qq - Thanks for the update and for your experiment. I'm one of the ones that has been awaiting your results.

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems that if grass can make it through tough times like this summer, it would get stronger and stronger from year to year as the roots mature. Sort of the what doesn't kill it can only make it stronger philosophy.

I think I'm going to overseed this Sept. the Rebel Extend blend that I posted about recently. It contains 10% midnight. I have a strip of what I think is KBG (I think it has the boat shaped tip but again - no expert) between my front walk and house and it does great, although it is a little more sheltered than other areas.

You say the KBG is still green. Have you been watering at all?

I haven't watered it in about 3 weeks but we've had t-storms roll through about once a week and it really doesn't look like it needs any water even though it's been really hot 91-95 degrees. He recommended using the rebel blends like exceda and so on and so forth for cool season in this area. Since I have dogs I really need something that germinates fairly quickly because the risk of a muddy mess and disturbed seedlings is huge.

Good write-up, qq. Your information was not unexpected, but I still say KBG can make it. I have friends that have entire yards of it, but they do have to baby it some in the summer, and one friend wants to mow it higher than 4" to keep from the burnout. Still, year after year it looks good, but it's well established also.

I think if you can get past the first couple of years when the KBG is at it's most tender state and susceptible to all sorts of things and can establish a solid root system, the chances of it's survival should go up. Of course, having partial shade areas for the heat of the day helps.

I believe KBG will do just fine where you are also. The part I question is when KBG is in it's 2nd or 3rd year it could decline even in cooler weather. That doesn't make sense. It should only be stronger by the 2nd or 3rd year due to it's establishment.

Well that would make sense but if it's not adapted to this climate then it could be severely weakened to the point that it doesn't recover or that it gets a disease. according to who I spoke to at both my local ext and the turfgrass scientist.
My main reason for calling them was because someone I talked to the day before said to find people who are already growing it and ask them what the maintenance is like. He said he saw it planted at a nearby resort/winery except I went there and it was all putting green bermuda as far as the eye could see.

Hate to say it but my stand as of today and yesterday is officially starting to look kinda ratty. It's still green but after that last mowing, it has not grown much and the bermuda is now on top of most of it. I think reality has set in.

Reality may have set in . . . but is the reality that KBG can't do well in GA or is it that it can't outcompete bermuda in GA? I'm curious how KBG would be doing in your lawn if you had previously had, say, fescue or some other grass that doesn't spread so aggressively. Your KBG may be doing better without the competition.

Quirkyquercus,

I think the heat is just making the KBG sleepy, so to speak. With this heat, it wants to go dormant, unless given ample amount of water.

In your zone, you really ought to be able to grow KBG. According to the actual usda climate zone map, you would be in zone 7A.

Check out this link to see for yourself:

http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hzm-se1.html

I'm right on the border of being 7A myself (five miles from Maryland).

My Midnight II, Moonlight and Bedazzled blend are doing very, very well.

I'd suggest waiting until the fall to see how it bounces back.

As far as the Bermuda overtaking it. That doesn't seem that surprising given the heat we've all had lately. (My own lanw has required more watering this past few weeks to keep it from dormancy.)

Maybe you ought to try phase two of your experiment. Install some sort of barrier to keep the bermuda out of the KBG test plot. Then you'll be able to get an idea of how well KBG stands up to the environment there, without worrying about invasion from Bermuda.

If you end up doing the whole yard with KBG, you'll want to eliminate the Bermuda, in any event.

Here are some articles about Thermal Blue that I came across. As it would appear there's quite a few people who have tried it from both seed and sod. Not sure where they're getting the sod from since I haven't even seen fescue sod for sale around here but anyway enjoy...

Thermal Blue sod installation
Thermal blue homeowner comments
These homeowners are supposedly in GA. Mixed reviews.
About the thermal blue variety testing in Alabama

I'm secretly rooting for your KBG, but obviously I have never been optimistic about the chances. It just gets too hot and stays too hot for too long in most of the Southeast.

I was just up in Michigan for the weekend and it was 95+, but it was nice in the morning (and of course, it isn't going to last long.) When I got home, it was about the same temp, but it just felt WAY HOTTER here. I don't know if it was the humidity or what but there was really no comparison. Just because you are in the same (or similar) zone as someone else doesn't mean your weather is comperable. Zones only measure how cold it gets in the winter, not how hot it gets in the summer.

