I always have liked Snappers mowers and the Quantum Power is a good old solid flathead.

The Honda is a good one as well and the OHC engine is even better.

You pose a real tough decision. My advise if it makes any difference in your area is to go with the one with the best dealer support. Everything has a small potential for having a warrantable repair and they all will need some kind of repair in the distant future. The dealer who best takes care of their customers is the one to go with. If your good dealer sells both, flip a coin.

My opinion is to go with the Honda. I used to be a long time Snapper fan until I had a bad experience with the Snapper and the low engine speed of the B & S. engine. The new Snappers are nowhere near as good as the older Snapper are. I went to a Honda and I am completely, totally satisfied.

I'd go with the Honda just because of the Briggs on the Snapper. I wouldn't have gone Snapper without the Kawi, I don't think.
If Snapper is using the same drive and the same deck and has a Kawi or Honda available, how can they be worse than the old ones?

I've been to 3 dealers here in the OKC area that carry both lines, and the one that spent the most time answering all my questions advised on the Honda. Besides being more dependable, it's a better mulcher in her opinion.

And Snapper's model numbering system is puzzling at best. There are 3-4 different mowers with the same number, but it's the letters in front that determine the options and price. Honda is simpler... one number, one set of options.
So there'll be one(Honda) sitting in my shed very soon.

Hello all.

Snapper RP2167519B: (R)esidential/self (P)ropelled/21" deck/6.75HP/19 Snapper series designation/ (B)riggs & Stratton engine.

Honda HRR216PDA push type. Zero transmission problems.

I like the Snapper Ninja blade system better. Both blade systems get the mulching job done well.

Good day.

Hello again.

Hi cutlas72.

Snapper 2167519B or Snapper RP2167519B.

Why not put one of these Snappers in your nest?

Good day.

I have a Snapper SPV21 and I have been nothing but impressed with it. I don't anticipate having to buy another mower again. My brother has a lawn care business and has been using his push snapper heavily for 3 years with zero problems as well.

The LARGE majority of the lawn businesses use Hondas in my neck o' the woods.
The OP had decided between 2 specific models. It doesn't matter that you like some other model. Else I could go on and on about my 19 year old Honda:-)

Thanks to all who responded... and shouts to rollerzeke for the clarification of the Snapper system.

It seems to be the consensus that although Snapper built a good machine in the past, they've somehow let the quality slip recently. This is what gives me pause. At best I have a total of 2200 sq ft of lawn to mow(frt/bk) so we're not talking heavy-duty usage here, but at the same time I don't want to pay $350-400 for a machine that has inferior quality to one in the same price point.

Which brings me to mattherb... Thanks for inputting the SPV21 into the mix as I hadn't looked closely at it. All 3 dealers I went to only mentioned the 216 model. How long have you had yours? Do you have the regular blade or did you upgrade to the Ninja? Due to my small yard I'm not real excited about the self-propel but if I go with the S21, which is the push version, and then get the bag and Ninja kit, I'm paying the same price. And the SP comes with both those options.

And I thought this decision was made.

Bill...

Don't get me wrong, these models were the ones suggested by local dealers when I described my criteria(small yard, occasional bagging, excellent mulching, dependability, etc...). I'm still open to other models, or even makes. As posted above, I'm going to check out the SPV21 at the dealership and see what it's about. Feel free to add to the mix as I'd like as many opinions possible, especially from those of you in the business.

Again, I'll ask someone to chime in about where Snapper's quality is lower than it was in the past.

This doesn't speak directly to one side or the other of this debate, but it does speak to Snappers continued mindset of quality manufacturing instead of mass-producing inferior products.

If, as it seems, I've posted an untrue rumor RE: Snapper quality, I apologize to all .

Here is a link that might be useful: Walmart...NO!!!

Seems like I spoke to soon. Found this site with Snapper reviewers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Snapper reviews

Cutlas72:

First off, the reviews you posted deal with riding mowers and ZTR's.

I don't know what Mattherb182 has, but I own an old SV-21P. It is the old aluminum (magnesium?) decked self-propelled Snapper that DOES NOT have the rolled under deck lip that is found on the steel decked Snappers.

