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| Hello all,
I'm trying to improve my soil before this fall when I plan on seeding. The areas I'm working on currently have NO grass growing there. Actually grass can't grow there because the soil is so compacted and in terrible shape. This is what I'm doing to try and improve it. I'm taking my pitchfork and twisting the top inch of soil until it breaks up, then I'm putting down a combination of 50% topsoil, 25% compost/hummus, and 25% peat moss and mixing it all in. Is there anything wrong with this method? The top inch of soil is so compacted and dry, should I just remove it or mix it back in? Thanks!
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Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Fri, Jul 15, 11 at 22:43
| The worst thing I can think of with that method is you will tend to go deeper than 1 inch. I am not thrilled with any of it. Tell us more about the bare spot. How often do you water it and what kind of grass used to grow there? But wait! Let me guess. You used to have fescue growing there but it thinned out one year and got nothing but worse. Eventually it thinned and thinned and now there is no need to water it. Once you stop watering, the soil gets hard. It does not get compacted, though, just hard. Here is the recipe for compacting soil. Get a bunch of soil.
In all my years of reading forums, only one person actually had compacted soil - and that was from an 18-wheeler getting off the road while backing into a shed during spring thaw. The back wheels of the tractor got stuck and he had to rock the whole rig back and forth to get out. What a mess! I'm a strong believer in the healing powers of moisture. The best way to soften your soil is to cover it with mulch (as much as you can afford) until you want to seed. Then pull the mulch off. The soil will be ready to go. If you wanted to tune that up a little, scatter alfalfa pellets at 10-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet and spray with molasses before you cover it with mulch. You don't even really have to water but it would not hurt to get things going. You could scatter the alfalfa and spray the molasses in from a hose end sprayer. That would be enough moisture. Then mulch. |
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| I changed my soil management techniques years ago to incorporate some of David's ideas about the use of moisture. I now have a soil that is extremely soft, and has a "springy" feel to it when you walk on it. My wife says that it is like a mild form of walking on a mattress that returns immediately to its original shape. The soil life is also crazy good. |
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- Posted by dchall_san_antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Sat, Jul 16, 11 at 22:50
| Andy is a bona fide lawn guru and soil testing wizard. Now that you have his attention, you might want to get a soil test done at Logan Labs and post it. Andy has tons of experience reading soil tests from there and solving the worlds problems, one lawn at a time. |
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| I'll give an alternate opinion. I've been gradually renovating over an acre of turf on my property. Too big to do all at once, so done in sections. The first areas I did, I did not till the soil. Those areas, four years later, continue to struggle in the summer. They go dormant quickly, and are thin afterward. The areas I rototilled to a depth of four inches became established quickly, and even in their first year, required no additional water to stay green. Same seed, same soil, same sunlight and rainfall. IMO, it's a no-brainer. Farmers till their soil before they plant their crops. The PSU Extension literature, and nearly every lawn book, recommends tilling your soil before you plant grass. The delay in re-establishing soil chemistry pales in comparison to the delay in roots penetrating the soil. When I dig now in the non-tilled areas, I see the roots stopping just a few inches deep, and I still can barely get the spade in any deeper. I'd actually recommend you do more tilling than you are. You want the top 4 inches pretty loose, and uniformly so. This would be a good time to add organic matter and lime, if needed. Till it all in together. They are those who say the opposite. Ask them what actual evidence they have to say what they do. Read what's actually published. |
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| Here is my actual evidence that what DCHALL is saying works. This lawn is in Day 10 without any irrigation or rain, due to an emergency 100% watering ban. The soil still feels "springy". The photo was taken 1 hour ago. The one area that I had to disturb the soil a year ago to install an irrigation system experienced a massive Poa Annua invasion that took me months to control. Undisturbed soils with good moisture management and good soil chemistry can stand up a long time without intervention. |
Here is a link that might be useful: July 17 Lawn on Day 10 without Water
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| Sorry, but that's still called "anecdotal" evidence. You somehow have convinced yourself that whatever happens in your lawn is applicable to all other lawns, regardless of age or level of neglect. Common sense says this is not so. There's no way you can know what the OP's soil needs, you haven't seen it, you haven't stuck a trowel in it. Neither have I. That's why he should stick with common sense and the recommendations of pretty much every published source, and till the soil before planting. There's very good reasons why that has traditionally been done. I had to learn it the hard way. |
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| Dave11: Anecdotal? How about "empirical"? As in "this is what can happen in the Real World" with DCHALL's approach. The academics were the ones that did most of the Imprelis testing - why don't you post THEIR great expertise? Or better yet, how about posting your lawn as empirical evidence. Stop hiding behind you textbooks and show what all your textbook reading has delivered in the real world. And stop with the "sorry, but" junk. You are not a judge that I or anyone else needs to submit to. Post your lawn and let's see... |
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| Hi, I was the original poster of this question. I may have overstated that my soil was compacted. When plying it, the top 1/8 inch would stay intact in large pieces, even though that area of my yard would get the same amount of water as the rest of my yard, which has been 20 minutes every other morning. I was more interested in amending the soil and adding organic matter to it. I only posted this to be sure that I wasn't hurting anything...just looking for second opinions, and I have to admit that I was suprised when it was suggested that I use alfalfa pellets and to water it with molasses. I'm sure that everyone has much more experience than I do, but alfalfa and molasses is lost on me. I wouldn't even know where to look for this stuff. I'm sure that it does a lawn good, but as a beginner I need to take smaller steps. Perhaps there is a rookie forum that I should post at, and a technical forum for all the experts to post? I appreciate all your input. Dan |
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| I totally get the alfalfa pellets, but not the reasoning behind the molassas on the lawn. Anyone care to explain that one? Currently I had to go through and do a nearly total burn down with Round-up and RD40 to kill off all the dandelions, broadleaf, thistles and another type of prickly weed. So I am going around reading up on repairing the big holes in the yard adding compost across the whole yard too. Hubs wants to grow a KB in the front and a more durable grass in the back for the dogs. But if KB isn't good in shade, I'm not going to be able to use a KB there. I've got a maple planted and an American basswood. Suggestions, ideas? :) ~Bright Blessings all |
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| Molasses acts as a starter food source for the soil microbial life. Those microbes convert more complex organic food sources from proteins to basics like Nitrogen. Molasses can also assist with the breakdown of thatch just above the soil line. Alfalfa also is the best natural source of Triacontanol, a natural plant growth hormone. |
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| Ament: how much shade are we talking about? There is no grass that will grow in all shade. Dan: this is simple. Throw down some alfalfa pellets and spray on some molasses from a hose end sprayer. Done |
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| Ah That is very good information to know, about the molassas and alfalfa pellets. I used to feed both in my grain mix to my horse! Haha! Thank you for the knowledge! As for the shade, It's not a huge coverage on the lawn. And I am going to trim up the bottom of the Basswood this fall. So it'll be even less shaded under the tree. Currently, the maple is only in its second season in my yard. It was about a ft tall when I got it, it's nearly 3ft now. I need to plant a grass seed that will tolerate high heat in both the front and back. The back gets far more traffic than the front due to the dogs in and out. Before the burn down, the lawn was very thin, the grass would lay down right away if anyone walked on it. I don't believe whatever was here prior was a stout type of grass that could handle any traffic at all, much less a great dane and a blue heeler! I know the soil isn't packed down, except maybe right at the base of the steps. Which can be fixed with my hand tiller. |
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