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leo_in_md

How to restart lawn with "No Mow" Fescue?

leo_in_md
11 years ago

My current lawn is about 11-12K sq ft. The grass on the lawn is a mixture of everything, probably K-31, other unknown variety, crabgrass, and other weeds.

I want to kill all of these and plant "No Mow" fescue from Prairie Nursery. Because I usually have very little time to tend my lawn. Not to mention that I don't really like mowing, not to mention in summer. :(

I live on Kent Island, Eastern Shore, Maryland. The soil is mostly clay with 1-2 inch of dark top soil on top perhaps because years of mulching. Some part of the lawn has a slope of 45 degrees.

There are a couple of areas in my back yard however (1000 sq ft in total) that does not drain well and will collect water during heavy or an all day rain. I wonder how can I best improve the drainage. I see another past post from last year, where some recommended to mix with sand, but some said mix with compost (or was it mulch?). Do I need to till it?

Anyway, due to the large amount of work and my limited time to do this, my plan is to do the front and side yard for this year (7K sq ft) and do the back yard next year.

I originally planned to use large black plastic bags (3'x4.5') to kill the existing lawn. After trying to do it yesterday, I realized that it's a lot of work. Although I put sticks and woods on them, the blowing wind makes it difficult to do it. Not to mention I need over 500 bags to do it. :(

So I decided to just use Roundup.

I called Roundup and the rep said that after 7 days I could plant new seed. Well I plan to till the ground first after 7 days since Prairie Nursery recommend to till it.

Roundup rep suggested that I do not mow the lawn because Roundup works through the grass blades. Unfortunately, I just cut the grass yesterday. So I'll just wait about 3 days (on Sept 2nd) to spray Roundup and till the ground on the 9th. Then I will spread the seed on the next weekend, which should be a pretty good temperature (not higher than low 80s on average).

Please see the instruction by Prairie Nursery here:

http://www.prairienursery.com/store/images/file/nomow2003.pdf

I will be using either a drop spreader or broadcast spreader. I do have Scott Accugreen 3000 and Speedygreen 3000. Which one would be best and at what setting?

It is also recommended to rake or drag a piece of chain link fence so that the seed is covered with 1/8 or 1/4 inch of soil. They also recommended to firm the soil with roller or other methods.

Are all of these steps (tilling, raking, and firming) necessary?

Last step would be covering the lawn with one inch of straws.

They recommend using erosion blanket for steep slopes. I'm not sure how many degrees is considered steep. I really don' t wish to use it if possible since these blankets are expensive. I imagine I may need it for the ditch area though.

I want to attach some pictures to show the slopes and ditch. How can I attach pictures here?

Here is a link that might be useful: Prairie Nursery No Mow seeding instruction

Comments (11)

  • grass1950
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why would you chose a grass that specifically states not to plant in clay or in areas of poor drainage?
    Did you also notice that they state that this grass grows to 2'?
    I know of no gras that is so low maintenance that it takes care of itself. I'm afraid you are chasing rainbows.
    If you don't have time to maintain a lawn, you might want to consider clover.

  • leo_in_md
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My overall lawn has pretty good drainage, only on those two small areas that the drainage aren't really well.

    Yes, the grass may grow to 2', but really slow. I don't mind cutting every 3 weeks or once a month. Just not once a week.

  • leo_in_md
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Regardless of the blend that I choose, if I want to restart my lawn, after killing the existing lawn, do I really need to do all these steps:
    tilling, raking, and firming?

    How to improve drainage on clay-ish soil. Should I till it with sand? Or should I till with compost (or was it mulch?).

    I can show a picture of my existing lawn if I know how to attach an image here. :(

  • leo_in_md
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, but you don't have to cut and paste if it's a lot of work for you. You can give me just the link.

  • grass1950
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I couldn't find a write up by dchall, besides bing an organic furu, he does an excellent lawn seeding write up. If you're interested in a slightly different take, do a sight search for "dchall" and check some of his seeding advice.