I picked the SV-21P off a curb before the trash men got to it and had only to replace the flywheel shear key which was slightly indented (Enough to throw off the timing so it wouldn't start for the previous owner.).

I don't know when they quit making this model, but I know it has been more than 20 years and probably closer to 30 years and maybe over 30 years ago.

The engine on it is the Briggs 3.5hp classic and it appears to be original to the mower.

I currently run it with 6 ozs. of engine honey and 14 ozs. of straight 40W oil in it to cut down on the smoking from the well worn engine. With the mixture I have in it, it does not smoke, has good compression (Based on resistance to pulling the starter rope.) and can pull me and the full grass bag like mad unless the wheels spin on slippery surfaces.

When the SV-21P is running, it sounds like there is a tornado going on under the deck.

I also own a 20+ year old steel decked unit with the rolled under lip which was given to me and which I just repowered in 2006 with a new Briggs & Stratton 6.5hp Quantum engine for $160.00.

I have personally owned and used both mowers well over 15 years

Both units pack the grass bag so solid whenever I bag that even with the HUGE rear dump door on the bag, I still have to shake the bag to get the grass out.

The older one has developed a crack by the grass discharge area (Seems to be where most of these old units fail.) and it is not long for this world. I have thought about saving it, but have decided to let it die while I keep my eyes open for another steel decked, self-propelled Snapper that someone foolishly discarded because they didn't do basic maintenance or know how to trouble shoot the extremely small and rare problems that sometime occur even on Snappers.

Yes, I am a huge Snapper fan.

Buy the Snapper self-propelled with bag, mulching cover, generic mulching blade (The "Ninja" blades do not impress me.), and the side discharge chute and you should never have to look back.

Buy the Snapper and quit second guessing yourself.

Fairyprincess

Hello all.

Right on Fairyprincess!
I am also a huge Snapper fan.
Buy the Snapper cutlas72 :)

Good day.

Fairyprincess thanks for the info, but there-in lies the rub...

Almost all good reviews of Snappers I see are of the "my 20-30+ yr old machine still cuts like it came off the dealers floor and I've only spent $10 for maintainence" category, or "I found this Snapper on the curb where some idiot didn't know what he had. Bought a $2 doo-hickey and it's run for 7yrs since". This does speak to dependability, but the company's been bought out since then, so are the same standards kept to? This is the question I have.

And as far as second-guessing, at this point I'm just turning each product inside and out, looking at the pro's and con's of each. And mainly getting input from those who have experience in using said equipment. I tend not to believe in majority rules but do illicit responses from experienced owners, as stated above.

Snapper still makes a SPV21E( also an S21, SP21, SPV21, and an SPV21S) and it's listed on their site. Other than the 6.5 B&S what are the differences in yours and the new one?

And in continuing 3rd guessing myself, I've been looking at the LawnBoy 10694 with it's one-handed bag change, guaranteed start, Toro Atomic mulching blade, 3yr warranty, & Honda OHV/OHC Engine. It recieved a Consumers Guide Best Buy, which I've learned carries more weight on this site than that other consumer mag.

All that to say... I'm still considering my options.

Cutlas72:

One of the disadvantages of going to a site like this is the type of people answering the questions asked by those less capable.

A lot of us are old farts either by virtue of age and/or thinking. A lot of us are also either poor, or just plain cheapskates. We constantly harp about the $50.00 Lazyboy electric lift recliner that cost $1,100.00 new that we buy from Goodwill but neglect to mention that we paid full price of $900.00 for a three piece tool box (A similar Snap-On brand would have cost about $4,000.00.) from Harbor Freight. We obsess and strut around because we buy garden tractors for $200.00 that others buy new for $7,000.00 but we conveniently (Not intentionally.) forget to mention we have $20,000.00 in equipment lying around in various stages of repair and we buy multiple tractors/mowers so that instead of changing the mower deck height, we just drive another mower that has that height already set on it. We also have different tractors for different snow conditions, parades, contests, and amusement in general.

