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Basic Outline to Follow for Organic Lawn Care

claga
9 years ago

I have made earlier post describing the problems I am having with my lawn; red thread, dollar spot and a lack of color.
I had a lawn service; recently I stopped the service following the last winterizing fertilization.
I live Central Massachusetts (zone 5B)

The lawn consist of Tall fescue and KBG

House faces due north with partial shade both side yards. Front yard only gets mid to late afternoon sun. Backyard full sun.

I have irrigation.

A little more information about my lawn:
It's in a 3-4 year old housing development.
The soil is said to be clay based.
Ph 6.8
We had a late spring the first year we moved into our home the home in 2011.
The builder put in the lawn late because the soil on-site was very wet from heavy snowfall we had that winter, and heavy early spring rains. The loam was spread and hydroseeded in mid May.
I then hired an organic lawn service company, with hopes of trying to improve the soil conditions.

Lawn service technicians notes:
The first application 6/27/2011 organic fertilizer and grub control along with weed treatment.was applied.
The second application 7/28/2011 organic fertilizer was applied to promote greening, build soil, and retain water.
Early fall organic fertilizer applied.
Fall aerated and over-seeded
Late fall organic winterizer fertilizer applied.

I was not happy with the progress of the lawn and switched companies the following spring to a syntheic / organic program which I had for the last three years before ending the service, because of the red thread, dollar spot, and lack of color the lawn had again this year.
In hind-sight maybe I should have given the organic program more time.

Current lawn service notes:
Which they attribute along with the high humidity levels this summer lead to the red thread and dollar spot this year.

There is >1" of thatch, causing a lack of water and nutrient absorption.

Material available at either the local hardware or large box stores are Milorganite, Jonathan Greene organic fertilizers

I also have a Mahoney's Garden Center that advertises organic lawn fertilizers (Jonathan Greene) not sure what else they may have I have never been.

I basically don't know how or when to start with an organic program and what soil preparation (aeration / de-thatching) is needed prior to starting.

Thank You

Comments (40)

  • danielj_2009
    9 years ago

    Hi Claga! I was in a similar situation as yours in the spring. I had a new lawn and was trying to keep it nice, so I came here and found guys like morpheus and dchall. I think dchall tends to defer to morpheus on northern grasses, and vice versa.

    Anyway, before anybody with real knowledge responds, there are 2 thinks I can tell you. 1. Photos always help. If you have any specific problem areas, photos are good. 2. Not much can be done for you without a good soil test. I don't know if it is too late to get a soil sample (or too close to your last fertilization) but you definitely will need to get that. Morpheus recommends Logan Labs in Ohio, which is what I used. [I'm editing this post because in the thread "Spray Iron on the Lawn" morpheus directly addresses soil sampling at this time of year.]

    If you find my long post (101 response) titled, "Got My Soil Results - What's Next?" you will see the process you will probably go through. Basically you post your lab results and morpheus sets you up with a plan to get your soil balanced. It's a fantastic thing he does for people and it makes forums like this so valuable.

    One thing this novice noticed about your post: It seemed odd to me that you could have a 1" thick layer of thatch on such a young lawn. Thatch is not what most people think it is. It isn't just dry dead material on the top of the soil. If you have 1" of real thatch, then the top 1" of what looks like your soil is not really soil but more a mat of tangled, fibrous roots (for lack of a better term).

    Well, good luck and hopefully one of the experts will get back to you soon!

    This post was edited by danielj_2009 on Sun, Nov 16, 14 at 17:12

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    No prep is necessary at all.

    At this point, I'd start in spring around May 1. Lawns don't really need spring fertilization until then. But I think I laid out a plan for that.

    You could just follow the 2014 additions I made to my lawn; they're pretty simple, very well-clocked to the greater region, and pretty cheap all things considered. It would give a nice, moderate feeding.

