The number 1 thing is don't try to add sand. Sand and clay is a receipe for concrete.

Mechanical aeration, adding organic fertilizers, compost, compost teas, nematodes and earthworms are the techniques I know of unless you want to dig everthing else up and start over.

Clay actually has some good points. If you can get it to absorb water, it holds water longer.

I would add any kind of organic matter that you can find. Compost is good, especially if the soil is currently basically dead because of the construction.

Sometimes tree trimming companies will give chipped trees for free. The downside is that you usually have to take the hole truck full.

Most Starbucks will give away used coffee grounds (UCG) for free. I shake them out of the bag onto the lawn as I walk backward around the yard. In addition to adding more organic matter, they're also a mild fertilizer.

Spread any of these no more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep.

Mulch mow every time you mow the lawn. Also, mulch mow your leaves. If you have neighbors who bag their leaves, ask them for the leaves and mulch them into the lawn.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! It looks like I'm just stuck trying to revive the soil, as ripping it up and starting over would be quite a task.

I'm very interested to see what comes back in my soil tests. By the way, do you guys think an Iron test would be good? They keep the samples I sent them, and I can have any other tests I'd like run on them in the future.

What happens if you put more than 1/2 inch of compost down after aerating? Does that depend on how thick you lay on the compost? It would seem if it's not packed down it probably shouldn't matter.

Also, just wondering if it's ever better to lay out the compost first and then aerate so it mixes?

I have absolutely no top soil - just clay and chunks of limestone and concrete. I've been in my house for about a year and a half, and where the sod was laid, the soil has actually improved by itself - the only thing I have ever done is mulch mow - can't afford (lack of time and money) to do all that other stuff. The only places where the sod looks bad is generally where there are huge chunks of rock/concrete underneath.

The backyard, however, was seeded w/ fescue and it is a completely different story. I think you're lucky you got the sod.

OK, so as far as spreading the compost, is there a specific kind I should be looking for? Can I find some that will be fine enough that I can use my broadcast spreader to dispense it? When should I spread it? The weather here has been in the mid-90s.

"What happens if you put more than 1/2 inch of compost down after aerating? Does that depend on how thick you lay on the compost?"

I don't understand your second question. If you put down 1/2 inch of compost, the compost is 1/2 inch thick.

If you put down more than 1/2 inch at once, you run the risk of smothering the grass. You can put down 1/2 inch, then a few weeks later, put down another 1/2 inch, but I wouldn't put down more than 1/2 inch in one application.

Sorry bp,

I meant 1/2 inch just laid down as compared to a 1/2 inch of compacted compost. I don't envision I'll be stepping all over the spread. Does that make more sense.

Also, if I were just going to reseed anyway, does it really matter if I smother the original grass?

If you're going to reseed, you can add more compost and not worry about smothering the grass.

I just noticed a couple of other questions from Skizot. If you can get compost from a nursery in bulk, that would be the best way to go, since it would be expensive to buy it by the bag.

As far as spreading it, I don't think a broadcast spreader would work. One method I've read is to spread it with a shovel and use a push broom to try to get it a little more evenly distributed. There are compost spreaders available, but they tend to be pretty expensive.

I would caution on the amount of compost you put down. The point of compost is to get the soil biology going so the microbes work their magic and decompose the compost into eventually humus.

I think too much compost at one time when you do not have a robust organic soil holds too much water at the surface setting conditions for disease/pests.

This is not an overnight thing. This is a 5 year plan to get OM into your soil. A little at a time to start. Next year add a little more and so on.

soccer_dad , You statement about sand is incorrect. Sand will tend to loosen clay if mixed in enough quantity. Clay by itself will get hard like concrete when dry but when mixed with sand makes a good soil for growing grass.

"Sand will tend to loosen clay if mixed in enough quantity. "

As the bard wrote, "Aye, there's the rub."

Most of the soil in Utah is either very sandy or heavy clay, with not much in between. The extension services out here recommend against adding sand to clay because it takes so much to make things better and will actually make things worse if you add too little.

If you're willing to add enough sand (about 40-50%), it has the advantage of being a permanent help, whereas organic matter needs to be added on an ongoing basis.

The reason the extension services here recommend against adding sand to clay is that because it takes so much, people end up adding too little and making things worse.

If you are tempted to re-seed, I'd add the compost, and then add topsoil, then reseed. You don't have to do it all at once. But you could work outward from the house, in bands like a horizontally striped shirt, having divided the lawn (sides, and back, and front) into fifths, even tenths, and do one band each season. And learn a lot about lawns, and have a more permanent solution.

Philes, was that directed at me?

no, it was directed to the OP. But it kinda dovetails with your post, if you were serious about not worrying about smothering the original grass.

I've got an acre in the front, and an acre in the back, plus the sides of the house. I'm trying to figure out how the heck I'd feel, if I bought this place (there goes the family fortune...) and then discovered there was sod dropped onto a rough grade, with no topsoil spread around. The Sopranos being off the air, I'd probably not (but I'd be tempted....) put the builder in a swimming pool, hand him a cell phone, while I stood over him, and asked him "how LONG will it take, til the topsoil gets delivered and spread on my lot, MF'er?

