>>My front yard is the laughing stock of the neighborhood. A neighbor managed to make sure I knew that the day my family moved in.

Nice of them. I have new neighbors moving in catty-corner to me, and yes, their lawn is extremely bad. They won't hear a word from me unless they ask.

>>Option 1: RU all weeds wait 5-7 days, RU again then rake and reseed.
Option 2: RU all weeds wait 5-7 days, RU again and then till, then power rake, level, then reseed

Option 3...RU the weeds, and even the entire lawn if it's very bad. Wait a week or so, then RU again. Mow as short as possible to get as much as possible up. Rake if you wish, and re-mow to remove what you raked.

You'll notice raking was optional. I knocked out a (very nice) bluegrass lawn to replace it with elite varieties. I didn't rake. I don't do raking. As long as your mower has a very short setting, mowing short is more than enough.

If you kill it out now, you have a month to keep after any sprouting weeds. Although there will be many that sprout when you seed (and water said seed), at least it might help a little bit.

You didn't mention your locale, but plan to be seeding around mid August, which is exactly the perfect time to seed (the window is open until about Labor Day). That will vary by where you are, but Zone 5 contains some assumptions (possibly invalid...)

You can choose whatever seed you prefer, but make absolutely certain the Other Crop Seed and Weed Seed sections on the label read very, very low numbers. If Noxious Weed numbers are anything other than 0.00% it's not good seed.

I have a preference for Pennington and Rebel seed mixes over Scott's. Other opinions differ, but I find Scott's advertising to be disingenuous at best.

Watering your new seed: Once daily is an absolute minimum, and not really adequate. Twice per day, morning and early evening, is much better. Three times per day, adding in an early afternoon watering, is best.

Moistening is sufficient, so ten to twenty minutes per area is enough unless the weather turns blistering hot. If it does, seed sprout will stall until temperatures cool again; grass does not sprout when soil temperatures are too warm, but it still needs to be kept moist.

If the mix you choose contains Kentucky bluegrass (it should as it's a spreading grass that repairs itself), plan to be watering for a month. Your other varieties, ryes and fescues, will sprout in 7-14 days, but the bluegrass really does require 30 days to fully sprout. You'll be glad you did this later.

Once 30 days is past, remove one of the watering per day but increase the length on the other(s) a bit. Two weeks later, reduce by another watering per day. Two weeks after that, you should be every other day and about 30 minutes per area.

If temperatures are really starting to drop, you can immediately go to "as-needed" watering at this point. If not, keep adding in a day to the schedule every 2 weeks and increasing watering times.

The eventual goal is weekly watering, delivering 1" of water at a time (either from nature or from your hose).

More next...

Now a warning.

If the reason the lawn is terrible is because the soil is terrible, your pretty new lawn will look great for a while and then start to fail. Seeds contain all the elements the new grass needs for a time, but after that they must be provided by the soil. If they're not present, the grass won't do well.

It's always a good idea to get a soil test if you suspect this is the case. Logan Labs does excellent soil testing for $25.

Hard dirt can imply an organic matter shortage, too much magnesium (or too little calcium in relation to the magnesium), compaction, deflocculation, and so on.

Organic matter almost always helps, so I'd consider organic feedings with soybean meal, Milorganite, cracked corn, or whatever is available in your area. We can detail that for you if you're interested--but if you'd rather go synthetic, that's fine as well. I'd still like to see you slip in one organic feeding per year to work on the soil.

You'll see tons of recommendations for baby shampoo, Suave, or sodium laurel sulfate. For now, I'm not concerned with these, although you can certainly try them if you wish. They won't hurt. I find they work better if they're combined with liquid kelp or humic acid (or at least some sort of liquid organic material).

Really, we'll need you to investigate your soil a bit and let us know its condition.

Oh, and crabgrass is annoying but not particularly difficult to handle. Next year, try Weed B Gone with Crabgrass Control spot-sprayed onto your weeds and crabgrass (which is coming back no matter what you do now). That should one-shot kill the stuff.

One other thing to consider is shade. If your yard has big shade trees, your grass seed selection will shift toward fescues rather than Kentucky bluegrass.

