There is a link located on his page for future reference.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2004020829016580.html%22

claga,
I call my approach to organic lawn care, "no hassle lawn care." If you're doing it right, you won't be worrying about much of anything. You don't have to worry about whether you applied too much or too little. You won't have to worry about whether you watered it in too much. You won't have to worry about rain washing away the fertilizer. You won't have any chemical smells in your garage anymore. And you won't have to worry about using fertilizer in the heat of summer.

What are you doing now?
Where do you live?
What kind of grass do you have?
Do you have much shade?
Are you willing to water when the grass needs it?

Most importantly, are you willing to forget everything you thought you knew about growing grass? Because there are some pretty big philosophical differences between chemical fertilizing and organic. You know that term, NPK? Forget that.

>>You know that term, NPK? Forget that.

Mostly. Claga may notice that I always give NPK equivalencies for organics because it's a useful touchstone during the transfer. Drop the right amount of protein, get the right amount of N out, no worries.

It's also useful in that most lawns have a minimum nitrogen requirement and I always make sure mine gets it. I'm just supplying it organically instead of synthetically, and don't have to worry so much if I fall short or go long. It'll all work out in the end.

I have made earlier post describing the problems I am having with my lawn; red thread, dollar spot and a lack of color.

What are you doing now? I had a lawn service; recently I stopped the service following the last winterizing fertilization.

Where do you live? Central Massachusetts (zone 5B)

What kind of grass do you have? Tall fescue and KBG

Do you have much shade? House faces due north.
Partial shade both side yards. Front yard only gets mid to late afternoon sun. Backyard full sun.

Are you willing to water when the grass needs it? Yes, I have irrigation.

A little more information about my lawn:
It's in a 3-4 year old housing development.
The soil is said to be clay based.
Ph 6.8
Lawn was aerated 3 years ago.
Lawn service reported there is >1" of thatch, causing a lack of water and nutrient absorption.

I basically don't know how or when to start with an organic program and what soil preparation (aeration / de-thatching) is needed prior to starting.

Thank You

More lawn information
We had a late spring the first year we moved into our home the home in 2011.
The builder put in the lawn late because the soil on-site was very wet from heavy snowfall we had that winter, and heavy early spring rains. The loam was spread and hydroseeded in mid May.
I then hired an organic lawn service company, with hopes of trying to improve the soil conditions.
Lawn service technicians notes:
The first application 6/27/2011 organic fertilizer and grub control along with weed treatment.was applied.
The second application 7/28/2011 organic fertilizer was applied to promote greening, build soil, and retain water.
Early fall organic fertilizer applied.
Fall aerated and over-seeded
Late fall organic winterizer fertilizer applied.
I was not happy with the progress of the lawn and switched companies the following spring to a syntheic / organic program which I had for the last three years before ending the service, because of the red thread, dollar spot, and lack of color the lawn had again this year. (Please see previous post above).
In hind-sight maybe I should have given the organic program more time.

Claga

DC's FAQ are re-posted by SC77 on the "organic lawn care forum" on the gardenweb blog under the same "subject line" for those of you who might be interested.
If you are unable to spread the compost at the recommended 1 cubic yard per 1,000 square feet are there any other steps you can take?
Can you still use organic feritilizers with success?

I never bothered with compost. It's nice, but the required bacteria already exist, or will exist once the food for them is there (organic fertilizers are food, as is compost).

Spreading at 1 cu yd/K actually isn't required to inject bacteria. Just a very thin scattering of compost will achieve that, and the numbers will increase if fed.

You can use organic fertilizers whether or not you spread compost. They'll work the same either way.

Morpheuspa,
how about aeration and de-thatching?
are they necessary before I start with the organic program?
I do plan on de-thatching in the spring to remove dead material / grass in the lawn (the lawn has approximately 30%-40% brownish yellow color throughout) and to remove the reported thatch layer..

I'm not convinced you have any thatch. Lawn companies like to bring in the special equipment to make a quick $250. Dethatching and aerating are often called for but not needed. If you stick your finger into the sod, do you have to dig through an inch thick layer of something that seems like compost? If so then you might have thatch. The organic way to get rid of that fast is to spray it with molasses (3 ounces per 1,000 square feet). Molasses feeds the bacteria which decompose the thatch.

Weren't you over watering the grass last summer? I'm remembering that you said you (or someone) was going to go to a less frequent watering schedule. That often performs miracles in a lawn that otherwise is well cared for but not performing.

Weren't you over watering the grass last summer?
Yes, I am the guy.
Thanks for all of your help.
The information you and Morpeuspa have provided is very helpful.
Starting in the spring I am going to give the organic lawn program a try.
Along with the proper watering technique you suggested. (1" of water as needed; all in one watering session)

My only concern is how to protect the lawn from crabgrass.

Any suggestions?

Can I use a syntheic pre-emergant product?

There's no need to aerate or dethatch before organics (in fact, that thatch, once exposed to organic food, becomes food itself).

I did nothing before the transfer and my old lawn had a fair bit of thatch (maybe half an inch). That was gone by the end of the season as the flourishing bacteria and fungi ate it.

