Ewalk, it's like you and Ray are sitting at the bar w/ a couple of biers and bowl on peanuts between you! I've got about 5 or 6 bulletins on these XT chokes. RE: what the heck kind of choke system do I have, altitude issues +3500, heat up kits for the thermostat etc. If Ray wants a manual choke, Cub had them on those little 19 inchers, may have been Powermores, but it would be a nice cable. I wonder if increasing the float level a tad would help....

Hey Tom enjoying Spring yet Bud ? Yeah these Courage kept me busy for a few yrs lol. Rays scenario is the exception to rule i observed . His no start "HOT" would appear to be a lean fuel condition cause . However his concern of valve train issues can,t be overlooked , although I would think his engine would further display the other routine lash symtoms. Other than the increasing the float level as you suggest I am at a loss , yeah the old manual chokes or primers are so much simpler lol . I have replaced approx a dozen therm O Choke assemblies on these Kohlers over 10 yrs and 25-30 engines through the shop for everyday servicing . The upgraded assembly is much stouter in design has solved the fail open issues . Hopefully Ray will get back to us when he has time to verify his valve lash , he appears to have a sound understanding of small engines and not at all a novice , hopefully he tops up the peanuts and beer , Cheers !

I’m sure it did sound like that. One thought as i was looking at the choke replacement It it’s adjustable. At the top of the choke arm you can adjust It. Wonder if any got bounced during shipping. Could cause some people issues. Mine once it’s warmer I’m going to manually pull the choke on see if that helps the hot start problem. No grass to try it on as of yet. Then I’ll throw a manual choke pull on it. Otherwise the mower is a monster I’ve run it through thick foot tall grass and it gobbles it without stalling.

Absolutely Ray can,t hurt with the adjustment tab . I agree for a 149cc engine they match the 160cc & 180cc cutting abilities . I use to mulch with my old one but towards the end I primarily bagged and the high dome deck provided plenty of suction . I now have a full commercial Toro 22298 with the Kawi Kai it's a monster for a self propelled push mower . Keep us posted Bud ! P.S. Did you ever clean the internal fuel filter within the fuel tank as illustrated by Ray84 in his comments within the above thread ? It is very small it may be marginally restricted causing a vacuum flow condition upon HOT start up conditions when the choke is open !

I just bought this mower 2 hours ago, went to change the bag and now will not start. This is ridiculous.

I wish I would have seen these reviews first.

open air filter Spray starter fluid or gas in that will start it. When you are cutting and need to bag change let it idle without cutting any Gras for 20 seconds. It should start fine each time. That seemed to work best for me. Your mileage may vary.

I have a 2 year old Toro 20374. Starts, runs a few seconds and shuts off. Found out on YouTube to clean the carburetor bowl and check the float because they are having problems with them sticking. Put it back together and it ran. But gas is dripping from the carburetor bowl. I has to replace a 2inch in diameter rubber O ring. The part is not on any schematic!! I called Toro Home Office. Absolute waste of time. I went to a dealer and had to pay $25 for a gasket kit and new float. Put the new (49 cent) gasket in. Mower runs sporadically. I am not telling you the number of times I have tried to get the O ring in place. It must be perfect which is near impossible to accomplish. I do not see gas leaking. But after the mower sits a few days, the tank is empty. The gas totally evaporated or leaked out some way. Totally disgusted!! Toro could care less!! I have purchased Toro mowers my entire adult life as my Dad did also. Don't know what to try next. The repair shop wants $80 to pick it up. And it will be in the shop a month. The repair shop apparently is not aware that Spring comes every year. Hire some help!!!

hi, a lot of people are going to disagree, but you'll save a lot of time and aggravation by just getting a new carb. did you take the carb off, did you mess with the float?

The main jet is in the stem of the carb. That is what needs to be cleaned if there is sufficient flow to the carb. Hire some help? Do you think every April they import boatloads of techs from the Bahamas and ship them back in fall...Or where are they hiding? ;)

You tell them Mr Tomplum , I think I will buy some shares in offshore carbs . New carb every 3 weeks should keep the oriental express thriving ! lol.

Every job has a skill set! Let's see. You could be a tax consultant through mid April. Put on your apron and be an OPE mechanic from then until it slows down. By then you could work in the fields harvesting, depending on your location. Back to OPE if you live in snow country or you could maybe play pro football...

Ok ... So I have had my Toro recycler 22' With the Kohler Engine. I have had no problems at all in the past. This April I saw the first major inconvenience. Mower runs fine until I stop to change the bag. Than it will not start at all. I tried cleaning out the air filter and replaced the spark plug and changed the oil and added Seafoam to the new gas. nothing I did helped. the machine still seemed to starving for gas at the start until it cooled down then it ran fine. So I cheated. I stuck a small stick to close the choke while I Started it then pulled it off after it starts. It works fine when I do that. .....So What is the problem???? I don't know, I guess I'll have to take the choke apart and clean it to see if the auto choke is sticking

.help ... I hope it works

You need to adjust the auto choke , it may be dirty or beginning to seize up from age . The mechanism is adjustable , so you can clean and lubricate and then adjust if required ?

