Lawn renovation questions & rust help

14 years ago

Hello all,

I'm located in northern Ohio (west of Cleveland), a couple of miles away from Lake Erie, avg. 1st fall frost is late October due to the close proximity of the warm lake.

3 years ago, I "renovated" our lawn...it's in quotes because I did it partially wrong. The front yard is a blend of KBG from a local nursery, 4 cultivars. The side and backyard is "Emerald Park Sun & Shade" which consists of 30% Shining Star PRG, 25% KBG, 20% Boreal CRF, 20% Pennlawn Red Fescue, & 5% Poa Trivialis.

The front lawn looked lovely the first year...not so much the 2nd and 3rd years. My mistake was renting a sod cutter and removing all of the sod without killing it off. I believe that left behind some roots of some odd, "fluffy" looking, short-growing grass which has spread to nearly half of the front lawn now, choking out my KBG. The plan is to Roundup the whole lawn tomorrow, rent a core aerator this Sunday and aerate like mad, spray Roundup again in a week or so, lime, and reseed.

The side and back yards, only since renovating, have bad "rust" this time of year, currently pretty bad. I put a dose of some anti-fungal chemical down prior to some recent rain, but we ended up not getting but maybe a 1/4", probably not enough to work in the chemical. I plan on doing the same to the side and back yards as the front...kill, aerate, kill, lime, reseed. I limed the front yard when it was renovated. Been here 10 years and never limed the back or side. Could that be why I have the rust problem?It shows up in the front yard only after seeing it in the back, probably via the lawnmower. Is the current rust problem going to affect the whole process?

I don't want to have to do this every couple of years. So I'd like to do everything right this time.

I'm looking to go the TTTF route, possibly with a little KBG mixed in, maybe a little Scott's Heat Tolerant Blue, like 90/10. Is that ok, or should I just stick with TTTF? Also, after reading many, many forums, pages, etc. about TTTF, it seems that Lesco's Transition Blend and Rebel IV are pretty high rated brands. Any suggestions?

If I go crazy with the aerator, should I still rent a slit-seeder like I had planned to? Or would a spreader be sufficient?

I assume I have enough time left in the season to do this.

Any important info I left out, please advise. Sorry for the length, but wanted to explain as best as possible.

Thanks folks.

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Comments (4)

bpgreen
14 years ago
TTTF doesn't spread, so if you go with strictly TTTF, you'll need to overseed periodically to avoid bare spots.

Heat tolerant blue is not really a Kentucky bluegrass. It's a hybrid of Kentucky and Texas bluegrass. It was developed for hot parts of the country and shouldn't be needed in the Cleveland area.

I don't know why you're planning to move away from KBG. If I were you, I'd use all KBG, unless you have areas of heavy shade. In heavily shaded areas, I'd use a fine fescue mix (maybe transition from KBG to fine fescue).
beehive21
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks bpgreen.

Regarding the heat-tolerant blue, I am assuming since it was developed for hot areas, but is still a cool-season grass, it won't require the ridiculous amount of water and care during our June - mid-September period, when we easily top 90 degrees and the current KBG gets stressed...and still be able to survive the cold, long winters we have here. I don't have the luxury of regular watering in the summer.

I realize TTTF doesn't spread, hence the inclusion of 10-15% KBG with it...overseeding with TTTF as needed.

My bottom line is I need to rid my back & side yards of the rust-laden ryegrass. I already need to kill the front KBG due to the invasive whatever-grass that is taking over. And the maintenance of the KBG during the summer here is a bit much, the main reason I'd like to go to a TTTF.

No really shady areas to speak of, even the shady spots see at least 4 hours of sun, with probably 80% of the yard seeing sun from dawn to dusk.
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bpgreen
14 years ago
Actually, as I understand it, the main benefit of HTB isn't drought tolerance, but heat tolerance. It may also have drought tolerance, but I think it's really designed more for hot climates.

Heat tolerance and drought tolerance are not the same thing by a long shot. As an extreme example, I planted some sheep fescue because it only needs 5 inches of precipitation annually (that's not a typo). As soon as it got hot, the sheep fescue went dormant, even though the KBG was still green. Once it cools off, the sheep fescue will spring back in areas that have not had enough water for the KBG to live.

K31 tall fescue is very durable and will stay green for really long times with no water. But it's not very attractive as a lawn grass, and it grows faster than KBG and improved tall fescue varieties. It's really more of a pasture grass than a lawn grass.

Turf type tall fescues (TTTF) need about 3/4 inch of water per week to stay green IF the soil conditions are right for the TTTF to develop deep roots. If TTTF can't develop deep roots, it can require more water than KBG to stay green.

Another thing to consider is the difference between drought resistance and drought tolerance. TTTF is more drought resistant than KBG because it can stay green longer without water before it goes dormant. But KBG is more drought tolerant than TTTF because it can go dormant and stay dormant for a really long time, but the TTTF will die if it is dormant too long.
beehive21
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you.

Drought resistance is more important than drought tolerance here...I'm only 31, so I don't have too many years of memories...we've only had 1 "drought" that I can remember, the summer of '88. '99 or '00 was dry too, but not really drought conditions.

In continued reading, I keep leaning towards TTTF over KBG.

I think I figured out the "fluffy", short-growing grass that I had in the front yard as creeping bentgrass...it was ugly.

The only thing still inhibiting me from buying some improved TTTF is not being able to see the grasses first hand. I've eradicated many clumps of very thick-bladed tall fescue...so I'm kinda afraid to seed my lawn with it, even though they've been improved to a finer blade. The clumps I've had look like this...
http://www.msuturfweeds.net/images/galleries/t_fescue/1.jpg
I know it's not gonna be as fine-looking as KBG, but I assume it is far better looking than the fescue in the above link. Looking at TTTF pictures online just isn't the same as being able to see it in person.

I love the look that my KBG had...I just don't think I'll be able to maintain it throughout the whole yard to keep it pristine...but if TTTF doesn't compare somewhat to KBG in texture and color, I may just bite the bullet and do what I can to maintain it. I still really want nothing to do with PRG...6 or 7 years of no lawn rust until I seeded the back and side with the mixture in the 1st post.

Still undecided...and slowly running out of time, especially if I go with KBG. Entire lawn is dead and heavily aerated. The local OSU extension says Aug. 15 - Sept. 15 is the best time to seed in northern Ohio.