If I want to core areate certain areas of my lawn, should I fertilize first and wait "X" weeks to areate, or vice versa?

Thanks and this is a great forum!!!!!

Clarification - will be applying a fall fertilizer.

Typically you would core aerate, and then fertilize right after to allow the fert. to penetrate the plug holes.

Why do you want to aerate? I just saw a post where the guy only aerated because his neighbors did it. I believe core aeration is the second biggest waste of time and money you can spend on your lawn. But if you are going to do it, do it extremely heavily (at least 8 different directions) and follow up with tons of water. I'm talking 2 inches of water all at one time. Try to fill the holes.

I know you are anti-aerate but the soil in certain areas of my lots is extremely compacted. I guess I could go the soap (?) route but aerating seems to be the most accepted method.

Unless your soil has been saturated with water and had animals pugging it for days on end, or other similar circumstances where all the air has been driven out of it, then you do not have compacted soil. What you have is hard soil. Hard soil is caused by a low population of beneficial fungi that normally keep the soil soft. You cannot repopulate the fungi with an aerator. You can with shampoo. Shampoo works by allowing water to soak in much deeper into the soil. That deeper water will hold the moisture more constant for a longer period of time. That is the ideal environment for the beneficial fungi to multiply.

Aerating is an accepted method for grounds keepers and lawn care guys because they have boat payments to make all winter long. The problem is they do the aeration and leave. What needs to happen is the soil needs to be slow-soaked with water. You can get a kick start on that by watering about 2 inches and then letting it be. They don't tell you that though. And punching holes in the soil doesn't do anything to help the soil accept the moisture. It can still be hydrophobic. Interestingly, the hydrophobicity is caused by other microbes.

dchall,
Breaking my silence.

I'd never challenge you on matters organic, and I know your position on aeration, but I do object when people expouse unsubstantiated assertions to support their position, I feel compelled to keep the discussion honest. Where does this 2" of watering come from? What microbes cause hydrophobicity and how?
Personal experience tells me that aeration appears to improve water penitration and when combined with topdressing can have dramatic effect. For instance, aeration followed by topdressing with peat moss appears to improve water retention and likely some small increase in OM (and CEC?) and aeration followed by a sand topdressing improves drainage--all admitaly anecdotal.
Although I've used shampoo with some improvement in problematic areas, that too may be anecdotal. I've also seen areas where shampoo appears to have had a detrimental affect (as a surficant, allowing water to too quickly pass through the soil?) which is also anecdotal. I'm open to theories that shampoo may help in soil that is high in magnesium, but soil that has hydrophobic creating microbes? What studies support shampooing? How does it affect these "bad" microbes or enhance "good" microbes? How deep does it affect the soil and in what period of time? How much does shampooing increase soil water retention?
I don't profess to know the true religion, but it seems no university turf program even mentions shampooing while nearly all support aeration.

I shouldn't have aerated....pretty much smoked the hydro tranny on my 16 yr old tractor.

FWIW - you know how the internet is - do you trust all you hear? = no! When 20 people say aerate and 1 says to use soap, what would you do? I just want the lawn in the home I just bought to have less/no crabgrass and be fuller. BUT I can't afford all the things I should be doing. 1.6 acres is a lot of lawn IMO.

Nice to hear from you grass1950. You must have missed out on the great Gardenweb shampoo and hyrdophobicity debate of 2012 earlier this year. One reason I don't substantiate everything I say is I've learned that most people would rather get a quick answer than read one of my 3,000 word essays. It took a few years of my verbosity here to figure that out.

Here is a link to 905,000 articles on hydrophobicity and turf. I'm sure some of those near the end are about mayonnaise and steam shovels, but you know how search engines don't always find the best info. The research has been done by the golf industry. They hate organics for the reason that there is some unnamed microbe(s) that prevent water from penetrating the soil. That leads them to do crazy things like top dressing with sand every year or so.

