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joejkd

Overseeding without top dressing

joejkd
10 years ago

Was wondering what the best process would be. So many ways and conflicting opinions I'm not sure what to do. I have a 2500 sq ft area to do. I will not be top dressing because of cost and time considerations. I will have it mowed down to about 1.5 inches. I will then dethatch [mostly because there is some Moss growing in the area].� I have a core aerator [tow behind] that I will use next.

The question becomes what next? Can I just spread seed then use a lawn roller? Or should I use a drag mat instead? I have neither one so I would have to buy one. Is it worth the investment? Or am I just totally wasting my time here without top dressing?

Comments (16)

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    the reason I am a aerating is to overseed. That is why I need to roll the lawn after. The roller is to maximize seed to soil contact, especially in the absence of any top dressing.

    In other words the aeration is being done to create a better seed bed not to maximize the dethatching effect. The soil isn't really suffering from compaction issues.

  • jmcphail
    10 years ago

    Personally I would roll and top-dress, at least the thin or bare areas, with compost.

    FWIW I think the pressure of an average roller is less than the pressure of your body's weight concentrated on each footprint as you walk on the lawn. I think compaction due to rolling is a non-issue unless you fill it with cement or something.

    I hate top-dressing, it is time-consuming and can be laborious. But not top-dressing leads to uneven distribution and washout - it protects the seeds from floating and moving around if there is puddling. Also the lower germination rate of areas without top-dressing has been quite noticeable to me. The same with rolling - during germination I saw the patterns of the roller in the higher density of seedlings.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    Drag mat is for surfacing the lawn. Roller is to improve seed-to-soil contact. The roller can be filled with water. It should be filled to the point where your feet do not leave prints in the rolled soil. The soil should be dry before rolling. If it is saturated, then you do risk compacting the soil. If the soil is dry, it is impossible to compact the soil.

    I think top dressing is a waste of time, but if you are going to do it, use compost and not topsoil. Topsoil is permanent and permanently changes the drainage of the yard. Compost will decompose leaving no volume after a year.

  • GreenThis
    10 years ago

    Well you did say you were going to dethatch. I am pointing out the effects of core aeration to include dethatching, air and nutrients to the root system. You also said you had time constraints. I really dont think rolling is necessary. If you topdress and aerate there really isnt a need to roll the seeds onto the lawn. When your overseeding you really want the seeds to fall into the tiny holes you make so they will develop a deeper root system.

    Working on your lawn is fun but I feel like your making more work for your self that you really dont need to do.

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Dc, I know you're an organic guy, so I find it interesting you believe top dressing to be a waste of time. Do you find no increase in germination when to dressing? Is there ever a situation where it is appropriate? Alot of guys are really for it, but obviously I'd love to skip it if it isn't gong to help. I found compost available for about 40 $/yd delivered, and I would need 2 yards for this area.

    I'm definitely going to roll it in now, as renting a roller will only cost me $20/day.

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Green, your post snuck in when I was typing mine

    The dethatching is primarily to remove moss from the area not really for thatch per se

    I already own the dethatcher (it's a tow behind) so it's no biggie to do a 2500 sq ft. area

    I've done just aerating and over seeding last year with no rolling or top dressing and was not satisfied with the results.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    Topdressing with soil is appropriate if you need to raise a low spot where water collects. It is also appropriate to reroute drainage flow away from buildings if you know what you're doing.

    Topdressing with compost is appropriate if you need to mulch the soil for several months. In fact it is amazing. You don't have to do anything but compost it. That assumes you don't care about whatever the compost goes down over top of, because you can easily smother the entire lawn with 1/2-inch of compost.

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I see. I guess what I meant when I said top dress was to use compost. I don't wish to change grade at all and would not be using to soil.

  • CPTK
    10 years ago

    Just my two cents, but in my admittedly short lawn keeping career I've seen a big difference in germination rates between not using a top dressing and using various topdressings. At least where I am and the type of soil I have, I find it almost impossible to keep bare soil damp enough, even with light watering up to 6 or 8 times a day. Yeah, really. It will be 84 degrees here tomorrow on 9 OCT, and my soil, when bare, forms a dry, dusty crust very very quickly. I've tried topsoil, peat moss, straw, and shredded paper. Topsoil is okay. Straw works, but it's just a bit of a pain to work with, and at least here it takes too long to break down. Shredded paper is not good. It works great for holding in moisture, but it forms a mat that can block the seedlings from growing. The use of peat moss is widely condemned as evil by environmentalists, but the stuff works fantastically as a top dressing. Germination rates and speed were vastly superior in areas I've top dressed with it.

    This post was edited by CPTK on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 17:54

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Searching the net most people claim much higher germination rates top dressing VS . not top dressing but I wonder how many of them roll the seed. I guess my question has evolved into "Does top dressing provide superior germination VS. just dethatching/aerating and then rolling the seed?"

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    So everyone knows I went with the following procedure:
    1. Dethatched
    2. Mowed and bagged thatch and grass down to 1.5 in .
    3. Core Aerated in 4 passes
    4. Dropped seed in broadcast spreader
    5. Rolled with a half full lawn roller
    6. Applied starter fertilizer

    I have irrigation 3x a day

    I have a 4500 Sq. ft, area to do next I think I want to either add slice seeding to the above process in between #5 and #6 or top dress between #3 and #4

    Top dressing would cost much More than renting a slice seeder . Which method is superior or are they about the same? The area I must seed is quite uneven and I heard that's not so good for over seed machines.

    This post was edited by joejkd on Sat, Oct 12, 13 at 3:17

  • dchall_san_antonio
    10 years ago

    If it was easy to run the machine over, I would slice seed before top dressing. Can you level the area before seeding into it?

  • joejkd
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    No, not really id have to demo the existing turf to do that. Can I skip to dressing if I slice the seed in?

  • goren
    10 years ago

    Unless you are in a southern grass zone its too late....mid October...to over seed.
    Seed has to germinate in the soil....not in the air...so the temperature outside is not important at this late date.
    The soil temperature is what the grass seed has to germinate in and by now....most soils in zones 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7.....are fast losing their ability to hold seed long enough to germinate and gain strength before a hard frost does them in.
    Better to wait until the spring.
    This goes for your perennials as well....don't fertilize them....allow them to go dormant naturally.

    The value of aeration is a non-argument....soils benefit from such action.
    Overlaying of a good topsoil/triple mix/compost is a thing that any turf benefits from at any time but doing it in the fall....and in the spring...accompanying over seeding...is one of the best things you can do for your lawn.
    One other thing....there does seem to be disagreement in circles about the mowing of a lawn at a reduced height.
    Me....I think the higher the grass is, the better the shade is to prevent crabgrass and other weed seeds from germinating.
    Besides, grass blades hold the moisture that soil can use to get through winter. Lower heights encourage snow mold and other diseases of turf....in my opinion.
    Yet, many people swear by mowing the grass down practically the level of almost scalping.

  • wvudave_charlotte_nc
    8 years ago

    @joejkd How did it turn out? I dethatched my lawn very thoroughly by hand with a thatch rake. Many bare/thin spots, exposed soil. Going to rent a roller. Hoping that will suffice.