The GCV 160 engine is smoother and quieter than the Tecumseh LV195, but has less power. I have enjoyed my 10684 for a year now. The Tecumseh always starts and never bogs down. It's easy on gas and doesn't leak oil. A Honda GCV I had on a Honda mower did leak oil from the governor shaft on the back of the block. I wouldn't mind having another Honda engine, but I'm now interested in the 190cc commercial version that is supposed to appear on the next-generation Lawn-Boy commercial. The Tecumseh is a workhorse and there is no reason it shouldn't outlast the deck with normal care and maintenance.

I completely agree with Saxman !!!

T-Man

I would get the Tecumseh engine.

Thank you all for your comments. Good to hear others are having positive experiences with the Tecumseh. I haven't made the purchase yet, but I'm leaning toward keeping that extra $100 in my pocket.

Not a thing wrong with the Tecumseh but if I could afford the extra bucks I'd get the Honda. With the price of gas these days if you have a large yard to do the Honda might just save enough in gas to make up the difference, a big hunk of it anyway.

I was in the same quandary as you. I looked at my Crapsman, which is falling apart and can't cut well, and realized that is has the Tecumseh engine. I last changed the oil and spark 7 years ago.

I ended up buying the 10685 last weekend at HD for $270. It seems the companies really make you pay for a nice puser. I wasn't excited about a SP mower, but I used it tonight and was impressed. Only downside of the mower is the small bag. Everything else is golden.

Wow bosun2 - great price! HD in my area is selling the 10685 for $349. Local dealer has the 10683 for $329 and the 10694 for $429.

Is the 10685 Tecumseh powered, or Honda?
After ALL that's been said (except for Walrus'
Honda commentary...I expect that from Bob, by
the way), you HAD BETTER have bought Brand T !!!

T-Man

All 106xx are Tecumseh. All other non-commercials are Honda except the bottom two 107xx (Insight Platinm w/alum. deck). If you like the Insight design and want the aluminum deck but not the Honda GCV160, one of these two might be interesting. The new 22270 (if it ever appears) takes it a step farther with the Insight design, alum. deck, commercial Honda OHC engine and greasable steel wheels. That one would be tempting.

Our local HD had about 3 10685 left--I chose to buy at $350, and I had a 10% coupon. When I made it there two days later to purchase it, they had marked it down to 300. Thus my 270. I couldn't see paying more than $60 or $70 for the Honda engine--when it became $170 for the "better" engine I couldn't walk away from the Tecumseh. Like I said, I just went 7 years in my old Tecumseh powered mower without doing anything but add gas. Nothing. Hard to argue with that.

I'll take better care of the LB.

saxman1 -
The 22270 has appeared. I have seen it at two mower dealers in Cleveland suburbs. I'm not interested in it in the push form, so I didn't even ask the price. However, if they made a self propelled version (22271 ?) that would be interesting.

The one dealer had a 22243 still available. I wonder when it will sell.

Just a clarification on power. The Honda GCV160 actually has more torque than the LV195 - it has fewer CCs, but makes up for that with the OHV design verses the LV's flat head.

The LV195 and Quantum Briggs series are very similar in power. The GCV160 makes about 20% more torque than both flatheads and is similar to the Briggs Intek OHV engine in useable power. I am ignoring the HP ratings and just looking at the torque curves at the legal RPM range these operate in (which have been posted here previously many times).

Jim

They all have enough power. They are all nice little engines. Is the Honda worth $100 more than the T? That's a lot of money for an implied upgrade. 25% price increase.

I think we all get up in arms and want to get the best possible device for our needs. Do you really need the Aluminum deck? The Honda engine? Some of us baby our stuff like crazy. Buy what you want--you will love it either way.

All good comments that have given me things to think about. My dealer is presently out of stock of the 10683, so IÂm going to wait until next week when his shipment is due to arrive to make a decision. Still not sure which direction IÂll go in, so I thought it best to wait until both are available so that IÂm not "forced" into one direction due simply to stock availability.

On another note  and excuse the off-thread comment  my neighbor just bought a Cub Cadet from HD. DonÂt recall the model number, but itÂs the 19 inch push model. I was pretty impressed with the machine considering it goes for $230. One lever deck height adjustment, OHV engine (think itÂs Chinese-made, however  it did not have a Honda or any other logo on it), very nice performer as a mulcher. Gave it a quick spin and was also impressed with the ease of rolling. Yes, itÂs an MTD product, but they crammed a lot of features into a $230 mower.

You talking about this mower?http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_14101_89409_33832_-1#

It has the very same Honda GCV160 engine as the Lawn Boy. I noticed it at my local Co-op this spring. Looks like a nice rig and a bargain. Probably not the same quality of cut as the lawn boy, not to mention that it has no drive mechanism. But it does look like a good value.

Here is a link that might be useful: $230 Cub Cadet

Hello all.