I have seen and handled brand new Snapper steel decked, self-propelled mowers in the dealers show rooms when I go to buy the occasional part that I may need. The decks and drive mechanisms are the same design, weight, dimensions, and physical integrity of my personal old steel decked unit. Hell, most of the parts from my old aluminum decked unit will fit on my newer steel decked unit which means they will fit on the newest steel decked units. The grass bags, bag chute, mulching cover, and side discharge are the same in size and physical integrity.

The only major difference in the new series is the new overhead valve engines. I have flathead engines on my Snappers and the 6.5hp Briggs Quantum I repowered my steel decked unit with is also a flathead even though I could have purchased an overhead valved engine for only a little more money. I like to go with what I am familiar with and which has proven itself to me. I will probably be long dead and buried before this Quantum engine gives up the ghost.

Now about consumers magazines of all brands and types. My most recent Popular Mechanics did a survey this month reviewing battery powered screwdrivers. Despite their mechanical knowledge, they didn't give torque ratings for the screwdrivers. This pissed me off because they should know better. The majority of the people that respond to consumer surveys don't know squat about mechanics so I don't put a lot of value in magazine surveys.

The fact that todays Snapper self-propelled is the same (Except the engine.) as my 20+ year old personal unit and the fact that the head of Snapper said "NO TO WAL-MART" tells me that the mower design is great and the new engines are the only thing to consider and since the engines on all new lawn mowers are the same, look out for the companies that always seem to be changing their mower designs.

Buy the SNAPPER!

Fairyprincess

Cutlas, I wasn't calling you out when I was asking someone to show me where Snapper's quality has gone down. I hope I didn't come across that way, and I apologize if I did. I am actually somewhat serious when I ask that question, because I don't know if their quality has gone down. I just look at mine and can't really see anything cheap on it....but maybe it does have cheaper stuff. I know there are those on this board that have said Snapper's quality is down and I want to know why they think that. That will help me to know what to watch for, potentially.

I absolutely love mine, and I would not get a B&S on mine, but obviously others have had great luck with theirs. I just haven't seen it with the ones people have around here. It is probably a maintenance issue in some ways, so don't let that sway you. Of course, mine is a higher end Snapper and is commercial, but I was willing to pay that price after my box brand experience and that of people I know. Maybe I will be a fool for doing it.

OK, OK, I give...

I went today and bought the SNAPPER! After re-thinking the WalMart article and the implications therein(potentially fewer sales because of refusal to lower quality), then talking to the dealer again, who sells all 3 lines I was considering, I just felt that the Snapper was the right decision.

Then after laying out the $470 inc. tax and Ninja kit. I come home and get confirmation from the Fairyprincess that the deck design, quality, weight, bag, etc... is the same as it was 20yrs ago. I do believe I've made the right purchase.

Took it out and broke it in on my smallish back yard and it bagged beautifully. Did not put the Ninja on, just used the standard blade. Now if I can just figure out when the bag is full before it starts clogging the chute...;-)

But seriously... thanks to all who helped me in the obsessive search of my first walking mower. Especially Fairyprincess, rollerzeke, and colosilverado.

Cutlas72:

There are two ways to know the bag needs emptying.

One way is to tap the side of the bag and you will eventually develop a "feel" for the right time to empty.

The other way is when grass starts coming out from under the mower. Waiting for the grass to come out from under the mower makes removing the bag a little harder but still doable. I shut down the engine when I empty the bag because even at idle, the blade will still blow the contents out of the chute.

You know, now that I spent so much time telling you about the great points about the Snapper that I don't think about when I am using it, I am going to back track and repair the crack on my oldest Snapper. I initially figured I would have to silver braze the crack to maintain the integrity of the deck. Reading on one of the posts on another forum about how well JB Weld works on the aluminum deck of an old Lawn Boy, I am going to clean my deck, drill a 1/8" "stop hole" at the end of the crack, pop rivet a small washer on both sides of the deck through the "stop hole", and JB Weld the crack on the inside and outside of the deck.

I won't have to worry about the engine blowing up on it because I have 2 old Briggs 3.5hp Classics that run well and one that burns a lot of oil sitting on my spare parts shelves. All of the engines have the correct size shaft for the Snapper self-propelled models.