No. Of course not.

So I'd have to figure out "How long do I want to live here on a clay pan, with sod that is going to lose it's peat base?"

And I'd start figuring out how much topsoil needed to be delivered, in manageable amounts, and I'd start at the house (building the topsoil up next to the house first), and spreading outward, covering up the useless sod as I went along.

But, then again, swimming pools can add a lot of value to your property. Especially when you use 'em correctly......

"soccer_dad , You statement about sand is incorrect"

Really? I'm open minded about amending soil. My readings all indicate when trying to amend a clay with sand the amount is ridiculously large. BP cited 40-50%; here is an excerpt from writings on grounds-mag.com - "Regardless of which sand you use, in order to effectively improve the structure of a native soil, it will take at least 60 percent sand by volume, which must be evenly distributed throughout the soil with proper mixing. This process normally uses much more sand than most turf managers have the capacity to apply or mix in one single application. A simple garden tiller will not properly accomplish this task. Lastly, sand has very poor nutrient retention and frequent applications during stress times like drought or heat can be very abrasive and inflict damage to sensitive turfgrass plants." The article was written by Dr. Bigelow, Purdue University.

60% sand in a clay soil mixed to 12" depth (and that is not deep enough) is 22 yards per thousand square feet. That is a lot of sand and yes, I made the assumption that the OP had no intention of digging up his lawn, hiring a professional to come dig out his yard and mix that much sand. I also make the assumption that most people believe they can go to the local big box, buy a couple bags of sand to topdress their lawn and it will improve. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In my own yard the previous owner attempted a small vegetable garden and added play sand. That area is as hard as rock to the point that not only can't I push a screwdriver into the soil, driving it with an engineer hammer is difficult.

For most residential lawns you are best to stick with either native soil or add organic matter.

Instead of saying I'm wrong I'd very much like to hear what your technique and experience is in the advice you offer.

{{gwi:104865}}

{{gwi:104866}}

Be glad you don't live directly on rocks. I'd much rather have clay. At least I can drastically improve hard compacted clay soil to very nice stuff that earthworms would be everywhere. Rock is still rock...

Lou, how the heck did you accomplish that? And is it high maintenance? Details, please, every last hardworking one of 'em. That is a most impressive achievement.

Lol. It's nothing more than pure limestone rubbles when the whole place was razed for a new subdivision in 2003. Clay based topsoil probably got mixed in a little bit here and there. Anyway after the house was built, the ground was like concrete so I wondered how anything could grow so I started reading stuff about growing which led me to a lot of places including this forum and decided that organic care was the way to go to try and improve the soil in the long run. it seemed to be working. The white stuff have turned to dark color between rocks. The ground has softened up significantly to the point where I can easily use the garden tool CLAW on it. My neighbors couldn't do it at all at their place when I lent the tool to them for them to plant stuff.

This summer has been hot and dry so I've been watering deeply every 7 to 10 days or so and I'm getting sick of it. Last year, it was perfect. Rain all summer long and everything grew a lot. Not so much this year... Last year, when I helped a couple neighbors plant trees, I was surprised to see how dry and compact it was at 4-6 inches below ground despite all of the rain. I did not have that problem so I think organic program works very well.

Let's see what else..It's st augustine grass... I fertilize with soybean meal or alfalfa pellets every 3 months... I mow at 4.25"... Water as needed. I sometimes spray with seaweed liquid which I need to do that tonight to help boost hardiness with the weather I've been having.

soccer dad, I stated it that way to counter-act your statement that the "number 1" thing not to do is to add sand because that is a recipe for concrete. Well it isn't concrete nor does it make the situation worse. Not enough sand may not help much but it doesn't make concrete either. I have various combinations of clay based soil. Some areas of my yard are pure clay and others of almost pure sand with mixtures of the two in other places. In my flower beds I mixed sand with almost pure clay to loosen it up in other areas this wasn't needed. Solid clay is tough to deal with for sure and building on top of it is about all one can do if solid clay is all you have.
Lou, Your yard looks nice compared to the "before" pics. I'm assuming with all that lime based sub-soil you have no acid problems. St. Augustine should love that.

Thanks for all of the response guys. I appreciate it! I think I'll just see what I can do to improve the soil with the organic approach.

rdaystrom,
Fine. We disagree and I think you are just incorrect.

When I buy dump truck loads of dirt around here what you likely get is clay and sand mixed. In my previous yard I had to fill in a section as deep as 2 feet with an average depth of about 6 inches. I was skeptical at first until I realized it would grow anything I planted. My point is that clay is not totally bad but the key word here is adding enough sand. No you cannot add 2 bags of play sand nor can you add 2 bags of "organic" anything and expect much change. Anyway...adding some sand does not make concrete. Clay already dries like concrete. Clay also holds moisture for a long time. One of the areas of my brother's St. Augustine yard that survives month long droughts is the clay area of his yard. My suggestion for a person stuck with clay in their yard is to mulch the grass and leaves, add whatever they can as time permit and money permits, and water the yard lightly and slowly for long periods to allow water to soak into the clay.