I've got a B&S with the auto choke, starts on the first pull cold, but kill it when hot and it won't start. The choke is open all the way and it needs a shot of gas or carb spray to start when hot. So here I am looking for solutions. Thank you God for the corn farmers, their lobbyists and ethanol gas, it's provided a steady stream of small engines with easy fixes.

Only thing I’ve found is if you let it run on a cut section of Grass 10 seconds mine will start 9 out of 10 times While hot. If its stopped while cutting it won’t start with out starter fluid. If you could close the choke manually I’d imagine you could start it.

Roscoe it sounds like the little orifice at the entrance of the carb may be plugged. Remove the air filter and near the base of the bore look for the small brass insert and ensure that the little hole is open.

I have a 6yr old Toro 20383. No problem until a couple of days ago. Got half the back yard done when the engine began to sputter and lost power. I let it idle and it died. I thought, "Oh out of gas". No, Half a tank. Tried to restart, didn't work. Checked for spark, no spark, ah, bad coil or wire. Half hour later it started right up and nearly finished mowing when it started to spatter and die. Again, no spark. What? Choke problem AND coil????

Likely water or debris in the fuel. Can you pull the carburetor bowl off and have a look? You can take the straw from a carb spray can and get it dead center to blow through the main. Either that or buy a 23 " Toro next time. I hear they start better. Never saw a no start thread a mile long on those....

Have a Toro with Kohler engine 2011 22 inch auto-choke same issue. Pulled off carb/float bowl thing and wiped out cleaned and now it works. Worked pretty well for last few years. Going to hire a lawn service now - America used to be about the DIYer people, now everything made outside the country and a service economy got to pay for people to do it. Sad.

sorry, small engine novice here and I need a little advice please; I've got a 23" Toro recycler with the Kohler engine, that is "guaranteed to start".... I bought it maybe 2-3 years ago, and it worked fine for a few months, then it wouldn't start. Carb was gummed up, so cleaned it out and added fuel stabilizer. it worked a few months then stopped starting again. Completely cleaned it out, changed filters, drained tanks and refilled new, even put in a new plug in because, why not? It worked for a few months, then it didn't. Basically every couple of months I've gotta clean the carburetor out. I live in California, so ethanol free gas is a rare find, usually everything is ~10%. The manual says 10% or less ethanol should be ok. When not in use, it has been stored in a wood shed in the backyard.
I'm tired of cleaning out the damned thing. Do you think replacing the carb would do anything, or do I just toss the whole thing and conform to California and get a POS electric mower? Thanks...

how much use does it get? I just had a problem with mine 22" Kohler engine - and when I sprayed into the auto-choke with carb cleaner that fixed it...

$ 6 bottle of Startron and problems solved as to efuel issues !

@Bruce; every other week in the warmer months and probably every two to three weeks when it's colder.
@ssewalk1; thanks, much appreciated. I will definitely give that a try.

Bruce , just a additional info since you have the 149 cc Kohle r engine , @ the top of this thread Ray84 illustrated the small fuel filter within the fuel tank attached to the fuel line . Ensure it is clean , just a little gum or debris will restrict it and cause hard starting also . The newer Kohle r models have a much stouter internal fuel filter or inline filter !

for any one who owns a toro 149cc guarantee start mower that wont start here is what u do.on top of carburetor there is linkage that goes to the exhaust .by the carburetor push it with your finger to the front of mower you Will feel it click then start it up never fails for me .it must be getting stuck for some reason haven't figured that part out yet

597 , the linkage your referring to is the choke pull off linkage , which controls the choke position thermostatically . Apparently your issue is auto choke related , unfortunately numerous causes are involved within the various complaints within this thread . Your issue appears often a few yrs down the road due to the therm o components failing or binding due to age , the bimetal coil unwind when heated by the muffler heat to provide liner movement to open the choke and contracts to close the choke when muffler cools . The most prevalent cause of these complaints is ethanol fuel related . You failed to indicate if your no start condition was primarily Cold or Hot start problem ? Thanks for sharing your personal resolution , with the forum , much appreciated !