    Here is a link that might be useful: 2014 Lawn Additions

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    front yard lawn

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    front lawn close-up

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    front lawn rakings

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    back yard lawn

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    backyard lawn close-up

  • dchall_san_antonio
    9 years ago

    I understand the concept of information overload. Paralysis by analysis. Organic lawn care is really simple. Just start applying your favorite organic at a rate of 15 to 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Apply whenever you want, 365 days per year. It will not seem to do anything once the soil temps drop below 50 degrees, but it will still be there when the soil temps warm up. Generally 3 applications per year should work for a normal lawn. Timing for those would be Memorial Day, Labor Day, and Thanksgiving(ish).

    You do not need any prep to get this going. Your thatch issue will resolve all by itself once you start the organics. That thatch becomes more organic fertilizer, so leave it alone. Aeration is not your problem. Aeration can be a problem for football fields and golf courses, but your lawn is completely different from athletic field lawns.

    Proper watering is very important to having a nice lawn with no issues. The soil MUST dry out completely at the surface or you are inviting both disease and weeds. Our mantra is 'deep and infrequent'. When you water, water a full inch at a time. Frequency depends on temperature but you should NEVER need to water more often than once every 5 days.

    Note how much simpler this than what your lawn services have been providing. It really is this simple. When you follow this simple plan, most of your lawn issues will disappear. You might be visited by grubs next summer but don't count on it. I've never seen them in my lawn. Also know that there is an inexpensive organic solution to almost every lawn issue.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    thatch layer

  • danielj_2009
    9 years ago

    Wow. Photos really do round out your post. That lawn looks fantastic compared to what I was expecting. With a starting point like that, if you follow the recommendations above and get the soil test, that lawn will be awesome by next fall.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Photo's can be decieving..
    The lawn was very thick and grew well but suffered from red thread, dollar spot and lacked a green lush appearance.
    It was yellowish/brown and half dead looking from mid-July until now.
    The reasons why I am reaching out to the blog members for help...

    Many thanks to everyone how has responded to my multiple post, all the information is deeply appreciated.
    I am only hoping for an outline to get me started

    Thanks again

  • danielj_2009
    9 years ago

    I just saw your other correspondence. I would try to keep everything on one discussion, like this one, so you can refer back to it as needed. That's why my post is at 101 comments.

    I would just go ahead and do a soil test before the ground freezes. Search the forum for "Logan Labs" and you'll find a lot on how to sample your soil. The Logan Labs website will also tell you what to do. If you post your results here I'm sure (I think! :) ) that morph will give you the feedback you need to go forward with some sense of purpose.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for your tip on getting a soil test and keeping everything on a single post.

    Any idea's what I can do to remove the yellowish/brown hay looking like grasses that are throughout the lawn?

    Is it dead grass that will eventually de-compose and disappear?

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    Is that hay recent? If so, it may just be the grass falling into dormancy for winter.

    If not, then something's awry...but from the photos I can't put my finger n what it is. It's too even and looks too natural to be a disease.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Is that hay recent? No

    This is what the lawn looked like from mid-July until now. The lawn looked this way in mid July when I reported a lack of color.
    I was told by the lawn service company the lawn had red thread. They hoped it would grow out following a mid- July fertilization and with less humid weather.

    There was no improvement following the fertilization.
    When I reported the lack of improvement I was told the red thread was gone but now the lawn had dollar spot and was treated with a fungicide. The service company also reported the >1" of thatch which was inhibiting the nutrients and water absorption.

    I am not sure if the discoloration is dead grass.

    Any htoughts?

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    That does not look like red thread.

    What it most resembles is a severely underfed turf trying desperately to keep the crown and at least some blades alive. Or, why I'm not really a fan of services that feed your lawn. Because they do a lousy job.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    If it is a underfed issue what will happen to it when the lawn is properly fertilized?

    Is it dead grass?

    Should I de-thatch to remove it?

    If not what steps are necessary?

