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pbl_ge

Just ripped up pavers--steps to make it grass & flagstones?

pbl_ge
10 years ago

Hi Folks,

We just pulled up brick pavers from our backyard. They popped right up, so I don't think there was any mortar involved.
{{gwi:44121}}

Underneath it was a bit gravelly and sandy. Here's a close up, for what it's worth:
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I'm sure they dirt is also very compacted--those pavers were there for close to a decade.

So we want it to look like this eventually:
{{gwi:44123}}

We're wondering if we need to rototill, or just hoe. We have some high quality dirt to spread thinly, but we're hoping that we don't need a ton of it. What do you think?

What steps would you recommend?

Thanks!

Comments (8)

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    Pavers are 3 inches tall. Was the soil lowered in there by 3 inches to compensate for the paver height?

    Too bad you didn't start this project in May. That would have given you time to mulch the area for a few months and restore the soil.

    You should not rototill. That will fluff the soil unevenly so that 3 years from now, when it has all settled, it will be uneven (bumpy). I would not even hoe it. I would spray it with any clear shampoo at a rate of 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet followed by 1 inch of irrigation. Water it a full inch again in a week. A week after that repeat the shampoo and water. Then scatter seed, stomp the seed into the surface of the soil, and start the seed sprouting watering regimen. That means to water lightly 3x per day (breakfast, lunch, and dinner). Lightly means just enough to keep the surface of the soil moist - not saturated. That might be only 5-15 minutes each time. Continue that watering for 3 weeks for fescue and 4 weeks for Kentucky bluegrass seed. When you think you have 80% germination, then back off on the frequency and increase the duration. Eventually you should be watering a full inch of water all at one time. When the temps are in the 70s you should stretch the frequency to every 3-4 weeks. When they climb into the 80s, then water every other week. In the 90s, go to weekly watering. Always 1 inch at a time.

    When the new grass is 5 inches high (or an inch higher than your mower will mow), mow it back to 4 a couple times. The tall grass will help develop deeper roots.

    Once the grass is in and mowed a few times, if it seems sturdy enough I would scatter a very light coat of compost. Very light means about 1/2 to 3/4 yard per 1,000 square feet. This is hardly any, but you'll have tender grass. Use less if you want to, because you don't want to smother it before it gets started. Any grass that is laying over under the compost will die so sweep it off the grass and down into the turf with a push broom.

    You need to get going on this project fast. Winter's a coming.

  • grass1950
    10 years ago

    Your pictures indicate a high likelyhood that the pavers where installed correctly. That means it looks like they put in a 3-4" base of what is probably finely crushed limestone and compacted it. If so, that is not going to be conducive to growing anything.

  • pbl_ge
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Weird. I posted a question to Dchall before, but it's not here--??

    Thanks for the detailed response! Can you tell me what the purpose of shampooing the soil is? We've had three torrential thunderstorms since we ripped up the pavers, so it's getting well washed!

    Your pictures indicate a high likelyhood that the pavers where installed correctly. That means it looks like they put in a 3-4" base of what is probably finely crushed limestone and compacted it. If so, that is not going to be conducive to growing anything.

    Thanks for this. It appears to be a sandy mix of soil and gravel. A fair number of weeds are growing in it, but your point is still taken. Do you recommend the same course of action as Dchall, or something else?

    At this point we're considering spreading out some high quality soil mix (about a cubic yard) we have leftover from other projects, then planting seeds to see if they grow. We figure if it fails we can take more drastic action.

    Thoughts?

  • grass1950
    10 years ago

    If I'm in error and that is just your native soil beneath the pavers, then I have nothing to add to David's advice.
    The shampoo isn't being suggested because dchall thinks you have dirty dirt. Lol. It's being advised for its surficant properties.

  • pbl_ge
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Does surficant = surfactant? And doesn't surfactant = detergent? Sorry, I don't mean to be a slow child. I don't understand what a surfactant would do to the soil that would be useful.

    ??

  • grass1950
    10 years ago

    Yes, sorry, my spelling is poor, and no spellcheck here. Seeing as dchall developed it, he would best be able to explain the theory.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    I did not develop the shampoo treatment. In fact I developed another technique to soften soil that has been successful for many people who tried it. However, the surfactant works much faster and, I dare say, better. Surfactants have been available for a long time to soften soils. One or more of the gurus on another forum tried them and found they worked. The formula was reverse engineered and the ingredients sourced on eBay. The new formula was tried and found successful by everyone who tried it. I was not up for buying a lifetime supply of soap for my garage, so I tried it with baby shampoo. It worked just as well for me as it did for the others. Here's the theory.

    The soap is a surfactant that allows water to penetrate deeper into the soil where the temperatures are much cooler than at the surface. Down there the moisture levels will remain more constant once damp due to less evaporation. When the soil is continually moist like that, then you have the perfect conditions for increasing the population and size of the beneficial fungi that live in the soil. That process only takes a few days to get going really well. Then if you repeat the shampoo it reinforces the fungal growth and, as they say in Great Britain, Bob's your uncle. You should not have hard soil again for months or years. I tried it in 2011 and my soil still gets soft when it is irrigated. If you try shampoo, you can use any shampoo that you can see through. Cloudy shampoos have conditioners in them that interfere with the process. And don't use dish soap because it is antibacterial these days. Back when Jerry Baker was selling his ideas, there was no antibacterial dish soap.

  • pbl_ge
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks so much for that information! Very interesting. Will discuss with my OH and see if he's game to try.