, first make sure the contractor is done with the work. In your post you said you asked the seller to have "some drainage work done." That part of the bargain was upheld. You never asked them to grade the site when they were done. In a real estate transaction you have to be VERY particular. If the contractor is done the way I see it you have 2 options: 1) Understand that you goofed by only asking for drainaige work. Buy the house and then arrange to have the site graded and reseeded at your own expense. 2) If you are feeling confident about the sale going through, either ask that the site be "finish graded" or as other suggested, get a quote and ask for that amount off the sale price. IF however your agreement specifically called for the site to have the drainage issues fixed and then be regraded and/or finish graded then your answer is simple. The seller has not fulfilled their end of the contract and you have the right to insist it be completed properly or back out of the sale. |
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| I hate to take up space on the lawn care forum with real estate issues, so sorry if that's driving anyone here nuts. But I do want to make the rest of these details clearer to the folks who were kind enough to offer answers on this thread. We're waaaaaay past the purchase offer stage and we do indeed believe we're near closing -- survey, appraisal, financing, title, insurance, etc, etc, are all ready. The sellers, our bank, both real estate agents, and the attorneys on both sides have all indicated that they're ready to close within a week, and they are just waiting for us to approve this excavation job and lift the contingency. We like the house we're negotiating over very much, but honestly we wouldn't be in a bad position if the deal fell through. So we ARE relaxed about it. We've been renting for many years in the same neighborhood as the house, and there's no compelling reason that we need to buy this year instead of next year (except for interest rates and enthusiasm). And the sellers have moved out of state between the time they accepted our purchase offer and now. It wouldn't be impossible for them to walk away, but it would be a headache for them, and we would not be devastated. The contingency simply says that the sellers will carry out the excavation work according to the contractor's quote, which obviously is attached to the contract. The line items in the quote include materials, delivery, excavation to create a french drain, and tying-in of existing gutter downspouts. The contractor did a walk-through with me to expain his quote before we agreed on the work, another walk-through in the middle of the work when he had a question, and another after he declared it complete. At each stage he repeated that all I'd be left with when he was done was the job of laying the seed, since the seller didn't want to pay that extra expense, though it would be normally included. I agreed (and still agree). He now claims that the seller specifically asked him to leave out not just the seeding but also the "restoration" work. So yes, I was surprised to discover that returning the lawn to its former grade wasn't part of the deal. Our real estate agent, who checked out the work after we expressed surprise, strongly believes that the grading ought to have been done as part of a "normal" job. All that said, we don't particularly want to hold up this deal on a matter of pride. I'm ready to accept the job as is, as long as I'm sure I can successfully reseed the lawn without tons of added expense sometime this year. And I don't happen to own a rockhound. Which brings me to my original question: better to ask them to smooth out the grade and let it sit for 2 months, or put the whole project aside until Labor Day? I think the answer I'm sensing here is that neither choice would doom the lawn. Thanks for so many ideas and questions about the real estate part of this. Even though it's true that I'm treating this deal emotionally lightly, I'm of course hoping it all works out neatly, and soon! Photos in the next post -- |
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| I think my opinion (at least on what I would do) is going to depend on what condition exists. Let's see the photo's. |
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| My camera flattens out images quite a bit, so I'm not sure how helpful these pictures are. The swath of soil shown is 10-12 feet wide in real life (for a 4-inch pipe) and runs along the whole back yard. Dirt piles the size of my foot look like pebbles here and it's hard to make perspective clear. But maybe you can get the idea anyway? |
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| Sigh. Have been waiting for 20 minutes for these to upload, so I'm going to stop at 2 photos, unless anyone requests otherwise . . . |
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| PS -- "And I don't happen to own a rockhound." Or a tractor and box blade :) |
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| It's hard to tell if it's prperly graded for drainage and level. But, it's not terrible. I do think it should have been raked of stone, wood and debree and ready for seed. I don't believe it needs rock-hounded, just a lot of manual raking and debree removed. A good contractor would have kept the top soil separate to be returned to the top. It's a judgment call if you want to hold up the closing on this basis as it's going to be a bit messy with 3 parties involved. whatever you do, you shouldn't seed until late August. If you decide to bite the bullet, a couple of hours of raking and wheelbarrowing each weekend until then would fix it. |