    Thanks

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    It'll pick up (assuming that's the case, there's a thousand other things it could be) once fed in spring.

    Yes, it's definitely dead grass.

    No, don't dethatch. It'll rot off by itself.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    what fertilizer would you apply in the spring?

    and how often would you apply to get to the proper nutrient level?

    I am not sure if any of the grains (alfalfa or corn meal) you mention are available.

    If not available could you recomend another tyype?

    Thanks

  • BoatDrinksq5
    9 years ago

    milorganite, oceangrow, baystate are all good commercially avaliable options also. Cracked corn from the bird feed area of a hardware store (6-8$/50lbs) is good also.

    As far as 'easy to source'.

    Plus milorganite type natural fertilizers are great all around (+iron)

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    +1 Boat. There's nothing wrong with Milo or OceanGro or Baystate.

    I use plenty of Milo every year in the gardens (I like the fact that it's black, so doesn't show against the dark mulch). It does a great job feeding and the iron means my plants are always deep, dark green.

    Application at bag rate of any organic fertilizer available off the shelf starting May 1 and going every six weeks will feed the lawn more than well enough through the season. Once a month would be absolutely certain to feed the lawn beautifully.

  • BoatDrinksq5
    9 years ago

    What is the avg price you are seeing for 50lbs of SBM?

    Cheaper than Milo I take it per lb of N?

    I see no mention of iron(milo) on the lawn on your 2014 report... and only once in 2013. (besides the vigiro possibly in small amts...)

    Iron levels naturally high? SBM gives maint amt of iron?

    This post was edited by BoatDrinksQ5 on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 14:18

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Maybe one organic approach is "leave well enough alone."
    I've fertilized my lawn once in the past 8 years. It is always green in spring, early summer, and fall; it may or may not be green in late summer depending on how dry summer is. It's a mix of tall fescue, fine fescue, a bit of bluegrass but unfortunately, some areas of Poa trivialis. I cut it at the highest setting on my Kubota BX MMM. It has no disease areas; broad leaved weeds after a couple broadcast treatments are almost completely under control. Or at least the ones I worry about, I can now treat them with spot spraying. There are minor patches of crab grass that I hit with drive, and sedge with sedgehammer. It looks better than any other lawn in the neighborhood except a couple people who water and have contracts for treatment. Cutting high is 90% of the battle. I can't understand why people want their lawns to look like putting greens.

    Mind you, just sharing my thoughts on my experience. YMMV. I have good loamy soil that retains nutrients. I can certainly see a case for feeding on a very sandy soil, but IMHO to think all but the most hungry grasses (bent grass maybe?) would need more than once a year feeding, if that, is ridiculous. My fescues grow like crazy every spring. Somehow grasses survived and evolved for millions of years without having fertilizer sprayed on them twice a year.

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    >>What is the avg price you are seeing for 50lbs of SBM?
    Cheaper than Milo I take it per lb of N?

    $15 for 50 pounds of soy, at 7% nitrogen (overall), equals $4.28 per pound of N.

    $13 for 36 pounds of Milo, at 5% nitrogen, equals $7.22 per pound of N.

    Overall, soy is cheaper per pound of N, does a slightly better job at adding OM, but doesn't have the iron (that I no longer need that much anyway).

    >>I see no mention of iron(milo) on the lawn on your 2014 report... and only once in 2013. (besides the vigiro possibly in small amts...)

    Check the garden report, where it's pretty much 100% Milorganite (and a tiny bit of ferrous sulfate in July). It's my heavy hitter in the gardens, but soy is the heavy hitter in the lawn.

    >>Iron levels naturally high? SBM gives maint amt of iron?

    Iron levels adjusted to be high, in the 300 PPM range. Years of Milo applications plus ferrous sulfate plus spraying iron (pretty minor change on that one) pushed it from 13 PPM to over 300.

    At a pH that hovers around 6.2, that's entirely sufficient for even an elite bluegrass lawn.

