Looks like copper sulfate.

Might think about calling the cops.

Sounds like someone was trying to destroy your tree.

Regardless it they are trying or not they are dumping a hazardous chemicals in you yard. That is illegal.

It also could be a drying agent, with a moisture sensitive blue dye.

It almost certainly is Copper Sulfate. It's not toxic or hazardous - as a matter of fact I have people put small amounts on the lawn as a micronutrient. It is used also as a weed/algae control item in ponds, etc.

The problem is the amount. A couple of tablespoons per 1000 sq ft is good. Half a gallon over the area you're talking about is bad news for tree roots.

Does look like Copper(II) Sulfate...but I'm no chemist. Might want to send a sample for analysis to your local soil testing lab.

I agree. Years ago at another home, I had problems with root growth in the sewer line. That looks exactly like what I used to buy to kill the roots by flushing down the toilet. Active ingredient (probably only ingredient) was copper sulfate.

I almost don't want to suggest this, but is there any possibility the copper sulfate placed by the fenced-in tree was an inside job? My cousin's wife had his daughter chop down a tree in the backyard while he was asleep! LOL :-) I guess they didn't like the tree. Kinda funny.

You did say the tree is fenced in.

Are you considering documenting the incident with the police? Before you do so, obviously consult your wife. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that though.

Most likely a tree hugger. Empress trees are "weed" trees. Considered invasive and baned in at least one state.

Sure looks like Copper Sulfate. If it is it is harmless and will do more good than harm. Real easy to test to see if it is copper sulfate.

If you have a propane torch or gas grill outside when it gets dark find an ole spoon you do not care about, put one of the crystals in it and hold it over the flame. If it is copper sulfate it will burn GREEN. It can also be done inside over a gas flame on your cook top, just make sure you have good ventilation and do not breath the fumes.

"If it is it is harmless and will do more good than harm."

A half gallon in a small(I'm picturing less than a 10 sq foot) area?

A half gallon in a small(I'm picturing less than a 10 sq foot) area?

If it is Copper Sulfate and I am 90% sure it is, It is benign and used in organic gardening to control fungal diseases, in aquariums to treat fish parasites, an din lake and ponds as an algaecide. Heck it is even included in children's chemistry sets.

I would just rake up as much as it as possible and not worry about it. Gardeners use it all the time to spray tomato plants and used extensively in commercial farming on mellons and various of cash crops.

Drinking water is good for you. Drinking excessive amounts in a short period can kill you.

Most everything available on copper sulfate and tree root damage states that it's effects are localized and that it affects are not carried from the roots it contacts up into the tree.

So I think its a wash. It's not good, but it wont kill the tree.

Thanks to all for your help. The half gallon of granules was put in an 8 inch circle around the tree right up to its trunk. In places it was 2 inches thick. Looks like copper sulfate is a good bet, except that the granules have miniscule threads of white in them and I don't know what the white powder-like substance is at the bottom of the jar when dissolved in water. Any ideas? Doesn't foam up like I'm told Drano would. It is not an inside job. Just the two of us here and the wife was quite upset about this since she has babied the tree. We are both seniors and she has cancer, so a fast growing shade tree is important, especially after a hot summer and drought. Yes, I suppose this qualifies us as tree huggers, but know that the Empress Tree is not regarded as a weed tree here in NE Iowa. We are at the extent of its northern range in a warmer micro-climate along the Mississippi River and protected by the bluffs. I know of many people in other parts of Iowa who wished they could grow them. They are not classified as an invasive tree here. A few grow up wild only on the edges of woods and don't get as big as they do further south. They can't compete with our hardwood forests. Even the Dept. of Agriculture promotes them for our area. Yes, a neighbor may be the culprit. I can only speculate as to why. The police need more evidence, so we have put up deer-cameras in the yard. I will try the flame test. Otherwise, a soil lab might be a good idea, but Dept. of Agriculture and Extension labs say they don't have the facilities to test from scratch, but maybe they would, now that we think it might be copper sulfate. I'll re-contact a vet toxicologist I know with the new information. I also posted this question on the Organic Gardening forum--more comments from others there. The tree is so far on good shape, but frost has come and we probably won't know till next year. I've read that Empress Trees will tolerate a lot of chemicals. I'll post any new information. Thanks again to all.

Iowariver,

My comment was not about you, nor was it my personal opinion of the Empress tree, and I am sorry you took it that way. It was meant as a suggestion as to who might have done this act and a possible motive.

Copper sulfate for use as a fertilizer or as a fungicide is formulated differently than the stuff sold in buckets or tubs to kill tree roots and/or algea. Used in the manner described by Iowariver, it can certainly be termed a poison.

