Just curious, but do the wheels on the irrigation system cause ruts that have to be cut around when cutting sod? I know I've seen specialized "rut removers" for irrigated crop fields, I can only imagine what it would do to sod

What's growing on the other 370 acres?
What do you use to mow it?
Once harvested, do you replant it or just let it come up from the roots? And I thought farmers weren't supposed to be lazy. Is this too many questions?

anonemouse asked:
Just curious, but do the wheels on the irrigation system cause ruts that have to be cut around when cutting sod?

Nope, the wheels do create some small ruts but no real problem for cutting operations. Once cut the problem is fixed. Really no difference than mowing which is done more frequently like twice a week.

QQ asked:
What's growing on the other 370 acres?
Huh? I have another 100 acres with Zoysia and Saint Augustine. The rest of my land grows cash crops and beef.

What do you use to mow it?
Ganged reels behind a tractor.

Once harvested, do you replant it or just let it come up from the roots?
Now you have asked a good question, one in which I do not think you appreciate or realize when you comment on "Bermuda being a CHEAP contractor grade sod." It is simple: It just comes back on its own with no involvement from me whatsoever. I can get two cuttings per year.

I once upon a time sold Fescue but went broke trying because of warranty issues and the extremely high cost of growing Fescue. To grow Fescue or any of the cool season grasses you have to plant from seed every year. Once cut, it is done and has to be replanted from seed.

Now with that said I do have to re-sprig Saint Augustime once it has been cut, hence the higher cost. Zoysia also grows back, but you only get one cutting per year.

So now maybe you understand why some Bermuda varieties are relatively inexpensive, itÂs because of the low input requirements. But not all, I grow another 20 acres or so of Tif-Dwarf for a couple of area golf courses, and it goes for around $700 per pallet as opposed to $65 for Tifway-II.

And I thought farmers weren't supposed to be lazy. Is this too many questions?
YEP

TW,

This is very interesting...thanks for sharing!

If you just cut the sod and then let new turf grow back, you must add more soil at some point, or you would be lowering the level of your fields by 4" or more a year. How do you add more soil to that many acres?

tak2w, good question. However it is no where near 4-inches per year, more like an inch or less. If you have ever noticed most sod farms are in river valley flood plains and/or low lying areas. Mother Nature gives it back via errosion for elsewhere. In my case I live along the Red River and when MN gets gready, I just go to the river and load up, very rare though. This year we had heavy rains and river flooding which brought me way too much soil, enough for another decaded.

Very interesting, you learn something new everyday. I have dealt more in hay production but this has a very positive upside.

Sorry if you took offense to my previous comments about bermudagrass. However true they may be, it is you that is laughing all the way to the bank. After 12 applications of roundup in the same goshdamn yard, I'm starting to wonder why my cheap ass builder didn't plant sod in one yard then cut it out and plant it the next yard over and just keep doing that instead of buying it from central or south ga and having to pay all that transportation expense.

It actually sounds like a very lucrative business. Much more than fescue. What a colossal pain that must have been to keep alive in a setting like that.

One more question, how does it work with royalties. If you want to tell me what it costs relative to the sod, that would be very informative but I'm just curious to know if it's all honor system or what. It's not like you're buying plugs and letting it fill in every time it's harvested.

Also, how old is your grass? How deep rooted is it?

"this has a very positive upside."

This actually positively has a downside. Unless you're selling it.

I lived in Wharton, TX for six months a year or so ago. For those of you not in the Texas grass business, Wharton is sod farming country about 60 miles SW from Houston. I was there from November through May and there wasn't one day that I did not see fully loaded sod trucks tearing up and down the road.

Down in Wharton when they cut, they cut in strips leaving a strip between the cut strips. Then the grass grows back into the cut strip from both sides. Is that what you do? I also asked if they replenished their soil and they all said they never have. I would have thought they would be below sea level by then, but they all seemed to be at the level of the road.

You will be interested in this. I planted ShadowTurf plugs on 6-8 inch centers in mid May. Last weekend I was home to see it and it has 90% covered the area I put it in. Of course it helps to get 40 inches of rain in 100 days but still, I did not expect a variety of Zoysia to fill nearly that fast. We have a brick path through the ST so we don't walk on it, but my dog doesn't always follow the path. There is one spot where the ST is fully covered but is growing very close to the ground. The rest was all up about 3 inches while the one dog step spot was more like putting green height. Now I have the winter browning to look forward to. Also the ST is up against common bermuda, so the battle is on. I'm expecting the ST to dominate, but we'll see.

QQ Asked:
One more question, how does it work with royalties?

I am not at liberty to tell you other than it is based on a per square acre basis. We have to keep books like any business.

Also, how old is your grass? How deep rooted is it?