Once you get the seed up, then things will settle down. If you do what morpheuspa does, and tells you to do, you will have a much nicer lawn than your catty neighbor. It is not that much work to do it yourself. It's just watering, mowing, and fertilizing.

Note that rototilling is off the table. I was looking some stuff up this past week and found the websites where they recommend rototilling. It was both Pennington and Scott's. DON'T DO THAT. Rototilling is something that has questionable value even for a vegetable garden, but it is an unquestionably bad idea for a lawn. It will leave your lawn bumpy in a few years.

We really do need to know where you live.

I cant believe you have all of this information!
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond it means a great deal. I am in Littleton, Colorado (80128). Do you have a recommendation on a type of grass for my area?
Do you suggest after Option 3, that I let the lawn do its thing until mid-august?
Im assuming the reasoning behind that would be to allow any additional weeds that may have been missed to resurface. Then reseed the entire area at that time and water as you have instructed.
Once I have the soil tested, I’m assuming with the results we would just modify our plans from there?

My order should be to cut the grass as low as possible then start the RU process. Do not leave it overgrown?
And I already have some leveling problems at what point in the process should I try to combat this?
After round up and before seeding?

I hope my follow up helps. Please let me know if I can answer anything more specific.

Thank you!!!!

I can't believe he has that much information either. He's the Lawn Whisperer.

If you're really going to do Option 3, I would suggest watering daily after the first app of RoundUp. That will germinate any seeds in the grass. Then the next app of RU will take those new seedlings out.

If you have full sun, you can use Kentucky bluegrass. If you have some shade you can mix fescue varieties in with the KBG seed. Fescues need to be overseeded annually in the fall. That's the main reason I asked about shade.

After the second app of RU, then tend to the leveling. Give the RU a day to be sure it worked and then get after the leveling. Have you searched this forum for topics on leveling? It is very easy to do wrong, so do some research. As a start, NEVER ROTOTILL to prepare for grass. That is the biggest mistake people make. All of the leveling topics were for bermuda, but if you are using RU, the process would be the same. In a nutshell you scalp or kill off the grass, apply just enough sand to fill the holes and low spots, drag a drag over top to smooth it out, water it to settle the sand, add more sand if/where needed, drag, water, add, drag, water, etc., until you are happy with it. You can make it putting green smooth like this.

After you seed, roll the seed down with a water fillable roller to ensure it makes good contact with the soil. Then you do not need to cover it with anything, but many landscapers do. Certainly if you do not roll it, then you will need something. It's just easier to roll it down. If the area is small, just walk over it all to press the seed into the soil.

Here is a picture of a drag mat.

{{gwi:108846}}

It looks a lot like a chain link fence. I personally use...chain link fence. My fence was not heavy enough so I put some boards on top and a bag of topsoil. Your mileage will vary. This leaves an excellent surface, though. Drag from the lowest area to the highest area for proper drainage. The drag will not move much soil, but no sense fighting against what you're trying to do.

Can you post a picture of the lawn so we can see what leveling issues you might be dealing with?

Littleton Colorado?

Buffalo grass! It needs less water, less fertilizer and less mowing than the fescues.

Also, before you get into lawn prep, how much of that lawn can you get rid of? If you widen the walks, add a front terrace, and plant ground cover ... what's left? Do you have an HOA that specifies X% water-guzzling grasses?

>>I can't believe he has that much information either. He's the Lawn Whisperer.

I'm more like the Lawn Yeller. Even I have spotty fungal issues this year...it rains. Every. Single. Day.

If you choose to get a soil test, we modify plans on the fly as we go. While I have some expectations for Colorado soils, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right--and even if I am, that anything can (or has to be) done about any issues.

Sometimes you just realize you can't fight nature so you work with her instead. :-)

I tend to agree on buffalo grass. It's so much more tolerant of your conditions. Fescues and/or bluegrass will require constant watering, and I still wouldn't put much hope in them looking good in July.

And yes, never rototill for lawns. You disturb the natural bacterial and fungal distribution, inject oxygen into layers that don't want oxygen injected into them, bring up weed seeds stamped with the year 1862 (but are still perfectly viable), and destroy the natural drainage in the soil.