The white substance might simply be impurities? Copper sulfate, as a mined compound, would naturally have inclusions of other stuff. It might even be something added in manufacturing to prevent the crystals from sticking together. If you type Copper Sulfate into google images you'll see what I mean.

I'd be worried that your tree killer may be back with something more difficult to detect, such as a liquid herbicide. I'm glad that you've taken some steps to prevent it from happening again.

To grass1950:

Understood. I really do appreciate the ideas. Thanks.

Very sorry to hear about your wife's cancer. What kind is it? My father had prostate cancer a few years ago, and is doing fine today thankfully.

Hopefully those deer cameras will nab the perp. That's just awful what they did. Was the gate unlocked and the perp just walked in, or is there a lock on the gate so the perp actually hopped the fence?

To: ZoysiaSod,

Thank you for your concern, but we are shy to talk about it and we wish to remain "on-topic."

The fence was closed, but just hitched with clips. Anyone could climb over it. We are half way into putting up 8 ft. hardwood board fences. I do think electronic-photo use is the only answer. Wish it was otherwise. Thanks.

To: Texas-weed, and others.

We have tried the flame test,in several ways,and there is no sense of green on flame or smoke, The spoon leaves a bit of the bright blue on it, plus a black carbon-like substance on it. The smoke might be slightly blue-gray, but not sure. The smell of the smoke is a semi-strong sense of burnt rubber and an indescribable sharp smell, almost acid remotely like vinegar. Thanks.

Crush some of the granules into a powder and sprinkle a little over the flame.

The flame needs to actually touch the copper sulfate.

Heating it up on a spoon like crack(for lack of a better description) won't produce the decribed result. LOL!

Iowariver, if you decide on a camera, please let us know what it is. I've got some rabbits--actually, hares I think--that occasionally leave a half-square-foot patch of my backyard Bluegrass lawn bare.

I've been considering the x10.com camera but haven't done much research on cameras yet.

Interesting that everyone has jumped to the conclusion that it's copper sulfate. What about this?

{{gwi:120165}}

This is the refill packet for the Miracle Gro hose end sprayer system.

For one its a different color.

Two, the Miracle Gro product is much finer.

Some of the pictured crystals are a 1/4" long.

Three, the Miracle Gro product would dissolve MUCH faster than 40 minutes. Especially if agitated.

You're talking about a granular hose end product. It dissolves pretty damn fast with very little agitation.

I'm a bit surprised that people are still in discussion about what this substance is. A very simple search on google images will result in pictures that are the exact replica of what Iowariver has shown us, even if you aren't familiar with it.

It is readily available product, and can be purchased in any hardware store in a 5 gallon bucket.....which sounds like what he observed when he discovered this. It is often referred to as "root killer".

Iowa, if you were able to remove most of this stuff, I think your tree will be fine. I wish you and your wife all the best.

I did eventually touch the blow torch directly to the granules on the spoon when nothing happened doing it underneath. There was definitely no green flame or smoke. There was a little smoke that was the same color blue as the granules. Otherwise they just seemed to form a gooey carbon material. Then sprinkled a good amount several times over on a hot twig fire in my fire pot. Same thing happened. The smell I described earlier was the same. I agree, not Miracle Grow, but I am told by Extension experts even Miracle Grow put around the small tree like it was, would probably kill it. The rubber smell makes me wounder if its not petroleum based. I am told by the experts that there are many pesticide/herbicide products that look like it, even rat killer. Blue dye is commonly used. I will be running an assay test, putting it on oat and radish sprouts in a pot to see if its an herbicide, for broad leaf plants or grasses. Will take some time. This is the advice of the toxicologist. One could have a lab run it through a GC mass spectrometer, but starting from scratch would cost several thousand dollars. For what its worth, we held the jar very carefully near the noses of several animals, careful not to let them touch it or smell it for long. Cats were repelled by it. Dogs were attracted. Sheep were attracted. All are fussy eaters. Not exactly good science, but interesting. Will keep all informed. If nothing else, I'm running this discussion to help others in the future. Thanks to all for the well wishes.

I have more info that suggests it was Golden Malrin or commonly called Blue Malrin. A fly bait. Harmful to animals. Will post more soon.

Sound like the flame test has ruled out what everyone insists it is. Does sound like the blue version of Golden Malrin. One of the Amazon reviewers said his dogs were attracted to it and soon died. They also say that as a fly bait, the blue stuff does not work very well.

Good thing you kept looking into it!