Seriously. I just noticed this thread is from 2013. Wondered when I saw the type of mower he was describing. For anyone just finding this thread, the problem is a dirty carburetor. The previous owner left gas in the mower. The gas dried. The resulting residue in the carburetor is clogging the tiny holes that the gas must pass through to get into the engine. It is a relatively simple process to clean the carb. Look on youtube for your model. If your engine is the Briggs and Stratton with the plastic carb, be sure to pop out the white plastic part inside the carb. That part is actually two pieces. Wiggle them apart so you can access the jets - the part with the tiny holes I mentioned. Cleaning a carb is an easy thing that pretty much anyone can handle if you have a socket set, $2 for carb cleaner at walmart and can follow a youtube video.

John , read the entire thread before you provide redundant blanket solutions , the engines of concern are Kohlers , Tecumseh not just Briggs & Stratton. The carburetors are not plastic mostly white metal & stamped steel . Also the causation of complaint are various . Primarily Efuel related , however some auto choke and perhaps valve lash adjustment issues have contributed to the Toro no start owner complaints . You must take each individual op,s complaint on it own merits to accurately provide valid recommendations . P.S. The tiny part with the holes is the metering bolt on the Tecumseh or emulsion tube on most other small engines which distributes the fuel mixture to the primary main jet and the secondary primer circuits , yes these holes and the jets can become restricted by various forms of debris , gel , sludge or efuel waxing which is the most prevalent today . All this has been discussed previously with utube downloads etc. within this thread . So why duplicate this info , new info would be more beneficial !

You win ewalk. The 100th commenter . Though the grand prize is probably some knock off carb that won't run ....

Toro 20383 Coil.........The machine runs fine for 45 minutes, sputters, I let it idle and it dies. Will not restart until half an hour has passed. Runs great again then problem returns. Is it possible the coil overheats and and won't restart until it cools a bit? The engine is a Toro 159cc 6 year old mower.. Also, when hot, the choke plate is half way between wide open and closed.

George , you are most likely correct in that your coil is breaking down . The throttle plate position you describe can be adjusted if needed . @tomplum , just what I need another chinaclone carb yeehaw !

George. have you checked the gas cap? If the vent is clogged, it won't let gas into the engine. Poke the little hole with a paper clip or pin. Also, the choke should be full open. Check to make sure gunk isn't stopping it from moving all the way.

John, thanks for the reply. The gas cap is vented. The choke plate is controlled by linkage to the thermostat at the top of the muffler. It seems to operate freely. I would assume the choke plate would be fully open when the engine was hot. It isn't. The reason there's a no start when hot is no spark from the coil. The mower has to sit for a half hour or so before it will start. I hate throwing parts at this, I'll start with replacing the coil. $36

George , this thermostat controlled auto choke engine is set lean from the factory . The choke plates will not be fully open often when warmed up they will be partially closed to ensure proper air / fuel mixture ratio . As I previously stated they are adjustable to allow proper choke adjustment point as therm o choke unit ages . The coil replacement would be where to start in my opinion !

ssewalk1 I just noticed your response to my first comment. I was referring to the original post by enigma7. Problem was a lack of fuel issue caused by a dirty carb. I've repaired over 100 of these mowers and have 20 or so at my shop at the moment. Tecumseh, Briggs, Kohler, etc. You didn't read my comment if you think I was just referring to Briggs. And I figured the bit about cleaning the plastic carb was some new info. Guy tossed one last week - told me it needed a new carb. I picked it up, fixed it in 20 minutes and sold it the next day for $125. Look, I know how to fix mowers. Start simple. End complex. Like the guy here with the running hot problem. Could be a failing coil. Sure. But, start with gas cap. The spark plug - correct plug? failing plug? Did he check for spark when hot or just guessing? Was the spark blue, orange, etc? Find out why the choke doesn't open, perhaps making it run rich, or is it supposed to run that way? (Never saw a push mower choke that didn't open all the way.) FYI, the manufacturers narrow the jets to make them run lean. Closing the carb makes it run rich, not lean. (Saw that comment on here.) Onward with the simple stuff. Clean the carb. (I've seen plenty of mowers that won't start hot because the carb was dirty.) Check the exhaust. Check the blade. Is it packed with grass under the deck? Is the grass too thick for the mower to handle? Once you check the simple stuff, think complex. Frankly, Houzz sent me a notification about this thread. I don't need the info and wasn't a member and feel like it was a waste of time. I fix every mower that comes my way. Good luck.

