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eltbee

building up lawn area in front of retaining wall for grass (w/ pi

eltbee
11 years ago

Background: North Texas area (Collin County). Slab on grade. No basement. Soil is clay. Existing grass is Bermuda. We have a small backyard. It is roughly 30'x40'. The corner of the property sloped off towards the alley as you would expect to promote drainage. It had excellend drainage but the slope was too great to be usable. There was an existing 2' retaining wall on one side of this yard area that also sloped down to the corner. And there was a soon to be large Cedar Elm tree right in the corner. The upshot is we wanted to reclaim the space, however small, for use as a play area for the kids. I have done a few things:

1) Removed the tree.

2) Extended the 2' retaining wall around the back of the yard so that it is level with the existing retaining wall, back-filled the wall with about 12 inches of 3/4 angular limestone gravel in a landscape fabric envelope, and put a fence on top. BTW, the height of the retaining wall at the highest point was 20 inches so I didn't do a draintile - just gravel.

3) Installed 4 inch sewer pipe (white) for all of the gutter outlets to this area and daylighted them through the wall in the corner.

4) I put in a 12x12 basin + drain grate in this back corner. In fact, my gutter drainage pipe is all tied in to the basin. Not sure that it will actually be useful as a drain though.

5) I redid the entire sprinkler system from scratch in the area so the heads can be properly adjusted to the new level (time consuming holy cow!).

Now I am at the stage where I am bringing the back yard up to level with the retaining wall and re-setting the grading. The area will be topped with turfgrass (Bermuda). Since it is a blank slate, I want to get the soil and grading right for drainage and grass. In general I am trying to do it right since this area is effectively built up from scratch. Since it is a small area, cost is no object. I have at my disposal anything from local landscape vendors. Most people use living earth stuff here. I have been filling the area with Texas Black which is very fine, clean, clay fill dirt. This is going on top of the existing soil which is almost all clay and rock. I know that I can't put grass down on the clay fill dirt so I must leave room for topsoil. The existing Bermuda had very poor topsoil. As near as I can tell, they just laid sod on top of the clay fill dirt which I think is normal for new construction.

Few questions:

1) I have the Texas Black (clay) as primary fill dirt. How much room should I leave for Topsoil?

2) When I put the topsoil on top, should I mix it in with the clay to create a transition? If so how much transition and how much pure topsoil?

2a) Any particular topsoil I should use? I have access to Topsoil+Compost mix which is the plan so far.

3) Should I grade the clay layer first and then put topsoil on top or grade the final clay+topsol mix from above?

4) Should I seed or sod? Cost doesn't really matter but the sod I have seen so far it grown in clay which might not be so ideal to layer on top of what I am preparing?

4a) If seed, it is basically 1st of August. Too late to seed? Any particular seed to use?

5) Since my regrading will encompass existing Bermuda areas, is it ok to just cover it with the dirt mixture I am asking about above? Do I need to cut out the old grass?

6) From the base of the foundation to the most distant point in the corner of the retaining wall where the drain is (roughly 40 feet), the elevation change is about 10 inches. This is about 2% gradient. Do I grade 2% evenly the whole way or do I put in more gradient near the house and less through the lawn. The existing codes recommend 6 inches in the first 10 feet from foundation. Because this area doesn't see any runoff from the roof now, it should only handle the water from the lawn surface itself if that matters.

7) My basin + drain sits about 4 inches below the retaining wall in the most distant corner of the yard. Not sure that it is necessary now. Any tips on how to grade the lawn to incorporate it? Or should I pull it out (cover it)? Could I create some swales to direct the water to it?

8) In preparing my area to take soil or sod, anything else I should mix in? Local guy said use some Texas greensand.

Any other questions I should be asking?

Thanks in advance!

eltbee

Comments (14)

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is a better quality picture.

    http://i.imgur.com/IyMgG.jpg

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:106422}}

  • texas_weed
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    1A. Well you will not like my answers, but here goes. That Texas Black Gumbo soil is some of the most nutrient richest soil money can buy. The problem with it is it lacks tilth, but you can fix that easily.

