So, of course I find some further information minutes after posting... Looks like the second mix is fairly outdated. Falcon is up to Falcon V and the rest of the seed was in the 2000-2001 NTEP compared to more modern seed in the first mix. The first also has some spreading ability.

My other issue, just looked at the Oliger website and I can;t remember which Fescue mix my local place has (they are similar) here is the other just in case...

16.6% Rhambler SRP Tall Fescue
16.6% Cochise IV Tall Fescue
16.6% Inferno Tall Fescue
16.6% Bullseye Tall Fescue
16.6% 3rd Millennium SRP or Firecracker LS Tall Fescue
16.6% Traverse SRP Tall Fescue

^ I think THAT actually might be what I have available, because I don't recall the TTTF mix having any KBG in it. (Although again I plan to add)

..and I forgot to indicate the area is full sun.

I'm not yet a TTTF expert, just starting out with it in the next couple of weeks, but I've been doing a lot of research. I just want to point out a couple of things you may have overlooked:

-Blends and mixes are one seed option; another option is buying individual cultivars (though as others have mentioned elsewhere on the board, you're sometimes limited to 50+ lb bags of seed.

-I plan to seed my TF seperately from my KBG. Since the seed sizes are so disparate, I feel better doing them serially. The reason is I'm concerned about the KBG filtering through the spreader faster and coming out 'all at once'.

-Older cultivars are not necessarily inferior to newer ones in all cases. Selective breeding is a tradeoff. You strengthen one aspect of a grass's performance, and you might weaken another in the process. An example of a cultivar that's getting old now, but is still reknowned is Midnight KBG. I believe it dates back to at least 1985. You're doing the right thing by going by the NTEP data.

Mix 1 and 3 contain excellent cultivars and will produce a very nice lawn. Mix 2 is probably good too, but as you pointed out, they are older varieties, and TTTF research and development has really taken off in the past 10 years. Mix 1 is a bit low in KBG to give a 50:50 mix, but it is a good cultivar that should blend well with TTTF. Brooklawn is a good all around cultivar. I would also prefer seeding the TTTF and KBG separately. Its a bit more work, but you ensure even coverage of both seed types.

Tiemco - With mix 3 do you think I should leave it alone or go ahead and mix in some KBG?

It's totally up to you. If you don't add KBG now, it is much harder to overseed a TTTF lawn with KBG later unless it has really thinned out, and at that point you might get uneven results. You have quite a few TTTF cultivars in that mix that tiller aggressively and have high rhizome activity. This doesn't mean it's going to spread like KBG, but it will fill in slowly. My lawn is Faith, Cochise IV, and Firecracker LS, seeded in 2009, and I have yet to overseed because the lawn doesn't need it. It's density is high, and I have had some voids close during the growing season. That being said, adding KBG isn't a bad idea, as it will provide genetic diversity, and spreading ability. You can still have some issues with a mix such as different winter dormancy times. Color and texture matching issues. Different water requirements when mature. Summer dormancy differences. Shade tolerance differences. I'm not trying to worry you, many seed growers recommend their KBG for mixing with TTTF, just had to put that disclaimer in. If you decide to do so I would probably stay away from super dark cultivars, i.e., the compact Midnights, Blueberry, Prosperity, and a few others. Most of the compact Americas would be good choices due to their slightly lighter color, good shade tolerance, and shorter winter dormancy.

Hmm... yeah I don't know. Decisions, decisions... Like you said the mix is already pretty diverse with 6 different TTTFs, several of them being tiller and rhizome capable. But, the KBG will give the diversity of a different angle...

I was hoping you would push me strongly one way, LOL

In reality 6 different TTTF cultivars are not all that diverse. Sure there will be some genetic differences, but on the whole most TTTF cultivars have highly conserved DNA. KBG on the other hand is an entirely different species and genus from TTTF, thus the genetic diversity. KBG also has much more diversity genetically between it's groups, that is why you have classifications such as compact midnights, mid-atlantics, shamrock, etc. A pretty good analogy would be cats and dogs. TTTF would be the cats, most cats all look pretty much the same in terms of size and shape, where KBG is more like dogs in that the varieties are much greater, and more distinct. The genetic diversity would be much greater in a group of cats and dogs than just cats.