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    >>Maybe one organic approach is "leave well enough alone."

    Zero input is certainly an acceptable organic approach, with some caveats.

    >>summer depending on how dry summer is. It's a mix of tall fescue, fine fescue, a bit of bluegrass but unfortunately, some areas of Poa trivialis.

    Most fescues will tolerate zero input just fine, while bluegrass really does want more nitrogen than simple grass-cycling can supply.

    The P. trivialis wouldn't be acceptable to most of us, but can be taken out fairly easily with Tenacity and time.

    >>I cut it at the highest setting on my Kubota BX MMM. It has no disease areas; broad leaved weeds after a couple broadcast treatments are almost completely under control. Or at least the ones I worry about, I can now treat them with spot spraying. There are minor patches of crab grass that I hit with drive, and sedge with sedgehammer. It looks better than any other lawn in the neighborhood except a couple people who water and have contracts for treatment. Cutting high is 90% of the battle. I can't understand why people want their lawns to look like putting greens.

    Because we want them to look like putting greens. I love looking out at a dark green, perfect tabletop of Kentucky bluegrass. Since i can do that with a minimum of chemicals, and all of those non-toxic or of very low toxicity, so much the better.

    Your mileage will vary and what I like you may not like, and vice-versa.

    >>Mind you, just sharing my thoughts on my experience. YMMV. I have good loamy soil that retains nutrients. I can certainly see a case for feeding on a very sandy soil, but IMHO to think all but the most hungry grasses (bent grass maybe?) would need more than once a year feeding, if that, is ridiculous. My fescues grow like crazy every spring. Somehow grasses survived and evolved for millions of years without having fertilizer sprayed on them twice a year.

    Our lawns are not nature, which tends to create "grasslands," which are not pure grass. There are plenty of other plants in there.

    Plus the grasses in nature grow very tall, aren't cut more than once or twice a year by migrating cattle, seed out naturally, and are reliant on plains rainfall (not much in summer, in other words).

    That does not describe my Pennsylvania lawn, where rainfall is consistent except sometimes in July and August, it's cut fairly short (my chosen cultivars are dwarfs), it's never allowed to seed to renew itself (and the daughters wouldn't reliably resemble the parents anyway).

    Low maintenance lawn care is certainly possible, but it depends on the performance level you want. Demanding my lawn at low maintenance nitrogen isn't going to happen.

    Most of us here are interested in raising the performance of our lawns, with rare exception. That requires input.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I use plenty of Milo every year in the gardens (I like the fact that it's black, so doesn't show against the dark mulch). It does a great job feeding and the iron means my plants are always deep, dark green.

    Application at bag rate of any organic fertilizer available off the shelf starting May 1 and going every six weeks will feed the lawn more than well enough through the season. Once a month would be absolutely certain to feed the lawn beautifully

    Sounds like a plan

    Thank you so much!!!

    You mention using soy on your lawn. (if I can find it in my area)

    At what rate and how often?

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    Soy's "bag rate" would be 15 pounds per thousand square feet. What that works out to be on your spreader is anybody's guess--it's a meal, so moisture content and size vary a bit.

    Fortunately, anywhere around 15 is just fine, and accidentally going somewhat high or low is not an issue. Just feed again in a longer or shorter period of time than normal.

    If it helps, on my Scott's EdgeGuard Broadcast, it's a setting around 7. On my mother's identical spreader, usually around 9 (spreaders do differ a bit individually due to construction variance).

  • maplerbirch
    9 years ago

    Getting to the point of the possible fungus problems mentioned earlier, we know that poor drainage and excessive moisture creates the environment for most fungi to grow.
    This is especially an issue on heavier soils such as you've described.
    The advice to allow the surface to dry completely before irrigating again will help that situation and should also improve tilth deeper into the soil.

  • danielj_2009
    9 years ago

    >> Claga said:

    >> what fertilizer would you apply in the spring?