    This one is by tiemco, he is a seed and soil guru, and this is one of the best seeding step by steps:

    ":RE: The order of rehabing a fescue lawn

    Posted by tiemco 6ct (My Page) on Mon, Aug 20, 12 at 21:56

    Well I seem to do a write up every year regarding this, so here goes. When you kill everything and start fresh it's called a renovation. To do it correctly, one usually starts with a soil test in the spring to give you enough time to add amendments to bring your deficient macro and micro nutrients up to a good level. You said you are adding lime. Is this due to a low pH, or is it just something you generally do? Are you using calcitic or dolomitic? Anyway, lime should be added either way before or way after seeding, say a month at the least. It will take a while for lime to dissolve, and if you apply it at seeding you can get interactions with starter fertilizer and the very top layer of soil can have a much higher pH than you want. So if you are going to lime, either do it now, or wait till a month or two after you seed. For Round-Up to work its best, the grass and weeds need to be actively growing. Watering a few times a week prior to applying Round-up and after applying will make it more effective. Once you notice the grass starting to die, usually in 4-7 days, you will want to mow it as low as you can before it lays down. Once it's down, it's a lot harder to mow. Many people allow a period of fallowing at this point, applying water to get any dormant grass to reanimate, and any rogue weed seeds to germinate. If you aren't going to fallow, that's fine, it's optional. So now you have a brown lawn, and the soil should be fairly moist from the waterings. The next step that I like to do is power rake, especially if you have thatch, or the soil is obscurred by dead grass. TTTF seeds are pretty big, and they can have trouble getting to the soil if thatch is an issue or you have a lot of dead grass matted down. You can skip this step if you want, it's optional, but I like to do it. It also loosens up the top inch or so of soil. After a power raking, either rake up all the loose dead stuff, or use your mower with the bag to remove it. Now you are ready to seed. I like to do all the prep work the day before, and the seeding the next day early. A light watering the night before seeding is also a good idea. So now you're ready to seed. Use a broadcast or drop spreader, whatever you feel more comfortable with. Apply the correct amount of seed, more is not better. If it says 8-10 lbs per 1000 square feet, shoot for 9. Make multiple passes in different directions to make sure you have even coverage. If you do this, be sure you lower the setting on the seeder so you don't put down too much on the first pass. Once all the seed is down you have a few options. One is do nothing. Some people like to roll the seed with a water filled roller. Some people like to top dress the seed. Some people like to do both. If I could only do one, I would topdress. Another thing some people do is apply Tenacity herbicide at the time of seeding. If you have a lot of weeds, or anticipate a lot of weeds it can really help reduce them at seeding. Now that the seed is down, and you rolled the seed and or topdressed, an application of starter fertilizer is a good idea. I like to use a half app at this time, the other half after the first mowing. You can use a full app if you want, but with all the watering you do I feel that you lose a lot of that full app due to leaching. Now it's time to water. Watering is probably the single biggest factor in success. The seeds need to be moist continually until they have all germinated. This generally means three light waterings per day. If you have a sprinkler system, then you are golden. If not, you need to set up hoses with timers. You can do this when you water prior to rounding up. Make sure the whole lawn gets adequate coverage. You are watering to keep the seed moist, so no puddling. Generally this means 5-15 minute watering cycles depending on your water pressure and coverage. Three times a day is generally enough. Then all you have to do is worry about your seeds, and the weather, and everything else that can go wrong. Once all the seed is up, and you see the green fuzz, you can start to cut back on the waterings to twice a day for about a week, then once a day for a week, then every other day, etc. Your first mowing should take place about a month after seeding, or when the new grass is 3 inches tall. Mow it down to 2. I'm sure I forgot some things, so please ask questions, and this isn't the only way to go, but it has worked for me very well."

    Good luck to you on your project.

  • grass1950
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's one by dchall from "Starting Over" original post 8/27/12. I had to lift it out of context because..., well because dchall is always being dchall:

    "Are you going to nuke your old lawn with Roundup? I think you want to. Spray it once and wait a week for everything to die. Continue to water so you can see anything left alive. Then spray again to kill the stuff that did not die the first time. Wait a week to make sure it died.

    Then get rid of the old stuff with a vertical rake. Set it to just barely graze the soil and it will rake everything for you. Blow or rake that into your compost pile.

    Seed or sod.

    Roll with a water fillable roller (rented).

