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| So, after reading tons and tons on this site, I have decided to start my project. Problem is, my husband isn't into yardwork at all so it will mostly be me, and as a mom to 2 year old triplets, I don't have a lot of time. I decided to check into having a landscaper do it to see what it would cost. I started making calls only to find none of them seem to know what I'm talking about and they all tell me I'm crazy to want to use sand instead of topsoil or compost. I just spoke with a company who has been leveling lawns for 30 years. He told me that it is completely useless to aerate a yard. He also said that if I use sand it will likely kill the grass and if it doesn't it will all eventually wash away when it rains. He said a year from now it would still be washing away each time it rains. He told me not to scalp the grass. In fact, he said to let the grass grow tall, and then have him come do his work. He uses a mixture of "compost and rich chocolate loam" that has been run through a grinder. He said it looks like coffee grounds when he is through with it. He charges $745 for 8 cubic yards of this mixture to be delivered and smoothed and raked across the yard. I'm so confused now and have no idea how to proceed. Why is it that sand is the preferred method on this site? I've seen the pictures of some of your yards after you leveled it with sand and they look amazing, but I can't find a professional who agrees with the method. Sorry,venting now. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Hey aggierose, I commend you for your efforts to take on such a huge task. Can I make a suggestion? I'm in Carrollton and have the same clay soil you have. If I were you, I'd hold off on aerating and leveling. It's too much work based on your time constraints. Here's what I would do this season. 1. Figure out your watering schedule. Set your sprinklers to run 10min a zone for 3 cycles. For example, if you have 5 zones, set the 1st watering time at 4am, the 2nd at 5am, and the 3rd at 6am. So in essence, you will have watered your lawn 30mins total, but 10mins at a time since you have a runoff problem. Be sure to set out tuna cans or something similar to measure how much water you're putting down. If you find that that it's not 1", add another start time at 7am. I have 4 start time available on my sprinkler controller, you may or may not. If you don't, you can increase the time per zone by a few minutes or use the B program setting. Bottomline is, you want to put down 1" of water all at once, one time per week. So learn how to "manipulate" your sprinkler controller to achieve that w/o getting runoff. Also, always water in the early morning to minimize disease to the lawn. It might take you several weeks of measuring to find the right combination of settings. 2. Mow your grass twice a week at 1-1.5". If you must cheat, mow at least once a week. 3. Fertilize once a month using Lesco 39-0-0, product #000777. I believe there's a John Deere Landscaping store in Frisco, so you can get this there. 4. If you want to soften you soil, there's a product called Aerify Plus that might help. It's like aerating w/o the heavy equipment. Here's a link: http://www.natureslawn.com/aerify-plus.php I'm just rewording some of the things written in the Bermuda Bible, just trying to simplify it for you. Hopefully, these steps will be easier than the huge project you were planning on doing. Remember, it will take some time, but hopefully, you will see some results toward the end of this season. As for the "professional", I've learned that many (but not all) don't know enough to do a job right. I've made it a point to learn the proper ways to do things around the house so if I hire a "pro" I can have a meaningful discussion w/ them about the work. Youtube, followed by Google are my best friends when it comes to these thing. That how I found this site. Sorry so long, but one last thing - how to post a picture here. Check the link below. It is by far the easiest instructions I've found on here. I've even bookmarked it. |
Here is a link that might be useful: How to post picture
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| Since you do have clay, I would aerate before applying sand. It helps modify the structure. I posted a video in the lawn levelling thread. You may want to view it. This is how one comapny does it. It is expensive to have done. I think thats why we attempt it on our own. |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 8:29
| Sand is preferred when a homeowner is doing the job him/herself. Topsoil might be as good if there are no clods in it. Home owners do not have the grinder used by the pros to smash the clods. Some of the topsoil in bags might work as long as it was very dry and not cloddy. I had 12 yards of bulk topsoil delivered once but never again. Now I use a sand mix. When you are trying to level, you cannot get any more level than the largest particles of material left on the ground. Clods present a problem. Someone here suggested core aerating first. Well, no. Not only no, but NO! All the cores would become clods (high spots) that you would have to add sand up to. So to bring in cloddy topsoil would not be a good approach. At the same time he makes a good point about the sand washing away. If you are on a slope, then maybe sand is not the most perfect material. If you have thin grass like fescue, then it might not work. But if you have a relatively dense grass and keep it fertilized (for density), then sand should work. For the best density in bermuda, it is best the follow the Bermuda Bible and keep it mowed very low and fertilized every month of the growing season. Your landscaper's material is ground up. At first that sounds not so bad. The problem is he uses compost in it. Compost completely disappears after about a year which would leave you short on volume. If you are looking at price, $745 for 8 yards of his material, delivered and spread, is not a bad deal. Even if he only brought in topsoil (relatively free), it is a pretty good price for delivery and labor. The part about letting the grass grow up high puzzles me - especially if you have bermuda. Wonder how he spreads the stuff? I have heard of blowers that blow the material out of big hoses. That makes it go fast and minimizes the amount of hand labor needed, but it is not good at making a level surface. With this in mind I would not use that landscaper. I don't like the compost in the mix and I don't understand how he levels it with tall grass. |
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- Posted by nearandwest 7 (My Page) on Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 9:46
| aggierose: I can completely understand how your head would be spinning after reading all these different posts with their differing opinions on what to do and how to do it, and the conversations you have had with the local landscapers. My head is spinning too!!! Lol. Good luck. |