Hi hazozita. Is this the Cub Cadet model?

http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_14101_162708_33832_-1

Here is a link that might be useful: Cub Cadet push mower

Thanks montesa and rollerzeke for the links. I looked at them and I think the mower my neighbor has is the CC-500. Next time I'm over there I'll check to make sure. I know it has a rear bag option, which the 20" model with the Honda engine does not offer. The site describes the engine on the CC-500 as a "Cub Cadet OHV" which makes me think it is the same one as Yardman is offering on their Walmart mowers. But both look like pretty good mowers in terms of features vs. cost.

Wouldn't it be nice if dealers offered you the opportunity to actually take a mower for a "test mow". I'd love to see how a Cub Cadet stacks up against a LB side-by-side!

Hi,

Not sure about Techmusen but I just wanted to give my vote to a Honda. I have a Honda HRC 216 HXA commercial mower and now am on my third season with it. Has a GXV 160 commercial engine on it. I really love it.

It dioes however have two downsides: 1) Price $US 1,242 and 2) weight at 125 lbs. (Not available from Home Depot, Honda Dealers only).

But if you want an ultimate yardstick of a mower to compare with, a Rolls Royce of 21-inch mowers, this I think is the one.

Best, Mike.

My brother bought a fairly expensive Ariens mower with a Tecumseh engine, maybe 15 years ago. Within two years, it started leaking oil at the joint where the oil fill tube joined the crankcase, and he was not able to stop it with replacement O-rings or sealant. Then a few years later it started knocking.

My brother takes good care of his stuff. His 30 year old Stihl 028 chainsaw still runs like new. He just bought one of the Honda engined Cubs to replace the Ariens.

I have a Yard-Man with the Honda engine. It is a mediocre mulcher, a good bagger, and doesn't side-discharge at all. But it starts on the first pull, doesn't burn oil, and only cost $199. It has already done more mowing than most push mowers will do in a lifetime.

Personally, I wouldn't pay $100 more for a Honda. The Tecumseh's can last, but you do really have to take care of their carburetion system. They're a cracker for carb. problems if you don't but seem to run great if you do. Honda's do have nice carbs for starting and all, but not $100 nicer. Honda's are good, but likely a little over-rated. Tecumseh's aren't quite as good (in my opinion) but likely a little under-rated.

Just the fact that several mowers with this consumer grade Honda engine are available for prices ranging from $208 to $230 indicates that, in the case of the Lawnboys, the $100 difference is attributed to more than just the Honda engine. Last time I checked the Lawnboy website, the Hondas were on a more upscale line of mowers than the Tecumsehs.

I have OPEs with Honda, B&S, and Tecumseh engines. I would say that my mower with the consumer grade Honda engine is worth $30 or $40 more than the Tecumseh.

A current check of the Lawnboy website shows the Tecumseh engined 10683 has a factory list price of $359. The higher level 10694 with the Honda engine is $449. A model 10654, with the Honda engine, carries a factory list of $349. The $90 difference between the 10683 and the 10694 is obviously not due entirely to the Honda engine.

bosun, just curious where did you get your 10% off Home Depot coupon? Is it the one you have to send away for? I'm thinking of picking up that same mower as at $270 it's really hard to beat. You can also dl a free extra year of warranty (total: 3-yr wty) coupon at LB's main site thru July 3rd, I believe. Only good on T engine LBs, not Honda.

Guys, I think that Cub Cadet is not a Honda engine but more likely a Chinese knockoff. Note that they DO offer one with a Honda engine, and it says that on their site, but the ones at HD are 173cc, not 160cc which is the standard Honda GCV engine. Also, the 173cc on CC's site does not say Honda engine while the 160 does. I wish they made this CC in a 21" or 22" deck, I'd probably go for it if they did.

Not saying this mower isn't a good value (ball bearing wheels, 3-yr res. wty, single ht. adjust, etc.)...just that the HD models are not Hondas. I looked closely at them vs. the Honda GCV 160 side by side, and they do have a similarly curved oil spout, OHV, etc., but from what I can tell they are indeed a knockoff. Otherwise why don't they say "Honda engine"...and why wouldn't the engines look *exactly* alike b/w the Honda and CC...and one would think that if CC had the Honda engine, it would be branded as such right on the engine, no?

As for is Honda worth the extra 100-120 in the LB series, that is a tough one. I've been debating that myself since April. From an air quality standpoint, my understanding is the T engine is a 3/10 and the H is a 2/10. That matters to me, but don't know if the differential is all that impactful...esp. in residential use.

I wonder if a Chinese knockoff of a Honda engine is actually any worse than a real Honda engine. I think the Chinese know a thing or two about constructing small engines. Otherwise, Briggs would not be building their engines in China.

>You can also dl a free extra year of warranty (total: 3-yr wty) coupon at LB's main site thru July 3rd, I believe. Only good on T engine LBs, not Honda.