    There are several places in DFW that sell the stuff you are trying to get rid of. They just fix it, and you can make a trade buy removing about 15 yards of your Gumbo, and trade it in for their mix for a fee. Per cubic yard of soil the recipe is 9 cubic feet of screened compost, 40-lbs Lava Sand,30-lbs Green Sand, 10-lbs Dry Molasses, 10-lbs animal feed grade Corn Meal, and 2-lbs worm castings.

    You want to at least have 4inches of good top soil. So at 30 x 40 you are talking 15 cubic yards or 2 dump trucks full.

    2A. Just put down 1-inc, rake it in and then apply the last 3 inches.

    4A Use Bermuda Sod. My farm up in Tioga has Tifway-II and TifSport. Another good choice is Tifway_I aka 419. TifSport is a high grade stuff and cost the same as the other two.

    5A depends on what type it is, and what type you go back with. Most likely it is Tifway-I. If you do not bury it it will come back.

    6A. Codes i work with DO NOT RECOMMEND, they say SHALL BE A MINIMUM.

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the info texas-weed. What you say makes sense. Tilth - I learned something new. Just to be clear, I'm not actually taking any of my existing soil out, just adding stuff. That Texas Black I am using as the primary fill does seem to be very high quality. Side note, I was following the recommendation of the soil vendor which was to not do all topsoil but to have a base of the Texas Black clay and topsoil on top. I hope that was the right recommendation because I'm just about done filling in with 10 yards of it.

    I'm having a hard time getting recommendations for sod vendors in Collin Co area. There seems to be only one. If you have a few I would be grateful.

    That's right. Shall be a minimum is the wording used. Here is the snippet from a recent inspector's report:

    Grading specifications are spelled out clearly in International Residential Code (IRC) R401.3,
    "...Lots shall be graded so as to drain surface water away from foundation walls. The grade away from foundation walls shall fall a minimum of 6 inches within the first 10 feet... NOTE: The municipality�s plat drainage requirements can exceed those set forth by the IRC, i.e. require more than a 6" drop in elevation in the first 10� out from the perimeter of the foundation, but cannot be less stringent."

  • texas_weed
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lots shall be graded

    In code talk that is not a recommendation, it is a firm command, and failure to comply means you do not get a CO until you comply. Not only can the city keep you from living there, your insurance writer and bank can default you if they wish and take over ownership. Not trying to scare you, just stating the the code and facts. A lot like the bible when you read Thy Shall Not...

    As for sod vendors try Denton County just to the west like Tri-Tex Sod Farm. For small projects like your one of the Nurseries should be able to supply you. Better yet from a money POV if you can get a PU Truck with a trailer go to a sod farm and pick up 3 pallets.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Neither you nor TW are going to like my reply.

    You have waaaaaaaaaaayyyy too much shade for bermuda. Tall fences and tall buildings surrounding a small area means you cannot grow bermuda successfully. You might have too much shade for any grass. Did you have a good looking lawn back there before embarking on the improvement plan? or was this project an attempt to make things better based on an assumption that poor drainage and soil was the issue?

    Was the fence always that high?

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can put whatever grass back there is appropriate. Not married to Bermuda but the majority of yards do around here. Previously it was a 6 foot fence with a tree. Now it is an 8 foot fence and no tree. The direction the Sun travels from the picture is back to front. The shade from our house is there from morning till noon and is unchanged from the project. The shade from those houses behind us is cast before the fence. Neither of these things prevented the Bermuda from growing before. Around the tree canopy shade area yes. Was starting to see some effects but now it's gone. :)

    The goal of the project was to raise the area and remove the tree. Basically we are doubling the size of our backyard in terms of usable (for kids) space. Other goal is to not create a drainage problem. Before it was excellent drainage but obviously by raising it, we must be mindful not to create a problem. For instance, I have put in drain pipe for all of the gutter feeds to that area and daylighted that directly out the wall. Before it was on the plane of the yard. Not ideal green thinking wise but it's done. Now that area only takes on water from the plane of the yard surface itself. I do have a drainage question related to grading which I'll post on the landscape forum.

