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jean_vallee

The order of rehabing a fescue lawn

Jean Vallee
11 years ago

I have lurked and asked questions and developed a plan of attack for rehabing my lawn this fall.

This may seem elementary but I want to do it right for once.

I need to do the following:

kill off existing grass

deep dethatch

remove thatch

dethatch/rake up again if needed

Would you cut grass extremely short then apply grass killer or the other way around?

After I level the yard. what order should these be in (or does it matter)?

lime

seed

fertilize

topdress

The last 2 steps will be to roll and apply biodegradable germination blanket (sloped yard and protection from dogs)

Any advice from the experts on this forum will be greatly appreciated!

Comments (19)

  • tiemco
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Where do you live? What is your expected seeding date?

  • Jean Vallee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am in eastern VA. I plan to begin Labor Day weekend and be ready for seeding by mid-month. Have to wait until 3 trees removed on Sep 17 to complete.
    I'm doing this by myself so I can only do so much in a day.

  • busboy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am planning my grass kill early so I can go back and hit any missed spots. I am not an expert but I think it would be better cut normal height and apply grass killer. Cutting it close may shock it and leave less plant area for absorbtion. It needs to be active so the herbicide will get down to the roots.

    I would also appreciate advice.

  • Jean Vallee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That makes sense to me about not cutting grass short b4 applying grass killer.

    Now if someone would please advise on the rest?

  • tiemco
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well I seem to do a write up every year regarding this, so here goes. When you kill everything and start fresh it's called a renovation. To do it correctly, one usually starts with a soil test in the spring to give you enough time to add amendments to bring your deficient macro and micro nutrients up to a good level. You said you are adding lime. Is this due to a low pH, or is it just something you generally do? Are you using calcitic or dolomitic? Anyway, lime should be added either way before or way after seeding, say a month at the least. It will take a while for lime to dissolve, and if you apply it at seeding you can get interactions with starter fertilizer and the very top layer of soil can have a much higher pH than you want. So if you are going to lime, either do it now, or wait till a month or two after you seed. For Round-Up to work its best, the grass and weeds need to be actively growing. Watering a few times a week prior to applying Round-up and after applying will make it more effective. Once you notice the grass starting to die, usually in 4-7 days, you will want to mow it as low as you can before it lays down. Once it's down, it's a lot harder to mow. Many people allow a period of fallowing at this point, applying water to get any dormant grass to reanimate, and any rogue weed seeds to germinate. If you aren't going to fallow, that's fine, it's optional. So now you have a brown lawn, and the soil should be fairly moist from the waterings. The next step that I like to do is power rake, especially if you have thatch, or the soil is obscurred by dead grass. TTTF seeds are pretty big, and they can have trouble getting to the soil if thatch is an issue or you have a lot of dead grass matted down. You can skip this step if you want, it's optional, but I like to do it. It also loosens up the top inch or so of soil. After a power raking, either rake up all the loose dead stuff, or use your mower with the bag to remove it. Now you are ready to seed. I like to do all the prep work the day before, and the seeding the next day early. A light watering the night before seeding is also a good idea. So now you're ready to seed. Use a broadcast or drop spreader, whatever you feel more comfortable with. Apply the correct amount of seed, more is not better. If it says 8-10 lbs per 1000 square feet, shoot for 9. Make multiple passes in different directions to make sure you have even coverage. If you do this, be sure you lower the setting on the seeder so you don't put down too much on the first pass. Once all the seed is down you have a few options. One is do nothing. Some people like to roll the seed with a water filled roller. Some people like to top dress the seed. Some people like to do both. If I could only do one, I would topdress. Another thing some people do is apply Tenacity herbicide at the time of seeding. If you have a lot of weeds, or anticipate a lot of weeds it can really help reduce them at seeding. Now that the seed is down, and you rolled the seed and or topdressed, an application of starter fertilizer is a good idea. I like to use a half app at this time, the other half after the first mowing. You can use a full app if you want, but with all the watering you do I feel that you lose a lot of that full app due to leaching. Now it's time to water. Watering is probably the single biggest factor in success. The seeds need to be moist continually until they have all germinated. This generally means three light waterings per day. If you have a sprinkler system, then you are golden. If not, you need to set up hoses with timers. You can do this when you water prior to rounding up. Make sure the whole lawn gets adequate coverage. You are watering to keep the seed moist, so no puddling. Generally this means 5-15 minute watering cycles depending on your water pressure and coverage. Three times a day is generally enough. Then all you have to do is worry about your seeds, and the weather, and everything else that can go wrong. Once all the seed is up, and you see the green fuzz, you can start to cut back on the waterings to twice a day for about a week, then once a day for a week, then every other day, etc. Your first mowing should take place about a month after seeding, or when the new grass is 3 inches tall. Mow it down to 2. I'm sure I forgot some things, so please ask questions, and this isn't the only way to go, but it has worked for me very well.