This is true but you're forgetting something...
I suffer from reverse-zone-denial which means I live in zone 7 but I pretend I am zone 3. Not just with grass I do this with everything. Trees and perrenials too. I have a doctors note granting me permission to push my luck with cool climate flora in the balmy, miserable, sweltering, stinking southeast. Is it really that bad to have a nice lawn only in Oct-Apr then a halfway decent bermuda lawn in july and august? That's probably what's going to happen.

Hey, funny you say that. I'm in Cary, NC (zone 7) and I too, plant a lot of the trees and grasses that grow 500 miles north of here! I not only like the grasses and trees better, but also enjoy the challenge of making something work that is not suppose to.

I'm currently looking to plant a Colorado Blue spruce, and a Norway spruce. I do not plant southern trees (i.e. crape myrtles) mostly evergreens with the conifer look.

Anyway, did I mention my front lawn is compose of 100% Kentucky Bluegrass?

I think we're two of a kind. I don't have any crepe myrtles either! Or Southern magnolias or any of the popular coastal plain trees. My way northern trees include paper birch, yellow birch, cherry birch, and balsam fir. My just plain out of range trees are quaking aspen, big leaf maple and douglas fir.

There are some huge norway spruces around here and on occasion you can find some big blue spruces. Even in a more suitable climate a lot of the stuff isn't really well adapted to cultivation so long term I'm not sure how well it will work. But you never know unless you try, right?

My most exciting thing growing is the creeping bentgrass. If I can keep that alive even until spring, I'll be extatic.

auteck, How long have you had the KBG lawn and how is it doing? Do you have irrigation? I'm near Charlotte and might overseed with 100% KBG next year. I seeded with about 10% KBG this Fall.

tarheel23,

I've had my KBG lawn for almost 2 years. This is its second summer, and I'm happy to report that is doing very well despite the unsually hot weather and lack or rainfall.

I do not have an irrigation, I use the portable sprinkles whenever mother nature does not provide rain.

I'd definettely overseed your lawn with 100% bluegrass if I were you. It makes a very dark green and fine bladed turf, and the best of all is that it SPREADS.

Here's a picture:

{{gwi:114987}}

quirkyquercus,

We sure are. I grow up in South Florida, and I got tired of the heat and the palm trees.

When I moved up here, I fell in love with the landscape and the change of seasons.

I can't believe Firs grow down there. I've always wanted to grow a Douglass Fir, but I was always told they don't do well here.

Here are the trees that I'm currently growing:

Eastern White Pine (my favorite pice) They grow like weeds on the western part of the state, but much less here in Central NC.

Canadian Hemlocks: This is my favorite evergreen. If you are not familiar with this tree, I recommend you do some research - it's wonderful.

Dwarf Spruce Alberta: They make an excellent x-mas tree. I have 2 by the front door, my wife always decorate them with x-mas lights.

Cedar Deodar: This one is lke a southern/northen tree. It grows in zone 6 to 9. Fantastic weeping habit, blueish green color.

Green Giants: I have 10 of them around the perimeter of the house as living walls - screening.

Layland Cypress: Great for screening as well. Very picturesque when young, cylindrical when mature.

Of the mature trees, I have 1 30f tall River Birch. It does really well in our climate, and it has a fantastic peeling bark.

I use Sea Green Junipers as foundation shrubs along with some English Boxwoods.

I do have Japanese Maple, I couldn't resist the purple color of the leaves and overall shape of the tree.

Anyway, It's nice to know that I'm not the only growing northen flora in the upper south.

Quirky, I didn't read any of the responses but have to say I'm surprised you didn't already know some of what you mentioned here. I and others preached it when you first began the experiment and since my return to the board this spring. In following some of your updates, I have wanted to ask you something but refrained because I didn't want you to take it the wrong way. So, here is my question and please don't take offense: Why experiment with cool season grass and treat it like warm season grass? If you want to learn whether Midnight will survive in your climate, care for it as though it's not in your climate because that's the way it inherently wants to be treated. Midnight/Midnight II exhibit the upper ratings for heat/drought tolerance, but those ratings are not equivalent to those exhibited by bermuda et al. It is not bermuda. It is not a warm season turfgrass. It only means they are comparisons to other kbg. If I have to water it, then surely you know you do, too. It needs water so give it some, please. By giving it water, your results can easily be vastly different from the Georgia testing since normally those types of test are performed under extreme conditions. Much like you presently, they are likely not watering or only enough to prevent stress. Yours will more likely sustain.