So you see, even though I didn't need to buy a new engine when the one on my steel decked Snapper gave up the ghost, I figured my old Snapper and my old self deserved a brand new engine.

I believe that not only will you be extremely happy with your purchase, but you will become a fervent believer when you put your mower side by side with some of your neighbors other brands.

I always cut grass at the second highest notch because I like tall lush grass. If you "scalp" your lawn, keep the yard flat for longer blade sharpness and to avoid "jamming" your blade into something that could bend your crankshaft.

Congratulations!!

Fairyprincess

Thanks, princess for helping me down the straight and narrow to the Snapper! I'll keep that grass-shooting-from-under-the-mower deal in mind, though. ;-)

I'll be laying Zoysia in the front yard and have Bermuda in the back, so other than the first mowing's in the spring I'll normally be mulching.

Also... what type of grass do you have? My understanding is that both Zoysia and Bermuda like to be kept between 1-1.5" in height to get that "putting green" look. I did scalp the back today to 1) pick up all the old grass clippings and debris, and 2) to to put down some Weed-B-Gone. Next will be a balanced fert in a week or so.

Thanks again for your help.

Hello all.

Hi cutlas72. Glad you picked Snapper.

Now, for the turf grass answers please go to the Lawn care forum or the Organic lawn care forum.
If you thought you were over run with opinions here, you ain't seen nothing yet. Just post a turf grass question at those lawn care forums. They have some VERY good advice.
Have fun.

Good day.

Hello cutlas72. I didn't mean to butt into your type of grass question for Fairyprincess.

Sorry.

Hey zeke, not a problem.

Believe me when I say I've been all over the lawn care forum just to decide on the Zoysia. I was just curios as to the princess' grass type due to her mowing height.

One more point on the Snapper... even though I bagged today using the standard blade, the clippings were cut-up very fine. I can't wait to see how it does with the NINJA on board!!

Cutlas72:

First the important stuff; Fairyprincess is a HE. HE is also an Italian born straight heterosexual with a wry sense of humor which is why HE calls HIMSELF Fairyprincess. HE has this naturally curly hair that flows over HIS shoulders and after all the ribbing HIS friends give HIM, HE figures HIS screen moniker will give them something more to giggle about.

Don't sweat it as I get a lot of static and innuendo about my screen name.

I'm up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and the slim Kentucky Bluegrass rules up here in our neighborhood.

I'm up in years, but I still like to walk barefoot in the grass and the tall thick growing 3.5" to 4" Kentucky Bluegrass just feels so nice running between my toes and forming the soft cushion under my feet.

Yeah, I know it sounds kind of prissy but at my age I know what I am about and none of my friends trusts me alone with their wives.

I would cut at the highest setting, but when I set it that high I don't get as much suction to pull the grass upright for a clean even cut. I am thinking of putting a "skirt" extension around the bottom of my deck so that I can cut at the highest setting, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

Sorry, I can't advise you on your grass choices and if your grass is coarse chances are I wouldn't enjoy walking barefoot through it like I do on my Kentucky Bluegrass.

Good luck!

Fairyprincess

And this is the main reason I normally don't make assumptions RE: gender when posting on forums. I didn't mean to offend, and it sounds like I didn't. Sounds like you have a very good sense of humor.

I've heard about the texture and look of the KBG turf, but here in Oklahoma, where it burns up in the summer(100+) and freezes in the winter, these are only rumors. Bermudas pretty nice to walk on barefoot if it's a dense, healthy stand and I'm soon to find out about the Zoysia.

Well thanks again for all of your help, it was truly appreciated. And sorry once again for the mis-genderfication(is that a word???). :-D

I hope this thread is still alive. I am just starting my search for a new walk behind and have seen a lot of recommendations for the Snapper RP2167519B and the SPV21S.

Which one did you go with and why? They look comparable, so was there something about the one you chose to go with? Anybody else have an opinion?

Thanks!

Other than the casters on the SPV, they look the same to me.

I didn't go with the models you are looking at and went with what I did because I wanted no part of B&S anymore. That is just due to my personal experience with B&S Quantums and your results may be totally different.