  • grass1950
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great write up tiemco. I was hoping you'd do it, I sure didn't want to. The only clarification I would make is that most folks here do not have the organic matter and soil tilth that you have made to your soil and a power rake is not going to loosen the top 1' of their soil. I only point this out as I foresee a thread where someone states: "tiemco said power raking would loosen the top 1' of my soil and it barely affected the top 1/4" of my soil and..."

  • tiemco
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I guess it all depends on how low you have the power rake set. To dethatch you just want to skim the soil to pull up the thatch, but if you lower the rake to the lowest setting you can get more soil penetration. Multiple passes in different directions will give better results.

  • grass1950
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, have it your way, but I'm gonna go tell andy your not only disturbing the soil, your advising to beat it senseless. :)

  • grass1950
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a feeling you are talking about a machine with fixed blades vs flail, If so, no sense arguing definitions.

  • Jean Vallee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tiemco, thank you or your excellent information. I will start grass killing today to be sure I get as much as possible then scalp in 10 days. Won't have time to leave fallow. I will wait on the lime and apply the starter fert 1/2 at seeding and 1/2 a few weeks later.

    I do set my dethatcher at the lowest setting and end up with almost 2 inches loose soil with multiple passes. This year I will spend more time leveling before I seed. I absolutely hate to rake by hand (pet peeve) but have made up my mind that is what it will take to get this job done right.

    Again, Thank you for taking time to answer my questions (even though you probably done it many times before!).

  • Jean Vallee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Forgot to add.. watering is not an issue as I finally have sprinklers in the right spots and on timers. Just wish I could fine a timer that allows me to specify the times of day and not just a starting time and interval.

  • tiemco
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Home Depot carries a good timer made by Orbit. It allows you to set the time of day and duration for up to 4 zones. It is 50 dollars but you will need to buy two extra controllers as it only comes with 2. Once it's set you don't need to do anything but turn it off on rainy days.

  • Lawn_Hobby
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found this thread helpful; it was a great review for me. Thanks.

  • Jean Vallee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have several of these.. You set a beginning time, say 7AM, then tell it how often from that time and how long. If I want to water 3x a day, it will turn on again at 3PM and 11PM (8 hrs apart).
    My ideal timer would let me tell it i.e., 7AM 1PM and 6PM. No late night watering.

  • tiemco
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Orbit ones I bought last year allow you to specify the time of day. It comes in a set with the timer, a manifold, and 2 controllers. The timer has a big round dial on the front.

  • ibanez540r
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jvallee - I have one of those as well for my drip irrigation. I attempted to use it on an overseed a year or two ago and realized it would not work because even set at every 4 hours, it would then continue through the night if not turned off, and then turned back on in morning. So, I got one of these and it's great..

    http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-62001-Garden-Digital-Watering/dp/B0006ZI6H8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345570045&sr=8-2&keywords=hose+timer

    It can be set for certain times, not intervals. However, it is only a single hose bib control. If you need multiple sprinklers you will have to get something like tiemco is suggesting.

  • ibanez540r
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think this is the one at home depot that tiemco is referring to..

    http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-58872N-Complete-Yard-Watering/dp/B003LY4I28/ref=sr_1_5?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1345570424&sr=1-5&keywords=orbit+timer

    Problem is I'm pretty sure it is an "interval" timer, rather then specified times per day.

    Tiemco, can you confirm?

  • tiemco
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yup that's it. You can program it to water at any time, up to 4 times a day, for any duration.

  • Jean Vallee
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If I didn't already have 4 of the 2 station versions I would think about replacing them. I have 8 sprinklers to get the entire yard covered properly.