The 2 inches of water following aeration is my way of saying, 'water the cr@p out of it in order to get deeeeeeep penetration of moisture.' As long as you are going to the trouble of aerating, at least take advantage of having those holes there. This is partially based on the holistic approach to ranching where those producers do not kill off the dung beetles with monthly doses of deworming medicine. When the beetles dig their deep holes, the next time there is a gullywasher, that water floods into the holes instead of washing away the surface soil. I've seen storms drop 20 inches of rain in a week and not one particle of soil has run off the property. And right next door the same storm caused $35,000 worth of erosion to roads where there were no dung beetles. I've written many 3,000 word essays on that topic, too.

I realize I am on the fringe of lawn society. Based on how things have turned out over the past 10 years, I seem to be on the vanguard of the most of the successful lawn care practices. Why? Because I am willing to try new things, especially the ones that don't seem stupid. I have tried many things that I do not recommend. There is one guru who will sell you molasses by the gallon and urge you to spray every week. I've tried molasses at every dilution there is, and it flat does nothing! There is one exception to that, but I don't want to lose the train of thought. But I generally don't talk about molasses. There are probably a dozen products I've tried that either do nothing or are counter productive. Don't talk about those either unless someone brings them up. As for the things I do recommend, I might not be the original discoverer, but I am usually one of the early adopters and promoters. If you want to read success stories from people who use surfactants (like shampoo) instead of aerating, I can help with that. Copy and paste, "Soil Conditioner and Kelp Help Plus Humates" into Google and read about it. Then look in the forums there for dozens of posts and hundreds of replies. Those folks have designed their own soil surfactant recipe using materials sourced from ebay. I don't see the need to fill my garage with a lifetime supply of soap ingredients, so I opt for shampoo. They begrudgingly acknowledge that shampoo will probably work fine although it costs a few cents more per 1,000 square feet than theirs does.

The first person I know of the promote the use of soap on the lawn was America's Master Gardener, Jerry Baker. He's very convincing, but he did not really back up what his concoctions were doing. If you could go back in time on these pages, he was laughed off as a kook. As time goes on, we are getting back to the ingredients his concoctions. Back then dish soap was safe to use on the lawn, but now it has antibiotics in it. Shampoo is the easy alternative.

1111....look, don't be coerced into saying something you don't believe in...just for the sake of agreement with somebody who writes a lot in this journal, if you believe your ground is compacted....and there's certainly evidence to be guided by...then aeration is one way to rectify the problem.
Driving a tractor over ground --as a regular routine--is definitely one way ground can be made compacted.

Besides, some people advise that aeration can be done---should be done--every year.
It does no harm...it can help.
There are certainly different methods employed to affect aeration and if wishes to go the whole route of removing plugs then where's the harm.

So why the bluster of telling someone a lawn doesn't need aeration....how has this person gained knowledge that such task doesn't need to be done---what crystal ball is that person peering into.

David--thanks. I'm sure we'll discuss this many times in the future.

1111GD111,

I'm sorry that this has been a very expensive deal for you. Let's concentrate on your desire for less CG and a fuller lawn. Let's skip the spoil test for now. Dou you know what type grass you have? What city do you live by? Do a jar test to get a profile of your soil. Take a mason or mayonaise jar and fill it 2/3 full of your soil that you take from a layer that is at a depth from 3 to 6" own. Clean all of the stones and roots out of the soil before placing into the jar. After the soil is in the jar, fill the jar full of tap water and put the lid on . Shake the jar until all of the soil is suspended and place the jar on a flat surface. After 2 minutes, mark a line on the jar with a marker at the level of the soil that has settled out. After 2 hours mark another line at the level of the soil that has again settled out. After 24 hours mark the level of the settled soil. Everything below the first line is sand and gravel. Between the first and second line is silt and everything above the second line is clay. This will help determine the soil' propensity to compaction. Also stick a screwdriver into areas of your yard and see how far down it will go.. Be forwarned that even at minimal turf care, 1.6 acres is not going to be cheap. But if you want some suggestions please get back with the answers and results and there are people here who can advise.