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| BTW, that contractor in the background looks a little young. Inexperience could be what lead to the problem. |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Tue, Jun 19, 12 at 20:27
| Are those wheel marks out there in the back in the first pic? If so, leave those alone - meaning don't fill them in. You can try to mush down the high spots but don't bring in any more soil to level it out there. It will all correct itself. I agree with the above. Rake it up yourself. You can make a drag out of a piece of chain link fence and a 2x4. Find a piece of fence about 5 feet by 5. Tie it to a 5-foot 2x4 and tie a 12 foot rope to either end of the 2x4. Pull that around by the rope and it will level the soil for you. Drag it every which way until you are happy. If it does not work perfectly, then put some weight on the fence so it will dig in. You have to get all the rocks out or the drag will just roll them around. Why did you think you needed a French drain? In answer to one of the questions somewhere, turf type tall fescue is probably what you want in that shade. |
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| Thank you both -- this is great information!! Yes, the tiny landscaper is a bit inexperienced. But I bet she'll enjoy helping us drag around a chain link fence. I wouldn't have thought of doing it without a machine, but that sounds much more efficient than the hand rake alone. We'll most certainly try it. Grass1950, I hadn't really given topsoil much thought. We don't want the lawn level to be any higher anyway, even after it settles, so would compost right before seeding be a good idea (banking on the idea that it would disappear soon)? Or would you stick with fertilizer? We do want to stay mainly organic (again, see the tiny lanscaper). There are wheel marks all over the place, yes. The contractor came back and filled in one huge set that was about 4" deep (where he parked the truck full of gravel, before taking the gravel out with a wheelbarrow) but we'll leave the rest to figure itself out. The French drain went in, along with a couple of buried and redirected gutter downspouts, at the recommendation of our home inspector and 2 contractors. (OK, right, the home inspector technically doesn't recommend work, but he pointedly recommended that we get someone who does French drains in to look at it and make a recommendation.) Our neighborhood is a vast gentle hill, perched atop bedrock with plenty of rain. The yard was really squishy and there was persistent water in the crawl space. It does seem that French drains are overprescribed, but this problem was about groundwater and not surface water, so I hope adding it along the back of the yard (nowhere near the house) with a spout at the base of the hill, along with diverting the gutter pipes away from the house, redoing the crawl space vapor barrier, and putting in a better sump pump will dry out the soil and keep the foundation dryer than it was. Hope that's not TOO too much detail :) Honestly, though, if the drain was a mistake -- well, I'm not ready to learn from that mistake yet. Give it a year to settle in and then I'll be delighted to learn about the parts we messed up. Again, your ideas are super helpful. I will absolutely keep scouring the forum as we go about raking and seeding and watering our turf type tall fescue! |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Wed, Jun 20, 12 at 20:18
| Cripes! Wasn't expecting a real reason to do the drain. Usually people do that stuff for the wrong reasons. My first thought on drainage is to build a swale to take water away. A swale is a sort of ditch with lawn in it. Here is a drawing of a swale concept to protect a home from flooding. The idea is that all the water drains away from the building. Swales are much less expensive than a French drain.
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| Yep -- nice picture. In a different situation that would be exactly the place to start, but since we don't own the house yet and want the problem solved before it's ours, we're sort of doing it backwards here and starting with the expensive option instead of waiting to see how well the swales work. In any event, the soil and crawlspace do already seem drier than they did a few weeks ago, so I hope this job has taken care of it! We're expecting more rain all week -- we should have a chance to find out soon. |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Sat, Jun 23, 12 at 14:24
| I did not mean to say your approach would not work. I'm saying what I posted is much more normal than French drains. I just read an excerpt from the building code. Apparently there is supposed to be a 6-inch drop away from level out to the 10-foot distance away from the house. Another way of saying that is 6 inches over 10 feet. My own house does not have that which concerns me; however, my soil seems to be extremely absorbent sandy stuff. Need to jar test my own soil. |
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