CORRECTION: You have a 3-yr wty on the LB Hondas (and all Insight Gold) as well; see http://www.lawn-boy.com/promotion/index.html

To me, the Honda engine is worth paying more for, because it is manufactured in the Honda factory in North Carolina, where 75% of the Honda small power equipment engnes sold worldwide are manufactured. Inasmuch as the price difference of mowers using this engine is apparently only a few dollars if any more than mowers with this Chinese engine, give me the American made Honda.

The one I have on my mower, a Craftsman purchased back in 2000, is still giving perfect service, using no oil in a one year, 60+ hour OCI. I have an hour meter on it, so I know how much it is used. It still starts on the first pull and the oil still looks good after a year. I always change it anyway, using Mobil One 5W30.

I got my 10% coupon after filing a change-of-address with the post office.

I would be wary of any no-name made in China. Certain companies produce good products overseas, but they have a real Q.C. program in place.

I went through lots of money in sailboat gear from Asia. A lot of it was copied from proven European or U.S. gear. Many castings were changed to save money, or they used less expensive alloys that were not intended for the required uses. This includes winches, mechanical gearboxes, steering gear, etc...

If Cub Cadet is willing to use a Chinese made engine then they are the ones warranting the quality of that engine for three years, don't you think? It is Cub Cadet that is putting their name on the mower, yes? So it is no longer a no-name engine, it is a "Cub Cadet" engine. Likewise I would have to assume the Q.C. program is from Cub Cadet.

As a small engine mechanic I would have to say I would take the Honda motor over the Tecumseh any day. The GVC 160 is not a top quality Honda motor and does have one or two problems but the overall construction is way above the Tecumseh motor. The biggest favour you can do for that particular Honda motor is to put a thin layer of grease along the underside edge of the air filter to produce a better seal. That motor has a habit of pulling dust and dirt in under the air filter due to a poor air box design.

As for the Chinese Honda knock offs?? Stay well away from them. Most of them you CAN NOT get parts for or even part breakdowns. They may look extremely similar to Hondas but they have a million tiny differences that you can't interchange parts. Finding a source of correct parts for the motors is next to impossible. Even things as mundane as air filters and carburetor kits are not available. If you must buy a Chinese knockoff make sure you buy two. That way you'll have a parts motor too.

I purchased one of the cub cadets with the Chinese engines on it. I have hundreds of hours on it and it still runs perfect, lots of power and starts easy. I have had no problem getting parts for it (tune-up) from the cub cadet dealer. The owners manual comes with a complete parts breakdown. I checked a few of the parts (Dipstick tube, head, block, and valves) and they were all available through cub cadet. Home Depot and walmart stocks the air filter and spark plug. I don't like the fact its made in china but I have nothing buy positive things to say about its performance.

I'll throw in my .02...

Last weekend I returned a GCV 190 Powered MTD to costco and ran across the street and paid about $11 more for a Tecumseh powered Lawn Boy.

2 Reasons, the deck, even though it was stainless was crap. Paper thin, lots of flex and everything else about the mower was cheap, but that's half of the equation.

The 190 was smooth, quiet, powerful, started on the first pull. The problem? A ridiculously over-engineered auto choke return that started to act up after 3 hours total use.

After a close look at the Lawn Boy, I fell in love - other than the engine...what I assumed would be harder to start, would sound like crap compared to the oh so smooth OHC Honda. But I took a chance, the seller has a 90 day return policy.

I fired the sucker up (2nd pull out of the box) when I got home and can honestly say that my worries were unfounded. Sounds good, used as little fuel as the Honda on the first cut and chewed through the grass just as well.

Keep your $100 in your pocket.

Over the last 40+ years, I have owned and done the mechanical work on dozens of small engines on various pieces of equipment, including Briggs, Wisconsin, Kohler, Onan, Tecumseh, McCulloch and Honda. All but the Hondas and Mculloch have proven very reliable and reasonable to buy parts for. I currently own 6 Honda powered pieces of equimpent and I would classify all of them as CRAP. None of them will start readily after sitting a few months, with or without Stabil. It seems that parts cost 2 or 3 times what parts for the others cost. This includes a brand new Honda 2 kW generator costing $1000! I think that all of the hype over Honda being such a superior engine is a clever marketing ploy. I had similar experience with a brand new high end Honda car. Worst new car I ever owned. Let the buyer beware!

I have a yard man motor by mtd, and its powered by honda. I've bought a new shaft and hammered it on and the motor starting to knock because of the shaft. Do you think my engine is worth $250.00 cash? I've put it in the Iwanta over 5 weeks and still nobody hadn't called me. But the motor runs though but may need rebuilding or repaired. I'm trying to get the money for it because I need to save up and get another lawn mower asap. Please let me know what your advise is. Thanks a bunch. Christopher Fuller

WTF?

Double WTF LOL :)

+1 on the WTF

I have found that those honda engines make very good canoe anchors! Might even work for row-boats, too!