    >> and how often would you apply to get to the proper nutrient >> level?

    >> I am not sure if any of the grains (alfalfa or corn meal) you >> mention are available.

    Claga: I have been interested to follow the conversations you've been having with the experts regarding how to fix your lawn. I know you are concerned with the specific question of red thread, possible thatch, "hay" in your lawn and so on, but solving these problems may not be the whole picture when you are interested in a "basic outline to follow..." as you put it.

    I will admit I am not an expert, but I can say that I've learned a great deal this year. Fertilizer may not be the only thing your soil needs, and a soil test will reveal that. I want to urge you to get soil samples that you can send off to Logan Labs before your soil freezes. You have gone through several years of disappointing results, but now that you have come here your lawn will be as nice as you are willing to make it. The soil test will reveal any deficiencies, and guys like morpheus are well qualified to explain how to get the soil up to snuff. Just getting that soil sample may save you another few years of problems.

    I know neither morpheus nor dchall have mentioned the soil test to you (maybe because I have). If there is some reason you DON'T need one I'm sure they will say so, but I can't imagine what that would be.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    9 years ago

    To find soybean meal or alfalfa pellets near you, go to Google Maps and type in "feed stores near Springfield" or whatever your nearby town is. Then start making calls to get prices.

    When you ask for alfalfa pellets, be sure to mention pellets or else you'll get a price for alfalfa bales.

  • sc77 (6b MA)
    9 years ago

    The way I found soybean meal was by going to the blue seal website and using their dealer locator.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Blue Seal Dealer Locator

    This post was edited by SC77 on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 20:52

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks SC77,
    There are several Blue Seal dealers within 10 miles of my home or my place of work.

    All,
    Below I posted the products available.
    Any thoughts on which one to use?
    The information given did not listed amount of sq/ft coverage per 50lbs bag.
    Do you know what the coverage might be?

    Safe 'N Simple Pre��"emergence Weed Control 9��"0��"0

    100% organic, Safe 'N Simpleî Pre-emergence Weed Control 9-0-0 is an all-natural plant product made from Corn Gluten, a dried protein separated from corn during the manufacture of starch in the food industry. In 1985, while studying its value as a fertilizer, researchers at Iowa State University discovered that Corn Gluten contains a natural organic compound which inhibits root development in seedlings. Germination occurs, but seedlings die from lack of a root system. The result is an environmentally safe, non-toxic, completely natural weed control.

    Safe 'N Simpleî 9-0-0 provides weed control and an excellent source of slow-release nitrogen, 9% nitrogen by weight, in an easy to spread crumble form. When spread at the recommended rate Safe 'N Simpleî 9-0-0 provides 4 lbs. of nitrogen/ 1,000 square feet. Nitrogen is released as microorganisms break down in the soil.

    Available in 25 & 50 lb. bags.

    * Size and Price: 25 lbs - $29.9950 lbs - $47.99
    * Quantity: 1

    Safe 'N Simpleî Farm, Field & Pasture Food

    Safe 'N Simpleî Farm, Field & Pasture Food 5-1-5 is an all-purpose natural fertilizer containing soybean and alfalfa meals, nutrient rich organic plant material that will enhance the soil, increase soil biological activity, and provide needed nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium for healthy lush plant growth. Recycling plant material back into the soil is natureâÂÂs way of replenishing nutrients and rebuilding soils. Conventional synthetic fertilizers supply plant nutrients. Safe 'N Simpleî 5-1-5 provides plant nutrition and promotes a healthy soil ecosystem. Farm, Field & Pasture Food nutrients are derived from soybean meal, alfalfa meal, fish meal, and sulfate of potash-magnesia.

    * Size and Price: 50 lbs - $26.99
    * Quantity: 1


    Safe 'N Simpleî Lawn Food 6��"2��"4

    Safe 'N Simpleî Lawn Food is a natural based fertilizer containing soybean, alfalfa, and fish meals, organic materials that enhance the soil, increase soil biological activity, and provide needed nutrients for a thick healthy green lawn.