1950 - dont feel sorry for me. I know what I got myself into. When I say I cant take care of it like I want to that means 4 treatments of Scotts fertilizer per year plus a treatment of GrubEx. Based on my income vs. expenditures TODAY, it'll be 2 or 3 + the grub control.

Here's some answers to your questions:

1. I live in the Rice Lake, WI area zone 4a
2. Lawn is 1.6 acres in size and based on where I THINK the original owner got the seed, the lawn is 50% KBG, ~35% fescue and the balanace is ryegrass.
3. Lawn is pretty well established and thick in ~65% of the 1.6 acres. The other 35% is thin and needs help.
4. Some areas of the lawn are overrun with crabgrass.
5. I have a grub problem, but my guess is to let the winter freeze kill them off then practice prevention next year.
6. Don't think the original owner spent tooo much time taking care of the lawn...i.e. "it's green".
7. Put down one application of fall fertilizer just after Labor Day. Might put down one more in November.

As you saw in another forum my lawn tractor's hydro tranny is just about shot. So money is even tighter now.

I will perform your soil testt his coming weekend. I'm expecting to find several different concoctions based on my observations.

Thanks for your support and concern!

Just wanted to jump in on #5.

They will not die off in the winter. The eggs planted in fall grow into grubs which burrow very deep for winter and stay there 'till spring when they come back up, and come summer emerge as beetles. Then the process starts all over again.

Just concentrate on the thin spots then for the test for now. KBG is great for spreading and filling. A thick lawn is the best defense against weeds and will reduce your weed prevention costs. In Wi., it's a bit late for seeding this fall. You are correct in concentrationg on fall feeding and skipping the other feedings. You'll find it cheaper to find a local vendor (like a sod farm, or independent seed/lawn store, or even Lesco for your supplies rather than using Scotts and their combined products. A pre-emergent each Spring until the turf gets thick will control the CG and many other weeds. Spot spraying with WBG Max during the Summer is more work but more cost effective than weed and feed. You may also want to look into a soil test this year (Logan Labs in OH. is a good lab$20. for the test and you have a month to ask for an analysis that is another $30 if no one here or on other sites will do it.) to prepare for any needed amending (if necessary) to the soil. Will look for your future posts.
BTW, what are you going to do about the tractor tranny?

540 - thanks for the info....I think! LOL!!!

1950 - if you know what I mean....when you're looking at a house...you look at the house more than the yard. I knew the yard was going to take some work and $$ but I admit to wanting it all and wanting it now! LOL!! There's just so much that needs to be done (retaining walls, etc) and only so much $$ to allocate to the project. With the issues I face in different areas of the lawn needing different things, all I can hope for is getting the best advice to tackle the issues.

As tp soil tests, I think I will need more than one as the soil composition in the yard seems to be different...not uniform might be the better term. I still plan on performing your test and posting the results here.

Before I forget - should I tine de-thatch areas with the heaviest CG in the hopes of pulling it out? Or just leave it?

Our local Menards store carries a fertilizer made by a regional fertilizer company. I've heard good things so I'm using it.

I did use quite a bit of WBG CG killer this summer and it helped for sure.

As to the tractor, I'm searching for a used hydro tranny right now. No luck yet...... :( The kids have a lot of lawn to push mow!!!! They better get at it! LOL!!!

The CG will die off after the first frost, so attacking it now is kind of a waste of time and money better spent on a pre-emergent . All in all nuturing the existing KBG and encouraging it to spread while you use financial resources elsewhere and then overseeding next fall would be my plan. Good luck with the tranny, (BTW knowing the make and model# of the tranny will make your search easier as some tranies are used by different tractor manufacturers--broaden the pool so to speak)

I thought maybe by using my tine de-thatcher I'd tear up some/most of the dead CG and get a head start on spring.

I'll work the lawn over next year and overseed where needed.

I've located a used tranny for my model 1692414 Broadmoor. Might just have the kids push mow for the rest of the season and regroup next spring.