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| Aggierose, Just curious- did you ask the landscaper for a portfolio of his work that has pics of before, during, and after? What about references to lawns in your area? I would find someone in your are that has used his services and go talk to them/see their lawn. Otherwise, I'd be leary of the one person out of a hundred who does something different than everyone else .....then again I am an organic lawn care practitioner. ;-) |
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| Did I miss something....did the writer say she lived in the Frisco area and did the writer also say she has Bermuda grass. If this is so, before you do anything, read material on the different grasses whose mowing height is different. As far as making the soil want to grow what you put into it, then if you are completely fed up and can entertain the idea of digging it up totally and starting anew, then do that. A good deep digging rototiller is gone over it, then lots of organic matter...peat moss, compost, triple mix, loam, and other organic material....you can find a list of all what that term is on the internet....and this then is incorporated into the soil which then is one that will help hold moisture and enrich what is planted. Sand is often used when aerating to open up the clay so that better drainage is achieved. But it has to be coarse sand....not beach sand, not the sand that is used in play boxes....that stuff just holds water...coarse sand, or builders' sand can be bought at any quarry or soil dealer. How is Bermuda mowed....from what I read, mowing at such a low height as 1" - 1 1/2" is what will surely kill the lawn because it then has no protection from the hot sun. As far as levelling, that can be a matter of digging...actually removing hills, levelling, then return the sod. Rolling such a clay soil lawn is a sure-fire way to add compaction....and increased drainage problems. But, you could live with it. Hills on lawns are not all that bad if they are not what kids sleigh down in winter. |
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| goren, the OP lives in Prosper and has Bermuda. This info is from other threads that she started. |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 11:48
| I do not normally write in simply to contradict someone else, but I believe goren to be confused about this. The OP lives near Frisco, Texas and has a bermuda lawn. Bermuda is like bentgrass in that it looks best and performs best when mowed at 1.5 inches or lower. Golf course putting greens use a special variety of bermuda and are mowed at about 3/32 inch (less than 3mm) high. When bermuda is allowed to get tall it becomes thin and weak. When it is mowed low, it takes on a horizontal growth habit that blankets the ground. Typical home owner bermuda should be mowed at 1.5 inches in the heat of summer and down around 3/4 to 1 inch during the rest of the year. Regarding soil prep: never rototill in preparation for grass. If you want to rototill in prep for veggies, that is between you and the devil (I would not do it then, either). For lawns tilling is the fast track way back to bumpy soil. There is much more I disagree with but this is what pertains immediately to this issue. |
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| Aggierose, after reading this and the other threads I'll throw in a few random comments: 1. Run, don't walk, away from anyone who wants to use compost to level the lawn. As dchall mentioned, the compost will eventually deteriorate into thin air and the lawn won't be level anymore. 2. The fact that you're getting conflicting advice means that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Pick a method that you're comfortable with and go for it. Even if you do it wrong, there's nothing that can't be fixed with a little more work. It is Bermuda, after all. You can't kill it. 3. When I leveled my lawn, it wasn't a once and done thing. I sanded every spring for three years before I was satisfied. It got easier the second and third years as I was only touching up the rough spots. 4. I did the work myself using my Toyota pick up to haul the sand, a wheel barrow, shovel, and a bow rake. I know nothing about you but my wife didn't have the physical strength to do the work. My wife wasn't caring for two year old triplets either. 5. I did the work in early spring at the first sign of green up. First, it's a lot cooler in early spring. Second, the lawn isn't going to look good right after you finish and it already doesn't look real good in early spring. Third, the first step is to scalp the lawn and early spring is when I scalp anyway. 6. IMO, a nice lawn is an ongoing project. Do something. If you don't like the results, do something else. Of course, my lawn is my hobby and it's an easy thing for me to say. David... |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Fri, Jun 17, 11 at 21:51
| I see a theme emerging from those experienced with leveling. It could be they just forgot how bumpy their lawn used to be, but almost inevitably, they continue to level it to perfection. What I get from that is to just do it. If it is not good enough, then do it again. |
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| Thank you for all the advice. I do think I'm going to just pick something and do it. I know I want to aerate first. Now, I had in my mind that I would have to pick up all of the plugs that come out to prevent bumps. For those of you who aerate, do you just leave them on the ground? I think I will just start small and use sand to level some areas and go from there. And, FYI, the landscaper I talked to told me that his 8 yards would cover about a 50 x 50 area, so he must lay that stuff pretty thick. He also said he lets the grass grow tall otherwise his mixture would smother the grass and kill it. I did have another landscaper tell me not to use sand because it will eventually get into the sprinkler heads and cause problems. Has anyone had this happen? In regards to sperading the sand, I don't have access to any type of a riding mower, or anything else that I can drive across my yard. Is it possible to get it level with just a rake? My front yard isn't all that big. |
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| You can take a look at this thread here: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lawns/msg0411310416637.html?3
1 I am very pleased with my results. I aerated, and broke up all of the plugs with my rake. If I had to do it again, I would have raked all of the plugs up off the ground. They did make leveling more challenging. I spread sand with a garden wagon and a shovel and broom... It was very difficult work, but definitely worth it. dchall, Your observation of the emerging trend is dead on. I will be top dressing / fine tuning in the future for sure. |
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