    Is there another grass that I should be using back there? It's not out of the question for me to have something completely different since the entire area save for about 5 feet, is surrounded by hardscapes (driveway, wall, patio, house). I'm open to any suggestion.

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Small correction. The shadow from the houses in the background are not cast before the fence depending on how close you are to the fence. So yes, a greater area in front of the fence will see shade sooner than it was before. But about half the left right distance was shaded ever sooner by the tree which is now gone.

  • texas_weed
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you have any doubts about shade Zoysia or Saint Augustine would work. For tough durable grass for traffic nothing beats Bermuda. Next is Zoysia, and Saint Augustine last. All are available in your area.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay. If you had bermuda and a tree back there before and it worked, then it should work again. I just saw that shade and panicked.

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks tw for the heads up on tri-tex. I am going to use them for the sod.

    This weekend I added 1.5 yards of topsoil+compost and realized that I need more base fill to get the grading right. It's like a bottomless pit. My yard keeps sucking up the dirt. Where does it go? :) I will have to work in more base clay fill then add a final layer of topsoil before laying the sod. I invested in 36 inch landscape rake. Wish I had done it sooner. Also, all the while that I have been putting in dirt, I have been using a 10 inch tamp to pack it in. Should I back off on using the tamp for the final layer of top soil?

  • texas_weed
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No tamp it all down, and water it in to get it to settle a bit. Just before you lay the sod you a rake to loosen up the top 1/2 inch or so. Lay the sod, then use a water roller to set the sod and firm the soil underneath.

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Update. This poor sod had a tough start due to a scheduling snafu. Fortunately it seems to have recovered. It's already pretty well rooted in to the soil since installation 5 days ago. Curiously there are two pieces of sod where half the piece (they were folded over) is slow to establish. In hindsight, I should have sodded the entire area. The area of overlap bordered by the topsoil in the picture are not ideal in terms of what is underneath (very thin layer of topsoil on top of existing grass). I may still work on this area by killing it off and redoing it. Otherwise, the final grading turned out better than expected. We had our first big rain event this week and even though the area is saturated from all the watering, there were no problems with the area draining.

    Picture is 5 days in to sodding after final clean up of area from project junk and setting the elevation of the sprinkler heads.

    Follow-up question: I am short a few pieces of sod in a couple of areas not shown. How important is it for me to get 419 sod from the same place as opposed to another vendor than is close by? Tri-tex is a bit of a haul for a few pieces.

    Thanks again all for the help with this project.

  • eltbee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is the before picture from back in May. It's a bit hard to tell from the photo the degree of drop off and the size of the yard. But if you look at the level of my old 6 foot fence along the back and compare it with the fence behind us which is level, there was about a 3 foot drop. Now our 8 foot fence is level on the top and there is a 1 foot drop from house to corner. By removing the tree and raising the area, we have doubled the effective size of our small back yard.

    The estimates I got to do this work ranged from $3-5K. I did it for about $1K in materials. What I didn't plan on was the amount of my time that was required to pull it off. Definitely would have been worth it to pay someone else given the cost of my time. Final tally on fill materials was 10 yards of clay and 7 yards of topsoil all done by hand.

  • texas_weed
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Follow-up question: I am short a few pieces of sod in a couple of areas not shown. How important is it for me to get 419 sod from the same place as opposed to another vendor than is close by? Tri-tex is a bit of a haul for a few pieces.

    Thank you for your support. As long as it is certified 419 does not make much difference as it will acclimate to your area in a year.

    Keep it watered, start mowing now, and feed it in 3 weeks.