There we go buddy.. Some KBG it is.

Just found 50lbs of this stuff for $95 shipped. Drastically cheaper than $3.99/pound (or was it $2.99) for the others. Wonder what you think. Even though it does have a lot of Bullseye, I'm thinking it's not as good.

49.86% Bullseye
19.63% Magellan
29.75% Hemi

I have bought most of my seeds from The Hogan Company in Tennessee. Generally they charge about $1.50-1.70 per pound of TTTF. Seeds, like anything else, are a commodity. Some places charge way too much, like the Seed Superstore, which they can do if they want, it's a free country, but it's like charging way to much for say corn or wheat. Also, the more you buy, the less it will be, and since most seed comes in 50 lb. sacks, that is one of the most economical sizes to buy. The Bullseye, Magellan, Hemi blend is a good blend, at a good price as long as the tag on the bag says there are no noxious weeds, and the seed percentage is high. Sod quality would be ideal, but not everyone carries that.

Ibanz...where did you find that mix for that price if you dont mind sharing? That is exactly what I am looking to buy. Thanks!

I'm assuming your talking about the bullseye mix...

I found it from another forum. A company called SLE Equipment sells it cheap. I could no longer find it on there website but found this;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50LB-BAG-PRIME-TIME-TALL-FESCUE-TURF-GRASS-SEED-/180618331402

Apparently if you actually call the company you can get it cheaper, or at least get cheaper shipping if you may be close to them.

Had my local place order me in a 50lb bag of Mix #1. I feel like I got a good deal on it. $2.99/pound but gave me 10% off for getting a full bag. I also had a 20% off coupon on any one item. So after tax it came to something like $114.

Picking up the skidsteer and harley rake tomorrow. Of course, it's going to be in the mid 90s. (not seeding for a couple days) Wish me luck...

Luck was not with me. Not only was I doing the lawn, but also finishing a river rock border, and spreading remaining dirt from a pool install a few years ago, and adjusting the grade.

By the end of the second day, machine work was done and we had made it through 3/4s of the final grade by hand, but ran out of daylight. Planned on getting up in the AM to finish and then seed. Overnight we had the remnants of the hurricane here in OH and had a torrential downpour. Not only did it wash out a lot of my "powder" type dirt, but turned everything to mud making it impossible to continue the finish grade until it dried out. ...well it's now a week later and we keep getting rain. I'M MAD. Spent all this time and money and can't even finish. Now, mother nature is really pushing back my seeding and I'm getting nervous it will be too late by the time I'm able to get it down.

We have rain another two days, then it looks dry and sunny for 3 days at the beginning of the week. However, with really cool temps, so not sure if it will dry it out. Plus, not sure what the end of next week looks like yet. Hoping it's dry through next weekend and I can get the seed down. (also a pain having to let my two large dogs out in the front yard)

Here's a couple progress PICS

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Mother nature can be a real b#@ch sometimes. Just be glad you didn't seed before the rain.

I know, I keep thinking the upside is that I didn't get it done and get a washout. Still frustrating and disappointing.

By the looks of it, I should have a whole dry week and be able to get it done by the end of next weekend. I hope she rewards me and doesn't rush a quick fall. ...with the way the seasons have been shifting, mid-sept. should still be OK.
Luckily not doing kentucky, although typing that just made me realize there is that small amount of Kentucky in the mix :-/

Hey Dude, you did one helluva good job of prepping that seedbed. I know it didn't work out to fit your schedule, but don't sweat what you can't control. You still have a window of opportunity to accomplish your goal. You're gonna be fine.

Thanks buddy. I'm hoping... forecast looks good for the week as of now. But living in Cleveland, that doesn't mean much.

Of course, I've now got random sprouts of grass and weeds wanting to come up. Went and hit them with some killer today.