I have the caster/swivel wheel kit and I decided to remove it and go back to the standard wheels. I couldn't get the setup the way I wanted it. I will be checking to see if I can return them or sell them.
I will caution you that if you get the SPV21S, you might not be able to remove the casters and order a standard front end if you decide you don't like the casters down the road. My mower is commercial and those are the only ones that can switch back and forth, from what I am told. I can't tell from the pictures of the 21S as to whether the casters are welded on, but I am pretty sure that the standard front end is welded on all models other than commercial units. The casters on that model might be in the same boat.

I do love my Snapper though. I love the transmission and the control of it. I tap that engagement handle to pop it forward in little lunges while maneuvering around obstacles. That tranny will really snap that mower forward....instantly. It is very nice and should be mentioned more in the attributes people are giving the Snappers. It has impressed me almost as much as the FJ180V. That is in direct contrast to the tranny on the HRX217TDA Honda that my dad has that has to decide for a few seconds as to what engaging the drive means it should do. Of course, I've already said what I think of the Kawasaki.

I do hope you do your homework and get something that you really want, regardless of brand and what we say. I knew what I wanted and was willing to pay for it. I would have kicked myself and longed for something else if I would have 'settled' on something.

Last year I moved from a home with a 7200 sq ft lot to a 20,000 sq ft lot. Well my 12 year old Murray was already on its last legs even though the old B&S was still running strong, other mower parts kept going out nearly everytime I would attempt to cut the lawn. So I started researching the latest mowers and what was available in my area.

I decided on the Snapper RP216019KWV. 21" Self Propelled Mulching deck with the 6hp Kawasaki with bag!

The self propel mechanism (disc drive) looks simple and is reliable. Snapper has been using it for decades. As has been pointed out the majority of the mower looks the same as much older models and many parts seem to remain the same as they were years ago.

That was two of the major selling points for me considering I now have 3 times the grass to cut and spend that much more time running the mower. The quality, and the availability of the actual parts for the mower. Those generic parts at the big retailers dont always cut it, and trying to find the right part for a mower that had a 2 year production run 5 years later can be like finding a needle in a haystack. Other than the Oil Filter and oil when I changed my oil after the break in I havent needed anything other than gas.

And so far in the past year the Snapper has mulched everything I could throw at it like a food processor on wheels. Even the high grass and weeds and leaves near the wooded area at the back of my property if I let that bit go for 2 weeks. Or the thicker grass in the front when I cut a notch lower some weeks to get all of the white clover flowers. No clumping, no tall weeds with big leaves shreaded up and strewn about. Everything is chopped up fine and left looking nice and neet. No need for a broom, rake, or blower.

Also the 6hp Kawasaki FJ180 is a nice commercial quality small engine, and yes like your car it comes with a small can oil filter. Designed and built to be run several hours daily in commercial operations. That consumer grade Honda GCV160 isnt, though it is a nice dependable engine. It isnt the commercial grade Honda GXV160. Which on a self propelled Honda would have cost me twice the money!

It seems like there are some pretty avid Snapper fans on this thread. I love mine too! Still a bit green though (bought mine used for $50 from a coworker). I'm hoping for some advice. I have an older 21" snapper and I've been experiencing a slight loss in power. Wondering if there are any changes that I can make to help out. Fairyprincess mentioned "Engine honey" - I generally burn some oil too - is this something that could help with compression and power? Any other suggestions?

I'm also in the market for a new blade. What is the verdict on the Ninja Kits? Are they any good or is there something else that I should buy?

FInally, does anyone have any experience with the "Thatcherizer" attachment? Too good to be true? I'm afraid the mower isn't heavy enough to get the traction necessary to push the thing. Also, if someone has used that attachment, does it increase wear on the gears/pulleys?

Thanks everyone - great thread!!!

Grey

Ggreenwald:

The mower is a hefty 90+ pounds and can easily push the front mounted "thatcherizer" that Snapper makes for their mowers. The disc tranny is a kick @$$ powerhouse and will not wear out because of using that accessory.