Iowariver, you and your wife have the outrage of many people behind you. Since you've reported this to the police you could ask them if they will test it. If not, will they find out where you can have it tested.

Sending blessings to you and your Princess. Hope it flowers for you next spring.

OK help me out here. How would one use this as fish bait? I have fished for 50+ years and this is a new one on me.

TW, being a fisherman myself, my brain immediately went to "fly fishing", too. LOL!!!

Instead, think bug bait. It is for baiting flies. The insects. It's a poison.

Why doesMalrin come in two colors? I can understand different forms: granual, powder, liquid, but why different color if it's the same chemical composition?

To ZoysiaSod:

I have used several deer cams in the past, but now prefer the Bushnell Trail Sentry, the Night Vision version. Won't flash at night if you choose, but can use infrared to take picture without scaring away game or suspects. Takes still photos or 30 sec. videos when triggered. Senses something well at 50 ft. I use still so batteries last longer. Batteries don't seem to hold up as long as they claim. Usually it will take several hundred shot before replacement of 4 D Size batteries when they get down to about 1.45 volts each. You can get a solar adapter, however. Bought a factory reconditioned one on Ebay for 68.00. Am buying more. Also, a little hard to program, but gets easier with experience. Still can't figure out how to get the pink tone out of daylight shots when using infrared rather than a flash (does both.) But it is suitable for my purposes.

To all:

Golden Marlin is actually blue like in the photos.

We have the attention of the authorities and samples were sent to two different labs for analysis. All are very concerned about not just the tree or pets, but adults and kids.

Will keep all posted.

Thank you very much IowaRiver. I'll look into the Bushnell camera. It looks like a good one. I may just save my money for another year until the technology improves even more.

I had never heard of Golden Malrin before and just this week my boss mentioned he used to use it on a deer ranch to thin out the coyotes. He said it worked very quickly once they decided to use it. If this turns out to be Golden Malrin, it's a good thing you got to it before your dog did. Apparently it only takes a few grams to kill a dog.

That malrin sounds like potent stuff. Did it kill other wildlife too, or just the coyotes?

....Let me add that there's no need to ask your boss that. He probably wouldn't like the question, now that I think about it. It's probably safe to assume that he sacrificed lots and lots of other wildlife in the area just to kill off the coyotes. I'm a little surprised that kind of mass wildlife killing is legal.

To all:

After showing a sample of the granules to my pharmacist, who is also a farmer, and to three owners of the big local farm and home store, all thought it was Blue/Golden Malrin. All thought it was not copper sulfate. They've worked with both. So I bought a can of Malrin, but it really differs from the product put around the tree.

Granule size is similar, but Malrin is a chalky light blue with soft rounded edges, whereas the suspect granules are glossy, much brighter and deeper in color, and with sharp edges. More like glass. Malrin has a strong carrion smell(the fly attractant) and my stuff doesn't have hardly any smell when dry. As I probably said before, there is a slight sulfurous smell when dry, and when burned, a medium burned rubber smell with a high and sharp smell that is like an extremely acidic, refined vinegar. Not powerful.

The granules become a gooey like carbon substance when burned.

We are having the lab check for Malrin, Copper Sulphate (in case my flame test was inadequate,) and general fertilizer.

They do need specific ranges of chemicals to test. I'm thinking it might be a spreadable broadleaf lawn herbicide, commonly used around here, but the range of them is many.

So any new suggestions for testing would be appreciated.

Thanks again to all.

PS: Hopefully not Malrin, unless the product appearance has changed. Read the label. Really must be used with caution.

That would be hilarious if it was rock candy. But I guess that doesn't smell like sulfur.

The lab results are in and the granules are definitely Copper Sulfate!

Does anyone know if dogs, cats or other animals are attracted to its taste or smell? Has some sulfur in it, too.

I doubt very much that animals would be attracted to CuSO4. I am pretty surprised that all of those people looked at this stuff and couldn't recognize it.

See the first 4 to 5 responses rhizo.

It's not that it was unrecognizable, it's that there are other blue crystals that it could have been.

I think I can tell you where the sulfur comes from in copper SULFATE.

I am pretty surprised that all of those people looked at this stuff and couldn't recognize it.

Not true at all. It was correctly identified in Post 2, 4, 5, and 9.

Does anyone know if dogs, cats or other animals are attracted to its taste or smell?

Attracted to it no. Copper Sulfate is a listed ingredient in most pet foods. However in large doses is toxic, but no pets will be attracted to it.

I wasn't referring to the people in this forum! "Those people"....in his own community. Those are some of the folks he was able to show the granules to in person and they still didn't know what it was.