Ground is starting to dry up good. 40% chance of rain on Friday (I hope not!). As long as that goes well, I plan on getting out Saturday to loosen everything back up, and then my old man is going to come over Sunday to help finish the grade again and seed.

Fingers crossed...

Today is the day...

Got it done, will post some pictures up in the next few days.

Question - I've got night time temps dipping into the mid to low 40s. Days, some low 60s. ..a few days this week will hit low 70s.

Think the night time temps will slow things down?

You cannot control the air temperatures. What you can control is the water that you apply. Just make sure the seed stays moist and let the germination process move forward. Those air temperature ranges may set you back a couple of days as they cool the soil temperatures slightly, but you should still be able to see germination in a reasonable time frame.

Did you seed TTTF or KBG? I couldn't really tell from the previous posts.

I seeded the first mix in the first post.. which is all fescue with just under 7% of KBG. Hoping the fescue has enough time to get nice & established before our winter. Last year was extremely mild and wouldn't worry me, but if we have a typical winter, it needs some time. ...I'm thinking no matter what the KBG is gonna have a hard time, but being such a small % I'm not too concerned.

This evening will be day 6. Curious to see if anything is coming up when I get home later. Nothing as of yesterday, although I know it's still early, especially with the cool weather.

Quick question. Had rain earlier in the week which kept things damp so I kept the sprinklers off. When I left for work yesterday I turned the timer back on due to a sunny day, to run 3 times, not realizing it was going to rain later in the day. Now, due to all the rain and moisture, my soil is turning a bit green. I would assume algae. Will it hurt anything? After more rain tonight, looks like we'll get some dry weather for a few days so I'll keep the sprinklers off till it nearly dries.

I've got red nipples!!! LOL... went out this evening, day 7, and found very very very few hair like green sprouts. Upon closer look, getting on my hands and knees and looking level to the ground (neighbors must think I'm nuts), I found red tips all over just barely breaking the surface. WooHoo! I was concerned with the amount of rain, possible wash out, and cold weather.

Last battle is tonight's frost advisory. :-/ It includes my county, but I'm the furthest north in he county towards Lake Erie. Lake Erie is suppose to keep the surrounding area warm enough to keep the frost away. ...rest of the week is ideal temps.

SOMEONE PUT ME AT EASE..

I've got the green haze look. But, am pretty concerned. ...it's coming in uneven. I'm got some area where there is clearly green sprouts, and then other areas where just dirt. It seems like all the green are in patches where the straw is a little thicker, and then some patches of little to no straw where I have no germination.

I'm wondering if I got washed out, and the areas of thicker straw held up better and also caught the seed of other areas ?

BTW, I don't think it could be because of the typical straw holding moisture better. We've had enough rain where the ground has stayed consistently wet. (Almost too much)

Tiemco? Anyone else?

The only positive idea I can think of is that the straw incubated the seed a bit and helped hold temps and it is germinating faster. I'm at day 12.

At 12 days I would expect to see most, if not all, germination from TTTF unless soil temps have gotten very low. When you get washout, usually you get areas thick with seedlings at the lower portions below the washout area. You wrote that the areas are bare with no straw. Did you put straw there, or was it washed away? In your bare areas I would check to see if there is any seed, and if that seed has root hairs, or a tiny root. If you can't find any seeds, then it's obvious you have washout. If seeds stay too wet, and it's warm, you can get some seed rot, but that isn't typical.

Yeah it's weird. I did straw everything, but certain areas got "clumpy" which I assume was from washing. In more detail, there was areas that would be 4-6in of dirt and 4-6in of clumped straw. The weird thing is it was not consistent with the grade or what you would expect to see if it washed.
I do have an decent size patch of grass near the bottom, but also patches at the top and middle. Again not very consistent.
Pretty sure due to wash though.
Anyway I'd love to get out there today to seed over the thin areas, but it's so wet any step on the lawn leaves a foot imrpession and I sink a bit. So.. gonna have to let it dry a bit.

Put some more seed on it. Wait to see. Really pushing the dates..