In other words, ick.

You guys are awesome!!! Bring on the weekend!
I will take photos A.S.A.P to give you a better idea of what I am working with.
I do have shade trees in the front lawn.
The drag mat seems pretty simple but efficient.
- Would you recommend the buffalo grass then for the area, and for the shade?
-How would you suggest to scalp or kill off the grass for the leveling process?
- Is there specific sand that should be used for this since I would like to seed after (play sand)?
-Once the leveling is done and I have done the drag would I reapply soil before seed?

This seems to be turning into a plan!
RU the weeds
Water every day
Wait a week or so, then RU again.
Mow as short as possible to get as much as possible up.
Wait one day and then level.
apply just enough sand to fill the holes and low spots, drag a drag over top to smooth it out, water it to settle the sand, add more sand if/where needed
then start the process of seeding mid-august

^absolute Plagiarism above hahaha

This post was edited by Becca_303 on Wed, Jul 16, 14 at 16:40

I'm going to show you two pictures of really great lawns. One is the best ($$$) buffalo hybrid you can buy and the other is a conglomeration of prairie wheatgrasses and blue grama.

{{gwi:79833}}

{{gwi:79340}}

Both of these require about the same care. The reason the buffalo (Turffalo) is so expensive is that it grows dense and spreads rapidly. See it trying to consume the sidewalk? Every variety of buff will have those seed heads and flowers giving it a brownish cast. The seeded varieties of buffalo will send those seed heads up fast so it looks shaggy about 3-4 days after you mow. This variety forms the seed heads in the same time, but the stalks do not grow up taller than the grass like other varieties. It looks less shaggy but still has the brown cast. Turffalo will establish best in June and will form a dense, weed-resistant turf. Seeded varieties will form a thin turf which allows all manner of weeds to invade.

The wheatgrasses and blue grama also have seed heads but you don't see them for a month. They are slow growing and don't need much water. It just sits there and looks like that most of the time. This lawn looks dense because it was seeded and overseeded until he had the density he was looking for. These grasses do not spread to repair themselves if they thin out or get damaged.

None of these grasses grows in the shade. They all need full sun.

Does that help with your decision?

Forgot a couple answers.

Play sand is not the best for this. You want the sand that they use to make mortar for brick work. Ask at the box store.

You would not need soil on top of sand. Sand has to be the last thing on top or else you have to drag it again. The reason for sand is the inevitable clods in soil will roll around under the drag and leave grooves in the surface. Unless you pulverize the soil first, just stick with sand.

One last thing or two to say about buffalo. If you get a seeded variety, you can try and try to make it nice but the catty neighbors are going to hate it. It will never be in competition for any awards. I'm trying to discourage you from buffalo unless you want to spend the money for Turffalo.

Kill the existing lawn with RoundUp. Scalp it down with your mower at the lowest setting, rake the fluff away, and level through the stubble. The longer the stubble is, the more sand you will use to level it. Then seed into the sand, roll the seed down, and start watering.

- Would you recommend the buffalo grass then for the area, and for the shade?

Like David shows, it does depend on what you like. On the up side, neither buffalo grass nor blue grama require a great deal of water once established, although I think blue grama is a warm season grass.

-How would you suggest to scalp or kill off the grass for the leveling process?

Spray first, scalp when it starts to fade. Doing it the other way around is a recipe for having some grass survive, although a second spraying will take care of that.

You'll need to second spray anyway, but this way it's only to take out a few missed grasses and weeds.

- Is there specific sand that should be used for this since I would like to seed after (play sand)?

Sharp sand, or builder's sand.

Play sand is tumbled to be smaller particles and much smoother. That's great for sandboxes, but in the soil it means it has more opportunity to compact, and provides less aeration as it works in (and it will work in).

Technically, it's still sand...but if it got much smaller, it'd start being large silt particles. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I have silt. I love silt. It's just not optimal for topdressing.

I just found this GW topic about wheatgrass lawns. The replies are from the owner of the lawn above, bpgreen.