The best thing you can do for clay soil is not to do anything that would ruin soil biology and add a lot of organic matter. My mother's st augustine growing in clay soil is a living proof. It NEVER gets extra watering. All it gets is the rain along with a couple organic fertilizers a year. Mulch mowed every time. Over years, the soil is very rich with millions of earthworms... Go down the street to my sister's house... She and her husband runs pest control business so needless to say that they use pesticide, anything with that ends with -icide on the lawn and they have to water the lawn just to stay alive because the soil biology is pretty much ruined. I tried explaining it to them but they don't get it at all.

Hello guys,

I have a similar problem like skizot but I am not too sure if what I have is clay. I grabbed some soil from the ground and hold but it is does not clump together but when I wet it, it forms clumps and holds together. Whenever it rains, there are puddles that do not drain until an hour after the rain ends. I live in a new construction in new york city and whenever I tried planting something I dig into rocks and sometimes huge boulders (pieces of the old foundation, sheet rocks, copper pipes). It seems like my front and back yard has only two inches of topsoil and the rest is maybe clay.

I've been attempting to start a new lawn but do not know if I am doing the right thing. can someone tell me if the approach below is correct or not? Two photos below shows what my lawn currently looks like. one is the front yard and the other one is the backyard. My lawn area is small so maybe about 500 sq ft in total.

1. Remove the top 6 inches of soil which includes top soil and hard soil underneath.
2. Rent a tiller to loosen the compacted soil underneath.
3. Get a truck of topsoil delivered and till in into the lossen soil.
4. Add 2 inches of compost and rototill?? Not sure about this and do I need anything else.
5. Grade it away from the house.
6. Spread the seed, fertilizer, lime.

The other two photos shows a cherry bloosom on the sidewalk that is not doing too well. Does anyone have suggestions to heal the wound on this tree. The bark is coming off on the northwest facing side of the tree. Thank you for the attention!!! Any suggestion is appreciated.

{{gwi:104867}}
{{gwi:104868}}
{{gwi:104869}}
{{gwi:104871}}

If you are digging into construction debris (2x stock, sheetrock and old copper pipes) the soil is probably contaminated with all kinds of chemicals. You can dig it out and throw it away. Have the new soil brought in and amend with compost. Tilling that small an area is not really necessary. You'll probably get a more stable grade by spreading and raking. Water and let it settle for a few weeks before planting so you can re-level if necessary.

The base of the trunk of that tree appears diseased and rotten. I do not have any suggestions other than to remove and re-plant. But, I'd want to know what damaged that tree before planting another.

soccerdad--Thank you for the advice. I will dig up everything and make sure the grade is proper before i have new soil with compost brought in. Another question I have is I planted a pear tree (show on photo #2 with tree wrap) and it had died. I dug the hole three feet wide and three foot deep. However it died after three weeks.

Is it possible that the soil beneath is not draining well and caused it to die. If so can I do anything to correct that? I know after I am done with all the work I mentioned before, I will have six inches of good draining soil. Will that be enough to prevent future plants/trees from dying in this location? Thank you for your attention.

As a follow-up - what is a good type of compost to spread when overseeding? My compost pile isn't big enough or fine enough to use on my front yard.

I've considered composted manure, Scott's lawnsoil, and a couple of others; I'm thinking of spreading organic humus for my overseed project.

I've got to start improving the front. The soil is pretty hard and mostly. The slope make the top dry out fast. I've never spread anything on the yard before; I should start spreading 1/4" twice a year and see if I can get a roller.

Is there a nursery near you that sells compost in bulk?

Not that I know of. They sell mulches in bulk; I haven't seen compost.

Any suggestions? I'm guessing either composted manure or humus would be fine.

barrychan, there are any number of things that can kill a tree. I've overwatered before and roots rotted. It could be a diseased tree to start with. Is pear proper for your area? Generally, the nursery you purchase from will have good advice on planting and care. One thing I learned is not to amend the native soil. Trees tend to like native soil better, but I still add a little compost or bagged soil. Also when you dig the hole not to leave the sides smooth and compacted as the roots will not grow through, they will turn and bind upon themselves.

sdrone, I use the cheapest bagged manure compost from the big box to supplement my own compost. Not much microbial life but ok from an organic matter perspective.

soccer_dad-- thanks again for the advice. pear tree is actually pretty popular in my area. i dug the whole 3 feet deep and 3 feet wide and added bagged potting soil and peat moss to the whole before i placed the pear tree. I did not amend the native soil that came with the tree and just planted the tree in the whole carefully.

my house is on a slope, i am suspecting that when it rains all the water might have found its way to the 3x3 area since water does not drain too well in the other area. if that is the case, is there anything I can do? I mean the 3'x3' whole i made was filled with new soil but the surrounding area is hard clay and sand mix that takes a while to drain after raining. thank you!!!