    Water every day, 3x per day, for 10 minutes each time. Do that until you get 80% germination or until the sod knits into the soil. Then back off on the watering.

    Mow whenever the grass is tall enough to mow.

    Fertilize with organics any time. Fertilize with chemicals after the summer heat is really over.

    Do not get any ideas about rototilling. You want this to be a good install, so don't till it. Tilling results in a lawn that gets bumpier and bumpier over the next 3 years as the tilled soil settles. Tilling is not a good idea for veggie gardens but people get away with it because they are rolling a vehicle through it every weekend."

    OK. That's it from me. Once again, good luck.

  • leo_in_md
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you sooo much grass1950 for copy pasting these.
    Thanks for your help so far and for being so patient with me. I really really appreciate it. :)

    Oh man, I'm glad I don't have to do tilling. Yes, I imagine if you till, then you would have to use the roller.

    However raking, that would be tough if I have to rake the soil. It's not like raking loose leaves on top a grass.
    What kind of rake would you recommend? I have those plastic ones. I imagine that wouldn't be powerful enough. What is vertical rake?

    I am familiar with dchall's name. I used to be quite active few years ago on Lawn Care forum and also Hostas, then I became so busy and didn't have time to tend to my lawn and garden anymore. :(
    I almost forgot everything I learned here.

    Top dress is... what again? Isn't it like putting compost on top of soil with the seed?

    If I remember correctly thatch is like a thin layer of dead grass covering the soil?

  • dchall_san_antonio
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I did not catch up on this entire thread but got the gist from the last couple of replies. Tiemco do opposite things every once and awhile (or is it most of the time??). If I could only do one between rolling and top dressing, I would roll every time.

    Use a power rake if you have a big area to rake. It is a machine with vertical blades. Any machine with vertical blades will do. It will slice the vegetation and just barely scar the soil. Then you can rake up fluffy stuff or blow it into your compost pile.

    Thatch is dead grass but not dead grass clippings. It is dead grass plants where other green grass has grown up through it. People who water every day and foliar feed with liquid fertilizers every 2 weeks are prone to thatch. They have created a fragile ecosystem. Any sudden change to watering or feeding can kill off a lot of grass while still growing new grass. When you stick to traditional fertilizer (chemical or organic) on a traditional schedule (once in the late spring and twice in the fall), and you water deeply and infrequently, you should never see thatch.

  • leo_in_md
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi David, thanks for chiming in. :)

    OK. I will rent power rake and roller. I hope there's a rental in my area. I hope they have a hand pulled roller because I don't have a tractor.

    So since the soil won't be bare with the dead grass from Roundup, I wouldn't need straws or even erosion blanket right?
    How high do I want these dead grass though. Just wondering if I have to mow the dead grass to a certain height.

    Is it best to use broadcast or drop seeder?

  • leo_in_md
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi All,

    A few days ago, I also sent the same questions to Maryland's coop extension. This is what they said:

    ---

    The decision to rely on recommendations from another state is questionable, especially when that state is as far removed from Maryland as Wisconsin. Our climates, soils and other growing conditions differ dramatically. That being said, however, the use of Red Fescue and Sheep Fescue in Maryland lawns is possible. Another grass to consider is Hard Fescue. We occasionally recommend these grasses in situations such as yours, where there is a slope that is difficult to mow or where there is no foot traffic.

    When re-seeding, it is important that the seed be in good contact with the soil. That can be accomplished in various ways; certainly their recommendation would work, but there could be simpler ways: perhaps a garden rake could be used to abrade the soil before seeding, or a leaf rake used after seeding to gently agitate the seed to the surface of the soil. You could consider renting a slit seeder. Your broadcasters will work, but we are unable to determine the appropriate setting, since spreaders frequently go out of calibration. You may want to call the manufacturer of the spreader. Although it is not always necessary to cover the seed, it may be appropriate for you to sprinkle about 1/4 inch of compost or leafgro over the seed. As they suggested, you may be able to mix it with the compost, but covering it with a thin layer would work just as well. Straw can be helpful where there is the danger of erosion. It simply breaks up rainfall and slows it down before it reaches the soil.

    ---

    Is hard fescue a slow growing fescue?