    Recycling plant material back into the soil is nature's way of replenishing nutrients and rebuilding soils in natural habitats. Conventional synthetic fertilizers supply plant nutrients. Safe 'N Simpleî 6-2-4 provides plant nutrition and promotes a healthy soil ecosystem. The key to long term lawn success is a healthy soil environment.

    Available in 50lb. bags

    * Size and Price: 50 lbs - $26.99 ...

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    I hate to say it, but I don't like any of the three. The first is almost a dollar a pound for what you're getting, and you can do almost as well in terms of nitrogen (and better on price by far) if you can find plain soybean meal.

    The second has added SulPoMag. That's OK if you need sulfur, potash, and magnesium. You don't need sulfur or magnesium. I tend to dislike added P sources in organics as they're unreliable and always come with problems (magnesium, in this case).

    #3 is tolerable, but again, has extra potassium sources (fish meal, which at least i don't disapprove of). It's a great way to rapidly mis-balance your soil once potassium is put into balance.

    I'm a big fan of primarily using nitrogen sources and re-balancing other nutrients separately (although soybean meal is 7-1-2 or 7-2-1, the numbers are mis-balanced enough not to cause problems).

  • sc77 (6b MA)
    9 years ago

    That's interesting... When I ordered last fall, I don't even think they had that Safe N' Simple line of products. I got pure soybean meal, intended as animal feed. The guy are the farm supply store was curious about what animals I had, said he doesn't get too many requested for soybean meal and would have to special order it (no extra cost though).

    I believe it was $20 for 50lb bags of regular soybean meal. The bags were just blue and white, with the Blue Seal label, but no reference to lawn care at all. I ended up getting 5 bags last year, need to replenish for the spring, so I will see if it's still available. Maybe they just don't advertise it on their website. I'll let you know what my store says.

  • sc77 (6b MA)
    9 years ago

    **Update: Just called my local farm supply store. You will not see the regular Soybean meal listed on their website, it's just in the dealers catalog. At my store, it costs $19 for 50lbs of just soybean meal.

    Just placed an order for 5 more bags!

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    Be careful with over the winter storage of grains and soybean meal. Animals--most notably mice--really adore them and will go to great lengths to get into the bags.

    That heavy paper? Three seconds with their teeth. Plastic, ditto.

    It's wise to either NOT store grains over the winter, or store them in a solid plastic container with a very tight lid.

  • sc77 (6b MA)
    9 years ago

    Good point, I didn't think of that. Thanks for the tip Morph

  • dchall_san_antonio
    9 years ago

    Other animals of the insect variety also will get into grains over the winter. I try to use up everything before it gets too cold to use them. If you live where it will freeze the grains all the way through, then that will usually take care of the insects. But even if the insects get to them, I still use them in the spring. They are a little icky but still good stuff.

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    9 years ago

    There's nothing wrong with spreading weevils along with the soy, we've all done it. The weevils ate the soy, will die in open air, add their protein the lawn, and it all works out.

    Mice...ew. I had mice in the garage, cellar, and apparently one that decided the air system of my car was a good place to nest. That cost a bit to fix.

    Lately, I don't store grain over the winter for that reason. Mostly. I still have a little alfalfa left over, but that's in sealed plastic on a shelf. And a few bags of Milorganite, but it's not a favorite of any insect or rodent.

  • claga
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for all of your inputs concerning the Blue Seal organic lawn fertilizers.
    I chose the "product" drop down, in there was a lawn care selection that listed the products I posted.
    I'll call the local dealer a find out if I can just buy pure soybean meal.
    If not; Milorganite and the Jonathan Greene Organic fertilizers and available to me locally.
    Although I haven't been able to find out what the ingredients are in the Jonathan Greene products.