I wish we had a best practices method for overseeding bermuda with rye. We don't because overseeding with rye is considered to be a worst practice all by itself. The problem comes in the spring when the bermuda never comes back to life because it is being shaded out by the tall ryegrass. When the rye finally dies out in May, the bermuda has missed the spring green up. All the nutrients in the soil went to the rye and the weak bermuda has to try and catch up. I've seen bermuda that never recovered in a whole season.

As for your plan, let's walk through it.

1. Stop watering 2 weeks prior. I would stop watering about a month to be sure the bermuda is really stressed.

2. Scalp on the day you overseed. Yes, that is right.

3. Dethatch. I would not do that. I don't see the need and it's just going to stress the bermuda that much more. What that will do is slice through all the stolons on top of the ground. If you did that in the spring or summer, it would be to encourage new growth. Going into winter like that is just more stress.

4. Spread seed and cover with topsoil. I am starting the anti topsoil movement to stop all the willy-nilly use of topsoil on lawns. I've seen lawns smothered by soil and even by compost. What's worse is I've seen drainage changed by topsoil. In fact I can guarantee that if you add topsoil it WILL change your drainage. I have a friend in Mesa, AZ who was planning to fix his drainage because it was backing up onto his patio. He's sort of a lawn guy, but his first thought was to bring in more topsoil to reroute his drainage. He started doing it himself with me pleading for him to NOT bring in more topsoil. He ended up calling in a professional drainage company. They hauled several cubic yards of his soil away to fix his drainage. He was going to bring more in. I don't know what it is that people instinctively seem to think they need more topsoil. You don't. But at least I feel better after the rant. If you go ahead with this project, and you feel the need to cover the seed with something (you don't need to), please use compost or something organic so that it will eventually "evaporate" and not change your drainage.

5. Rake seed/topsoil so the seed makes good contact. That is exactly the right idea but the wrong process. Use a roller to press the seed/COMPOST together so they make good contact with each other. If the area is small then you can simply walk over every square inch of the new seed. Your weight is exactly the right amount of pressure you need on the seed to press it down. The roller is just more efficient at getting it pressed down.

Regarding fertilizing: yes, wait until you have mowed the new rye for the second time. That ensures that you have roots available to take up the fertilizer. You'd be wasting the fertilizer to do it sooner than that. As for which fertilizer to use, I've been organic for 12 years, so I can't pick chemical numbers for you. I'd use alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow) or corn meal from the feed store.

Thanks so much for the response! I actually did not realize that overseeding bermuda with rye was a worst practice - I have been educated :) For us here in the valley of the sun, though, it's about the only way to get a green lawn year round.

Regarding the top soil, a few years back I tried overseeding without it. The rye grew, but it took close to a month before I had even moderate growth and coverage. Each year since then I have used at least some top soil and have seen much quicker growth. It could have been something else that made the rye that first year grow so slowly, but I've been hesitant NOT to use it ever since. Doesn't it help keep birds from eating the seed, and maintain moisture in the rye seed?

You mentioned using a roller to press the seed/compost together. If I end up not using any top soil/compost, should my goal then be to compress the seed into the ground?

Thanks again for your help!

Couple of other questions...

1. When I scalp the lawn in prep for overseeding, should I leave the clippings there? Seems like they would provide some natural coverage from birds and retain moisture so I am guessing yes, but would appreciate suggestions.

2. Should I fertilize sometime before overseeding? Based on the response above it sounds like unless I've really stressed my bermuda, it may rob the soil of nutrients the rye will need to germinate and begin growing. So, if I fertilize now (~ 3 weeks before overseeding) will that add nutrients the rye will need to thrive?

Anyone?

It's a southern grass question so has to wait for a Bermuda grass person to meander through. That can take a bit. I do northern lawns and know zip about Bermuda.

I over seeded my lawn last fall with good results. I used perennial Rye grass. Annual/perennial are both really easy to grow. Annual has a light Green color vs perennial which is a nice deep green grass. Any who, what I did to my bermuda lawn was mow on the lowest setting and BAGGED the clippings. i then aerated heavily and picked up as many of the cores as I could. I then mulched mowed the rest of them to try to break them up. I spread my seed and just started watering without rolling them in ( 3 times a day). I would have rolled them in but I didn't have a roller. the idea is to get good seed and soil contact. I used starter fertilizer. I'm no expert but you can fertilize when u seed. I believe that As the Rye grows, it shades out the bermuda and forces it into dormancy quicker.

I over seeded my lawn last fall with good results. I used perennial Rye grass. Annual/perennial are both really easy to grow. Annual has a light Green color vs perennial which is a nice deep green grass. Any who, what I did to my bermuda lawn was mow on the lowest setting and BAGGED the clippings. i then aerated heavily and picked up as many of the cores as I could. I then mulched mowed the rest of them to try to break them up. I spread my seed and just started watering without rolling them in ( 3 times a day). I would have rolled them in but I didn't have a roller. the idea is to get good seed and soil contact. I used starter fertilizer. I'm no expert but you can fertilize when u seed. I believe that As the Rye grows, it shades out the bermuda and forces it into dormancy quicker.

Thanks for the response! Very helpful to hear what others have done that has worked.

Overseed your bermuda? I agree with David; you are asking for trouble. If you must, use green dye instead for $40 . . .

Thank you, dfw - interesting that this is considered such bad practice. It is very commonplace here in Phoenix. This is what everyone does come winter.

I agree that it is very popular in desert communities. Why? So the lawn care companies can make their boat payments all year long. In the north the lawn companies just switch over to snow blowing.

Certainly it can be done. It does not help that the golf courses and football fields do it. Those multimillion dollar sports businesses make it easy for Scott's and others to advertise their products at the wrong time of year. The big sports complexes have the training and chemicals needed to kill the rye in the early spring so the bermuda can come back naturally.

In San Antonio it is possible to have a green bermuda or St Augustine lawn all winter long by continuing with weekly watering and fertilizer. Last winter was unusually cold and I don't remember any lawns remaining green all winter, but most winters it's not that hard. You should be able to do it in Pho.

If you are outside of downtown PHX Bermuda will go dormat between Thanksgiving and Christmas. A few nights below 30 will do that. PHX is probable one of the few places in the States that can overseed a Bermuda lawn and not harm it toooo bad. The heat returns early enough. For me I only do the front yard as I am reqired to do so. I start mowing higher 3-4 weeks out and them mow down on lowest setting. Toss seed, water 8-10 times a day for 1 min and mow 2-3 weeks later. Birds don't care about mulch or anything on top they just dig right though it. Spread a few extra pounds of seed so the birds have something to eat. Now if you get a late start like NOV then you might want to use manure as it will keep the seed warm. In late March i spray lawn with 'Revoler' to kill off the rye.

Neil, thanks a bunch for your reply! Why is it that you mow high the few weeks before scalping? Does that distress the Bermuda more?

Also, in the spring after killing the rye, do you do anything in particular to encourage the Bermuda to come back?

I am in east Mesa.

neilaz is a good resource for this.

When you mow bermuda high it thins out. That would allow the sunlight in to the rye seed when you plant. That's my take. Let's see what neilaz has to say...