You can use a synthetic pre-emergent! I do--prodiamine (Barricade) applied when the forsythia bud up to bloom. I tend to go a hair early, but Barricade at the levels I use protects for 6 to 7 months anyway.

Which one you use is up to you and what you can find locally. Most have their advantages and disadvantages, and most work just fine.

Morpheuspa,
It sounds like I am in a similar position (lawn and soil conditions) as you were before you switched over to the organic fertilizer.
Could you please list the program steps you use?
i.e. Types (names) of orgnaic fertilizers you use and when to apply them.

Thanks.

bwahahahaha! Yeah, morph...what are your program steps?

I'm laughing because I've known morph online for several years. He never seems to follow the same plan two years in a row. He has tried hard to overdose with organics and he's tried starvation diets. In the end I'd say you just can't do it wrong as far as organics. Somewhere between 3 and 50 apps per year is the right number. When doesn't matter either.

As to what to use, use what ever is convenient for you. He uses Milorganite and soybean meal. I can only find Milorganite on rare occasions and soybean meal is $1 per pound in bulk down here. But I can find corn meal and soybean meal all year long, so that's what I use.

I found that my grass will tend to go yellowish after a couple months. I came up with the federal holiday schedule to beat that. If I fertilize on Washington's Birthday (my winterizer here in Texas), again on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, and Thanksgiving, then my grass will never turn yellowish.

>>bwahahahaha! Yeah, morph...what are your program steps?

Bite me, Texas boy.

>>I'm laughing because I've known morph online for several years. He never seems to follow the same plan two years in a row

Actually, there's no seems to about it. I never have followed the same plan two years in a row, because no two years are the same, and the goals I have for that year aren't the same.

There's zero consistency if you view it from outside that framework. Inside it, it makes sense.

>>He has tried hard to overdose with organics and he's tried starvation diets. In the end I'd say you just can't do it wrong as far as organics. Somewhere between 3 and 50 apps per year is the right number. When doesn't matter either.

True. The last two years, I've centered around 70 pounds per thousand of organic grains, mostly soybean meal. But I'm not afraid to modify that if I have a specific issue, or if the color starts to fade.

It's one advantage of organics, you can wing it pretty effectively.

do you have a jump off point to start frm?
maybe what month to start the program?
i live in central massachusetts and can have snow on the ground until the first of april, and hopefully not until mid april.
time between fertilizations?
what are some of the signs you look for in your lawn? thanks

The jump point is usually May first, across the majority of the United States (including MA). While fertilization earlier than that using organics isn't going to cause a problem, there's no real reason to. The lawn doesn't need it if you winterized.

If you didn't winterize, a weak fertilization when growth resumes might not be a bad idea. Half rate on Milorganite or around 7 to 8 pounds of soybean meal per thousand will do it fine. Then feed normally May 1-May 20th.

But it also wouldn't be an error to just wait for May. The grass will manage.

Time between fertilizations...variable. Post May, I won't feed until August again. The grass doesn't need summer fertilization. Although again, done organically, it's not a problem. It's just not strictly necessary.

Fall is the season to hit it hard. I feed monthly August to October, which starts to release three weeks post feeding. After that, winterize when it's time and call it a year.

Southern grasses will differ as their growth tendencies differ. Northern lawns are more cyclic. Feeding like that means you never run out of nitrogen and rarely, if ever, see signs that the lawn can use a feeding (if you do, it happens in late April when you're already thinking about it anyway).

Another thought.

That rule set I gave up there? It works well for northern lawns. It's a nice feeding with enough mass going down to enhance your organic matter levels over time (years).

However, the amounts applied per thousand square feet have varied widely in my case, mostly experimentally. 70 pounds is the lowest number I've used that's still very effective.

1,300 pounds per thousand square feet is the highest amount I've used per year, and that was extraordinarily effective (but back-breaking, expensive, and generated a constant miasma of mild decay over the property--not enough that anybody would complain, though, and not enough that I found it even slightly annoying).

So the real rule is that anything from about 50 on the low side to 1,300 pounds per thousand per year on the high side is completely acceptable.

That top flight year involved a grand total of around 37 pounds of nitrogen per thousand square feet that year. Do that synthetically and you just sterilized the soil until it washes out. Done organically, the grass exploded and started trying to strangle passing animals.

So there really aren't that many rules. The ones I gave in the above posting are just a nice guideline for a great lawn.

However, the amounts applied per thousand square feet have varied widely in my case, mostly experimentally. 70 pounds is the lowest number I've used that's still very effective.
Question: checking my math?
if it is a 50lbs. bag of fertilizer, I would apply approximately 1.4 bags per 1000 sq/ft.
If my lawn in 7500 sq ft. I would need 10.5; 50lbs bags of fertilizer.

Does that sound right?

Thank You

Over the course of the season, yes. Divide by about four for a per-application amount--so about 0.3 bags per thousand square feet per application.

In my case, using soybean meal, I apply around 1 bag per lawn sub-section, which is 3,000 square feet (and a little more on average).

Or 0.3 bags per thousand square feet per application, a grand total of 1.2 bags per year.

It does depend on which fertilizer you're using. Do that with any synthetic and you just killed a lot of stuff.

Got it thanks so much for all of your help...