Another reason I hesitated to ask is because I really wasn't sure of your objective, if maybe you wanted to see if it could be treated like warm season and if it would perform and sruvive like warm season grass. In which case, I have no doubt you will soon find your answer. LOL

Bestlawn, no offense taken. I'm kind of playing it by ear. While at first I was out to prove that KBG can survive here, My big thing is that I believe in reasonable amounts of maintenance and not wasting money and not wasting time and not driving an hour away to get some professional product during business hours.
There is a correlation between the performance of the grass and how much time/money I will spend on it. The minute performance goes down, the minute I leave it alone and go do something else. I don't have it in me to force the entire yard to stay green in full sun and heat in a drought when we get maybe one or two showers a month. Some people can. The golf course manage to do it. But I don't. I'm trying to simulate reasonable amounts of care to see if the grass will grow with average care.
I basically follow the UGA lawn calendar for tall fescue on all the cool season grass that I have except the bentgrass which I mow much shorter. And the only reason I put so much effort into the bentgrass is because it performs. It's reasonable IMO.

Auteck, please send me an email. Click on my page.
I also grew up in So.Fl. and we seem to have the same tastes in flora. I can tell you about what I'm growing. It's apparent we are both allergic to tropical plants and swamp grasses. I can't stand palm trees and bananas. Some people here try to plant them.
Douglas fir is a more out-westy tree. If you want to prove you're not in Miami anymore, get some balam firs, red spruce and fraser firs going. The latter two are native to the mts of western NC. I saw some this past saturday when I drove up there. I have a couple of balsam firs in my yard. also have 3 white pines. White pines are native to my area but not all that common this far to the south.
You might also try out some of the cool climate birches, Betula lenta (sweet birch) and B. papyrifera (paper birch)

Don't forget quaking aspen and lilac and blue spruce.

These are just a handful of things people insist do not grow here. I say they're wrong. It's called reverse zone denial.

LOL...

The Blue Spruce is coming, and so is the Fraiser Fir as well as a Norway Spruce. I just need to find a few spots in my yard for them.

You know, one of my best friends just moved up there, Alpharetta to be exact. We both grew up in Miami, and now we're closer. I'm planning to go down there sometime in the summer, not sure when, but maybe we can get together them and talk some turf.

My email is: xlemos@msn.com

I'm happy to report that my Perennial Ryegrass is still doing fine despite 2 back-to-back days of 96f - I can't believe it.

I'm starting to believe that the consensus is that Perennial Ryegrass does not grow this far south, but that is just what it is - a consensus.

You should try to grow PR down in GA and see what happens...?

I sent you an email.
I used to live in Alpharetta. I live in Buford now which is about 20 minutes away from there. I've been out of FL for quite a while. Seems like many floridians have evacuated from there permanently and now live in GA and NC.

I'm sure Norway spruce will do fine there. It's reportedly more adaptable and faster growing than blue spruce. There are several mature norway spruces in my area. Another tree you might like that I stumbled upon a couple months ago was Vanderwolf pine (Pinus Flexilis 'Vanderwolf's pyramid') It's a slower growing and smaller than white pine with a deeper blue color needles than white pine.

96 ...Ouch. It hasn't been that hot here thank god. I can live with the drought but not that kind of heat.

Cool, thanks.

It's very unusual to have those temperatures up here - even in the hottest part of the of the summer.

I guess it's changing, and my 7b zone might be changing as well - maybe were are zone 8 now and it hasn't been updated.

Oh well.

I'll talk to you later.

PS. That Vanderwolf pine looks lovely! I might have to look for one now...

Hi Quirky,

How is the KBG experiment working out? Did she make it through Summer of 07?

I'm in Birmingham, and figured I'd give cool season grass a shot too.

Fall of 06, overseeded with Rebel Exeda Fescue (poor choice) with the expectation that it would wilt and die by August, and then I'd just buck up and get a few pallets of Zoysia. The Fescue thinned and wilted and barely grew from June - August, but to my surprise, it bounced back in September.

Fall of 07, overseeded with Scott's Heat Tolerant Blue (HTB), and I am eager to see its summer time performance. So far, I am very impressed with the KBG's ability to heal and fill in bare spots.