Start by adding 4 ozs of "engine honey" (Same stuff but you pay for the STP name.) or STP with your next oil change. As I have stated before, my engine is the original 27 year old unit and I use 6 ozs of "engine honey" and 14 ozs of straight 40W (Briggs recommends the straight 30W but my engine needs all the lube help it can get at this stage of its fantastically long life.). My Briggs Classic 3.5hp takes 20 ozs of oil and your engines requirements may be different, so get a manual and measure carefully.

Make sure you use 4 ozs less oil as you should NEVER overfill your crankcase. If that takes care of the problem, stick with it with every oil change.

Buy a new air filter which should perk up your engine quite a bit and if it doesn't, you may have carb adjustment issues to deal with or tranny springs or rubber driven wheel adjustment or replacement needs.

Fairyprincess

Thanks for the info Fairypricess. Much appreciated! I do have a couple more questions though. You mention replacing the air filter. I thought about this during maintenance last fall but nothing was mentioned in the manual (http://public.snapper.com/Manuals/manuals/22668.pdf) and I couldn't find access to one on the mower. Any thoughts here?

You also mentioned that you know your model takes 20oz oil. Again, the manual I found doesn't have any good info on this. It simply says to fill to the FULL line on the dipstick (but no higher). Any suggestions on that?

Finally - any comments on the Ninja blades?

Thanks a ton!

Grey

P.S. I'm trying to locate a Thatcherizer attachment and will be trying it out soon.

Fairyprincess:

Found some other posts from you (lot's a good reading out there - and recent posts too!) and have a follow up question. I wonder if maybe I'm heading in the wrong direction with the Thatcherizer.

You wrote:
The old engine runs smooth and is powerful enough to utilize a dethatcher blade that I attach to the bottom of the cutting blade. Using the mower in this fashion allows me to bag at the same time I am dethatching the lawn.

I'm wondering if you can send a link to the type of dethatching blade that you're referring to? Or do you know where you picked it up? I'm also interested to know how you thought of attaching two blades at once to the mower. I would have thought that could create balance issues or additional wear.

Thanks again.

Grey

Ggreenwald:

YOU are going to have to find the manual for the engine on your mower to determine the amount of oil it requires.

Briggs and Tecumseh both provide free information regarding their engines, oil capacity, and filter information.

Now, about the dethatcher I use; I have included a link at the end of this post.

I used to use the dethatcher blade by itself, but constantly ran into stalling and low power issues because the dethatcher blade is so light in weight.

Since the blades on all lawnmowers act as a weighted flywheel, I reasoned that running the dethatcher in conjunction with the regular blade would mitigate the problems I was having.

I was right because when running the dethatcher blade with the regular blade, I had plenty of power and stalling problems came to an end.

Please remember that excessively high spots or other obstacles WILL STILL stall or stop the blade. YOU will have to experiment to see how low to adjust the mower to do a good dethatching job. I wear out a set of springs each year and they should be disposed of once the tip is too worn out and the shock absorbing flex of the spring is lost.

This year I am going to experiment with a 20" blade attached to the bottom of my 21" blade to increase the vacuum effect in hopes of picking up bigger heavier stuff without resorting to lowering the deck height.

I don't know the math or physics of the slightly heavier weight acting as a flywheel, but so far, the added weight of the dethatcher blade has not caused anything out of the ordinary to happen and the engine still starts, runs, and stops without any unusual behavior.

DO NOT mount the dethatcher blade perpendicular to the cutting blade as the weight of one may cancel the flywheel effect of the other.

I put bolts through the dethatcher blades two holes that are out from the mounting hole. When I butt the bolts against the cutting blade, the blades cross each other at an angle.

I butt the bolts protruding through the dethatcher blade (Make sure that the blades are flat against each other and not hanging up on the bolt threads or nuts.) up against the cutting blade and then tighten the mounting bolt with the outside diameter of the cupped washer (You had better have a cupped washer, otherwise buy a new one.) pressing against the blade to hold both blades in place.

Good luck!

Fairyprincess

Here is a link that might be useful: This is the dethatcher blade I use and I change the springs every year.