John , you apparently just cannot read . I have been a member of this forum for over 15 yrs and working on everything from mowers to chainsaws and trimmers and snowblowers etc for over 35 yrs so I know small engines as do Sax , Tomplum , and baymee etc . As for this problem with kohlers you don,t bother wasting time with gas cap air vent restrictions , when experience and symptoms obviously dictates the problem with George's 159 Toro is coil related , although just loosening the cap would validate your position , rather than advising someone to poke at the rubber air vent poppet ., when compressed air is safer option , if actually required , which George has indicated was not . Further the problem described by enigma,s 2013 149 kohler again has been recognized as ethanol related fuel restrictions due to a fouled internal fuel filter or carburetor fuel circuits . This is a well known issue with both the 149 and 159 Series engines that have lean burn epa style carbs and which carb choke plates are set to be 1/4 closed to compensate by enriching the air fuel mixture accordingly . If you had read the thread entirely you would know I personally have had 3 toro,s over the yrs all with kohler engines so I recognize their traits . Have a new commercial Toro Kawasaki powered unit currently however have serviced numerous Briggs and Tec and Suzuki powered Toro s over the past 20 plus yrs so your preaching to the choir . If you intend on returning to this forum please refrain from duplicating topic matter , which has already been covered ... This thread is historically long already . Good luck too you also !

Good grief gentlemen and ladies, how about a little humility? I for one appreciate the detailed posts, great stuff - just add a measure of forgiveness into your lives and realize that texting/blogging is a bit flying blind. OK, group hug :))

What you don't know Bruce is that Ewalk and John have a secret pact to get this thread to 200 posts by the end of the summer. I hear that there is a case of Molson riding on it....

Bruce more importantly , have you thought that personal time is taken to assist people such as yourself troubleshoot your concerns . I advised you that your concern could be caused or contributed to a tiny internal fuel filter that can become fouled by invisable efuel film , never did receive a reply back . Ray84 took the time to send a concise pic of the filter . He and I along with other very experienced forum members contribute diligently to expedite resolution to various member concerns . Unfortunately disagreements do occur , comes with the territory , all good . However although I agree with the principle of the kiss system of trouble shooting , experience dictates certain cures for each individual manufacturer and engine model condition . You were fortunate that a simple float bowl cleaning and inlet needle valve and jet cleaning resolved your issue , had the internal fuel filter also have been compromised you would and still may in the future have runability issues with efuel use without fuel conditioner usage . P.S humility is highly over rated , although hugs accepted ! :) . P.S.S. @ tomplum at this rate perhaps 2 cases Bud !

Wow what a post. Succinctly hit upon much. I think it's the power of humility! Power is perfected in weakness (pause, take a breathe). And I am not seeing humility barely make the ratings in our world today ssewalk1! It cannot be over rated. I did go through the posts and grab some of those items for future reference (copy/paste into a Word doc my friend). Thank you! Would love to send a cold one to you, and John, and more... :)

Bruce , what ever gets you through the day Bro...Cudo,s !

Omg. I live in FL. Hotter than blazes. New mower. Used maybe 1/2 dozen tim. Guaranteed to start my petard! Tried today 60 times. Never again. I just want it to work NOW!

If we work hard at it, we can get "petard" back into the populace as it once was. . .

Im working on a 2014 Toro XT6715-2070 149cc engine where its having issues on warm up. After starting it will run well for about 30 to 40 seconds or so then start to stumble for about 10 seconds, then runs OK for about 20 seconds, then goes back an forth doing this for about two and a half minutes then just starts to run well from then on. After its ran for about 6 minutes it still does not fully open the choke butterfly. The carb is a new OEM carb and I pulled the fuel filter to eliminate any possible issues with fuel restriction. The air filter is also new. Iv had this on other identical mowers and have not yet found a solution. The choke is one of these that mount directly the muffler and is the size of about a fifty cent piece that mounts flat on the muffler. It does not appear to be adjustable in any way. if I hold the choke rod open fully I do not experience this issue. Im sure Ill see this again so if anyone has any information for me that would be most helpful.

Most choke plates don't open as far as you think they would on these. Some about a 1/3 rd or so and run good. Especially on the L shaped choke stats and their version of a choke pull off. when you see those. Sometimes you can pull the black lever end and rotate it slightly , but it should have a new stat. When ever you have good fuel flow, know that you also need to have a good vent. So for a test you can try with the vapor return hose removed and verify that your gaskets are installed properly.

I think the problem guys is the B & S engine . THEY ARE JUNK . I didn't realize TORO USED them n. I inherited the toro 20374 from my BIL and it has the same problem. starts fine cold then dies when hot . Doesn't TORO CARE about its reputation ? Luckily I have a HUSQUARA with a HONDA ENGINE that runs like a deer ! I try to stickl with HONDA or KOHLER on all my stuff that burns gas. AMEN TORO you lost 5 customers ( me and my 4 kids ).

P.S. btw B & S used to be made in MILWAUKEE where I live . NOW I think they make most in CHINA ??

By the way most B & S engine have leaky carbs sooner or later .

If it runs for a few seconds then dies, it's most likely a clogged air filter. Remove the filter and see if it runs any differently without.

It's the carburetor. the government puts ethynol in the fuel and the chinese make the carbs. 1 season with fuel left in it will destroy your carburetor.

Rob

Small Engine Masters