That is three questions. How old is not a simple question because I started 20 years ago when my Father gave me the land. He raised cash crops prior to my take over. I started with U3 Bermuda, Fescue, and Saint Augustine. Did away with Fescue and used that land for Zoysia. Did away with U3 and converted to Tifway-I (aka 419), then did away with Tifway-1 to be replaced with Tifway-II. So the oldest is the Saint Augustine of about 20 years.

The SA is shallow rooted compared to the Bermuda. Not sure how deep the roots are on the Bermuda as I have never found the bottom. They are as deep as I have every dug into the ground when I buried a cattle rustler and used him for grass fertilizer. :>)

Dave Asked:
Down in Wharton when they cut, they cut in strips leaving a strip between the cut strips. Then the grass grows back into the cut strip from both sides. Is that what you do?

For SA and Zoysia yes, then rip up springs from what remains to replant what was cut to speed up the process.
For Bermuda it is not necessary. I have done it both ways, but there is no real economic advantage of cutting strips, in fact it cost more in labor. Either way it takes just as long before you can cut again.

As I stated before top soil in not an issue, especially for Zoysia or Bermuda. They both make their own top soil by catching and grabbing it out of the air or any drop of water carrying silt. Ever seen Bermuda grow out into the street or on a sidewalk and allowed to stay there a while? When you do remove it there is an abundance of dirt in its place it grabbed from thin air and erosion. Couple that with occasional river flooding and the valleys it grows in and Mother Nature naturally provides all the soil I need via surrounding erosion.

How shallow are the SA roots? I've dug 'Sapphire' SA runner out one time and the root was 16 inches long and it was in the ground for several months. I didn't think they even grow roots that long. I never could find specific info regarding on SA roots.

TW,

Since we all know how hard/impossible it is to kill Bermuda, how did you switch your field from U3 to Tif1, and then to Tif2? Do you ever have any of the old varieties rear their ugly heads?

Solarization on non-certified fields, industrial soil sterilizer on certified fields.

Sounds like Quirky needs some of that sterilizer stuff to finally get rid of his bermuda. :)

Nah, QQ just needs to be sterlized period... It's a JOKE QQ!

I tried solarization with bahia once. It only grew stronger. It gave it everything it had and pushed the plastic and metal stakes right out of the ground. It was a total failure.

TW, what do you use to solarize that many acres?!? That's a lot of plastic! Must be a huge job. How long do you have to leave the plastic down?

I'm finding this to be a very interesting discussion thread. I'm gonna give you a break texas-weed...I don't have any questions for you, but it sounds like you've got a pretty good "cash" crop going with that bermuda sod.

Looks to me to be a very interesting business, especially with all the different type of customers you probably have.

It's actually putting a lot of ideas into my head. For example you can plant bermuda along the side of the road on some quiet country roads. You can water and fertilize it from a truck passing by and you can harvest it when you need and just let it grow back over and over again. No need to mow it since the county will do that for you. T-Dub makes it seem very easy but does not talk about what is involved with selling it and how much competition there must be. I think that is where it is not as easy as it seems.

Tak2 asked:
TW, what do you use to solarize that many acres?

Opaque 10 mil plastic. It comes in 12-feet wide rolls. You rig it on the back of a tractor or truck and drive followed by grading shovel to cover the edges and non documented workers.

How long do you have to leave the plastic down?

Depends on weather conditions but 60-days during the hottest part of the year here in TX

Jim said:
sounds like you've got a pretty good "cash" crop going with that bermuda sod.

Not as good as my may think, before taxes profit margins are small, less than 10%. If it were a traded stock, you wouldnÂt be in it. However it is a lot less volatile than say a grain crop, so in that respect it is better.

DonÂt go away thinking this is an easy business, it is not, and no farming is easy. Growing and selling sod is very labor intensive with very high input cost. It takes a lot of fuel, fertilizer; water, machinery, and electricity not too mention labor and bank loans like any farming.

If you were to look at gross sales you may think WOW, but when all is said and done after bills, there is not much left. Frankly I make more money from investing in the stock market. IF money was the main goal, I would just sell off the land and equipment to some developer and my kids, grandchildren, and I could live happily ever after on a beach somewhere.

Do you fertilize the St.Augustine in the Fall? If so, with what.

If the beach isn't covered in bermuda by the time you get there you could grow seashore paspalum there and irrigate it with water from the ocean.

Seriously though, if you haven't already you might consult an accountant to help figure out where you can reduce overhead. Sometimes we may be excellent at what we do but still require help from others.

QQ, thanks my daughter-in-law is a CPA and pretty much runs the dollars around here, but if I really wanted to make a killing farming, the easiest way is to take it from you and all the US Tax Payers in the form of a Gov subsidy and not grow anything except fat.

Yep, that's a good point t-w. I kinda like your attitude. It shows you like what you do and/or it must be in your blood. I know farming isn't an easy way of life...never has been, but I for one appreciate what y'all do.

With all that sod going to golf courses and such, surely you can get a discounted round every now an then? : )