Go hire a man with a Bob-cat, and have him dig down that 15 degree slope beside your walls, to a more manageable slope, clean up the concrete block walls, and use a regular rider, or walk behind type to mow the new grass you will plant there. I use a Snapper Hi-vac Rider on my hilly/sloped yards, and it never complains about steep slopes. It will rear up on a hill with a full bagger, if you "pop" the clutch, which the instructions warn against doing, but normal kinds of low angle slopes don't faze it. I've used mine for about 35-40 years and it hasn't "got" me yet. And, my slopes are better than 20 degrees.

Safety, maneuverability and lubrication ... You'll note that the rider manuafactures don't give their blessing for too much of a slope. I haven't used the gravely, but generally like mid size walk behinds for their maneuverability. Time to try some things out. Local rental store?

I continued to make phone calls and everyone was in agreement regarding maneuverability on the wide area walks but couldn't necessarily recomend them for slopes. Some said it was overkill for the amount of land I have.

I may still go to a few dealer/rental locations to demo some units.

Otherwise for 21/22 self propelled mower I'm going to go with one of these models. Not sure which route I should take. I have some loyalty towards Briggs products and I see some comments about the Honda engine being a gas guzzler.

Honda HRR216K5VKA
Toro 20099

Safety, maneuverability and lubrication ... You'll note that the rider manuafactures don't give their blessing for too much of a slope. I haven't used the gravely, but generally like mid size walk behinds for their maneuverability. Time to try some things out. Local rental store?

Hmmm, reset the tubes and it posted twice... I hadn't heard that on the Honda. The Kohler Courage is basically a Honda Clone in my book. Given my druthers, I'd buy a Honda engine 1st. On the Personal Pace drive. I love them, BUT slopes do take some getting used to. IE if you are mowing up a slope, you may have to nudge the machine ahead slightly to disengage the wheel clutches. What tees me off about Honda drives are things like cables and belts are much harder to service than they need to be. Both are great quality mowers however.

I'm tooling through all the reviews on the Toro and Honda I mentioned trying to find consistency on what folks don't like.

For some reason Home Depot says the Toro is good for flat areas with obstacles and the Honda is good for sloped areas with obstacles, yet neither mfg makes this claim.

When you say nudge the machine, are you saying you have to give it a little extra jolt to get it going up the slope?

I remember the Snapper self propelled unit I had with front wheel drive...holy jeez was that thing terrible. The wheels would just spin and I ended up putting forth more effort pushing this tank rather than using a standard light weight mower.

I think the experience with that Snapper has me skeptical.

You are dealing with lawnmower salsemen who have one goal in mind - maximizing their commission.

For a .33 acre lawn just get a Toro Super Recycler or the Honda equivalent with a splash lubricated motor. Either one will have plenty of pulling power and a strong transmission that will mow your lawn for decades. I like the Toro Personal Pace drive for it's rugged simple design and easy to use controls.

There is no need to spend extra for a commercial lawn mower or one with a so-called pressure lubricated engine for mowing on a hill. Splash lubricated engines are designed to run well on a wide variety of terrains and they have proven to be a very reliable cost-effective lawnmower powerplant. The Toro or Honda motor should run for 3 decades or more with only normal maintenance.

Do you think the Toro or Honda would be better for stop and pull action? (ie for mowering in and around things)

I certainly like the controls of a Personal Pace better than the Honda. The nudge comes in when the operator backs off the drive handle, it must roll ahead just a touch for the wheel clutches to release.

I would pick the Toro Super Recycler, because I find the controls to be intuitively easy to use. Realize that there are two series of Toro mower. The Recycler, which is sold by Home Depot, etc., and the Super Recycler sold by dealers. Although the rear wheel drive Recycler series are certainly good mechines in my opinion the Super Recycler machines are worth the extra $100.00 or so.

I almost want to get the Toro just because of the BS stunt Honda pulls with the same mower @ Home Depot ($399) vs. the dealer channel ($479). They add the "K5" for the dealers yet they are the same spec. Do they do this to confuse the consumers? I confirmed the spec with Honda.

They should at least have the decency to have a viable dealer channel strategy.

What are the true advantages of the Super Recycler vs the Recycler?

1) 5 vs. 3 year warranty
2) Free blade sharpening for 5 years
3) ?
4) ?

Super Recyclers are sturdier, have better drive axle componants plus have lubeable wheel attachment arms to start with. Side by side, it is easy to see the better value in the SR vs the "tin lizzy". The points you mentioned are appealing, but the truth is you will likely not ever use the warranty. It's good to have but... Shops I know include sharpening in the preventive maintenance package- so if you have your maintenance done it may not be extra anyways.

You have been extremely helpful. Thansk for the feedback.

One last question. I haven't read any Honda reviews regarding its ability to climb slopes but I've found a couple negative reviews regarding the Toro and slopes.

You always have to take reivews with a grain of salt BUT I'm skeptical because Home Depot does list the Honda for hilly terrain and they list Toro for flat terrain. At that point I start to question it.

I have a steep hill on one side of the house. The Super Recycler has no problem asending the hill with a full bag of grass. The only time you could encounter a problem climbing a hill would be if the drive was out of adjustment. But that will happen with any lawn mower.

The Super Recycler is a much better mower for the reasons tomplum mentioned. It is designed to run for 3 decades with only normal maintenance. What you will find with less expensive box store models is that after several years controls will start to break, transmissiotn will have problems, wheels will loosen, etc.

If you decide to go with a box store mower be sure to get one with rear and not front wheel drive.

Here's just a suggestion. Not all ground is best suited for lawn grass as a cover due to man hours and cost to maintain and just plain physical difficulty. Is it possible to use another form of ground cover that is best suited for your climate? I would reccomend Asian Jasimen or a low growing juniper to cover the ground and save you tons of money and work. Both are easy to maintain.

After three years my Toro is junk. Never again.

I ended up getting a Snapper with rear wheel drive. I don't have the model off hand but it works like a dream.

The dealer I went to said I'd be fighting with the push pull of the Toro on the slopes and didn't recommend it. I actually went to him to buy it.

He pointed out this newer model of a Snapper that had the smoothest push pull action of any mower I tried.

The 8.75 HP is overkill BUT it mulches like nothing I've seen before. I also really like the top side self propelled palm lever.

I got the Toro Recycler in 1999.Only things I have done are tune ups and oil changes.PP drive looks the same as on the Super R.Only difference is the cast deck(which is not worth the extra $150.00.Mine is 12 years old and has no rust at all.